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Topic: Critics.  (Read 2351 times)

Offline crazy j

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Critics.
on: August 09, 2005, 02:19:41 AM
 Ok.  I've had it.   I have read a large portion of the topics in the post section and I suppose that my conclusion should not be surprising.  Its obvious that everyone on this site is looking to improve themselves pianistically,  so this is why I am posting this reply.  Anyone that dares to insult any great pianist is a complete moron.  After  reading over the numerous "insights into playing" from people that are "amazing," I must say this: unless you are in fact one of the great pianists or at least a virtuoso, keep you comments to yourself.  Do any of you have any idea of the I.Q. of the people you are commenting on?  They are far superior to those that are  criticizing their tone, tempo, and other aspects of their interpretation.  Also, anyone that takes advice from any of the people on this site should inspect it with the most unforgiving standards, for you are putