Does improvisation interest you?

[Derek]

I'm just curious to know how many people on pianoforum are interested in improvisation even to listen to.

[xvimbi]

I have recently started to improvise. Very simple, just a few chords in one hand, and a simple melody in the other. I find myself generating slow New-Age music, simply because I can't improvise fast yet. It's so New-Age that I almost fall asleep while I play

Seriosuly, it is indeed very relaxing, but at the same time, I do find myself thinking about what I am playing. For example, I think about intervals, which ones sound good in the given context, what sequences would do to the melody, which chord goes well with the melody and which doesn't. I even find myself incorporating snippets from various pieces that I have learned in the past, such as a fast run or a particular chord sequence. It's a lot of fun, while also being very educational, and I am also creating something that nobody has played before (or so I think).

It's a completely different ball-o-wax. Surprise yourself!

[stevie]

improvisation is a forgotten art in many styles and genres of music, and i am extremely passionate about reviving it.

cziffra was an INCREDIBLE improviser, he is my favourite, his style is uniquely virtuosic and multi-textured, an amazing kaleidoskope-like variety of sounds.

also, there is some recent interest in improvising, i believe the pianist-composer fazil say does it.

also, rzewski calls for an improvised cadenza in his most famous piano work, marc-andre hamelin tackles this challenge and recorded an improvised cadenza on his CD recording, and i also have a live video of him playing it with an obviously completely different cadenza in japan.

in the latest issue of 'pianist' magazine , which i recieved just a few days ago, there is an article about pianists who do both jazz and classical, and in particular i was interested in steven osborne's comments.
this guy plays liszt, messiaen, alkan, etc, but also loves playing and improvising jazz, including the 'composed jazz' by the composer nikolai kapustin.

the really interesting thing was that he actually PROGRAMs 'free improvisations' in many of his concerts.

so in the middle of a recital with the usual liszt, messiaen, etc. he plays a completely unique free improvisation....very BRAVE, and exciting!

[Derek]

xvimbi, thats really awesome. That's more or less how I started improvising, just some simple chord patterns and new agey style melodies in the other hand. Just keep pushing the limits!!

stevie, I've heard some of cziffra's improvisation. it is indeed very impressive virtuosic-wise.

[stevie]

xvimbi, thats really awesome. That's more or less how I started improvising, just some simple chord patterns and new agey style melodies in the other hand. Just keep pushing the limits!!

stevie, I've heard some of cziffra's improvisation. it is indeed very impressive virtuosic-wise.

and musically, i have listened alot to his improvisations, they are musically amazing too.

the technical fireworks are the most immediately obvious thing, but beyond that there is an amazing command of rhythmic and melodic variation, and harmonic colouring.

remember, he was also a jazz pianist, when he had to make a living in budapest.

there is only 1 known recording of him playing jazz, tea for two, it is mind-boggling and incredibly unique.

[happyface94]

Mozart improvised a lot of his Concerto Cadenzas, I have no idea how he could do that.

[stevie]

Mozart improvised a lot of his Concerto Cadenzas, I have no idea how he could do that.

well, he was a musical genius, what do you expect?

many modern pianists are starting to do the same, i even heard stephen hough(i think it was him..) play his own jazzy cadenza for one.

[prometheus]

When you improvise it is very hard or even impossible to get that perfect planned shape European classical music is so famous for. But the sacrifice has a gain. You can express a lot more than by playing someone elses music. Improvising is like musical meditation.

[Derek]

prometheus: Yes, that's a good point. Do we even WANT to emulate composed music when we improvise? Form can play a role, even a large one, in improvisation, but it need not be sonata-allegro or A-B-A.  Form is really about referring back to something and doing something different with it (or maybe the same). And that can be done in an infinity of ways!

[thalberg]

My time is so wrapped up in learning pre-composed music that it's been hard to invest time in improvising, though I love it. Sometimes it's really satisfying to follow my heart rather than a score.  Like Xvimbi, my improvisations are on the slow side, and also on the homophonic side.

I wish I could improvise some nice counterpoint like Bach used to do.  I'd go try it right now, but I DON'T HAVE A PIANO!!! 

(You'll have to excuse me--I'm frustrated that it hasn't been delivered yet)

[jeremyjchilds]

I think that improvising is very important because when a strong improviser sight reads, he enter a state where he improvises in response to the verbal cues on the score...it's a different animal.

I did improvising only for about 5 years after 10 years of classical study. It was good for me, but improvising can get boring once you git a plateau...

That is why I decided to get back in to the classics. With every song I learn, I try to think of an element that I can incorportate into my improv sessions.

So To answer your question, I do a little bit of improv and a lot of work on the classics, or modern music, as long as it is quality...

[ted]

It seems to me that the answer to the question of form raised by Derek and Prometheus is glaringly obvious. What you do is invent improvisational forms for yourself. These will normally be very general and very flexible. Although they will not comprise cast iron rules, and may bear little derivative connection with historical forms  (they might, of course, no law against it), they are nonetheless forms. Usually they will tend toward the organic rather than the archititectural.

Most of Jarrett's solo playing, for instance has his very clear formal stamp - a series of long, sometimes very long, sections, often comprising one or two repeated (sometimes very repeated !) small cells or vamps. These are often connected by loose bridge passages, in my opinion frequently the nicest parts to listen to, and certainly the most demonstrative of his considerable and clear finger technique.

It is clear that the process is the other way around. Rather than shovelling musical matter into a jelly mould as a composer traditionally does, the improviser generates his own habitual forms from the organic raw material of his mind and physical attributes. Defined to the note and bar they are certainly not, but they are abstract forms.

I often find too, that forms appear unconsciously in improvisation. You can sometimes discern them while listening to your own playing at a later date, sometimes a much later date. This is a real bonus because they can then be brought to the conscious level next time around. And so the process builds on itself over the years.

[da jake]

My teacher is a wonderful improviser.  If you ask him to play in the style of a given piano composer, he can do it shockingly well, and often very humorously.  He can also 'fake' any piece on the spot that he's heard a number of times (any of the Chopin etudes, for example). There's practically nothing the guy can't do.

I want to be able to improvise one day, and he says he will teach me after I have more repertoire under my belt.

Is there any advice anyone can give how I can get started improvising?

[Derek]

I suppose that depends on what sort of improv you want to do. I'll tell you from my own perspective a good way to start.

Choose some key or other. I started in G# minor when I began (cause I like dark music), and make up a short, repeatable riff. That can be anything. an ascending minor arpeggio with some sort of recognizable rhythm to it, a pedal tone off of some note in the scale. Just make sure you can memorize it.  This will be the first piece of your keyboard vocabulary (for improvising).  Continue to make up and memorize riffs (in your right hand).  If you're feeling particularly bold, start using chords and left hand patterns really early in your improv.  I used octave chords for a couple of years before I started doing that though. My left hand is pretty much caught up now.

The truth is there's no right way of doing it. That's sort of a short description of how I began, but there are many other ways of thinking about it.  The common thing is though you must build a keyboard vocabulary outside of your current technique that will eventually be flexible enough to be spontaneous.  If you really enjoy even the simplest of sounds that you create, you'll be improvising sooner than you think.

::edit:: and record yourself often, even in the early stages! you never know when you r fingers will surprise you with something new. Your brain might not latch onto those quickly enough to remember what you did (early in your experience), so recording yourself is a great advantage.

[chozart]

It seems very cool indeed
I do it occassionally, and in those cases, it's usually in the style of (sometimes an odd MIX of:) baroque, classical, and romantic (though if romantic, it's usually 'early-romantic' or with a random twist archetypal of the classical era).
I like to listen to other people's improvs too, and wish, if time permitted, that I'd remember to practice it more

[da jake]

Thanks Derek. I guess messing about is a good way to go. Does it help to try and fake tunes and pieces?

[Derek]

da jake: Again it depends on what you want to learn to do. My goal has always been to play my own music, though it may be influenced by music I have heard. If you like playing variations on tunes and themes, then by all means do that. It can't hurt.

Sometimes what I do is to not fake a piece but use say the melody and use it as a stepping stone to my own ideas. Improvising right after playing a piece sometimes helps you learn something new.

[pianogeek_cz]

I started two years ago, with the simplest of simple - boogie improvisation, and I worked my way through to late romantic/impressionist improvisations...

I guess I get pretty good improv ideas, but I'm not really good at remembering them - I think this happens to you as well: suddenly you think about the melody you just played and whoa! this sounds good, but which keys did I press?

[m1469]

Well, I am VERY interested in improvisation.  It is one of the main things I grew up doing, however, with very limited understanding.  The only thing I understand better now is that I don't understand what I am doing ... LOL.  But, I have been inspired by the threads and posts about improvisation as well as examples within the audition room.  It is my new wish to start off every practice session with a healthy and lucid improvisation, but I want to study the threads about it a little more first, develop a plan to include the filling in of other gaps I have in my study... hmmmm, I think I can hear in my head what Ted might be thinking about what I just said.. he he

Anyway, my preferred option was not in the selection up top, so I am posting in to say that YES, I LOVE IT and WANT MORE OF IT, but I do not improvise (so-to-speak) everyday, at least not in the ways that many people think of improvisation.


m1469 

[Derek]

I started two years ago, with the simplest of simple - boogie improvisation, and I worked my way through to late romantic/impressionist improvisations...

I guess I get pretty good improv ideas, but I'm not really good at remembering them - I think this happens to you as well: suddenly you think about the melody you just played and whoa! this sounds good, but which keys did I press?

Boogie I think is one of the most challenging forms of improv. How much variety can I create within a certain texture? And just playing an elaborate left hand pattern takes tremendouse sense of time and endurance.

I think in my case when improvising its more of a lack of desire to remember what I played rather than not being able to. I can remember the general outline of what I play rather than note for note, and sometimes this can help me develop parts of improvisation to sound more satisfying (and be more satisfying to play).

[prometheus]

The only improvisation I can do on a keyboard is monophonic. I will write some stuff about improvisation in jazz and carnatic later. Since this is mostly monophonic/melodic improvisation I am just as clueless about chordal and contrapunctal improvisation as most people here. And when you play piano you better want to pull out those big chordal sounds.

But it's hard. That's why I can't say I like piano as a jazz instrument. Really, piano shines in classical music.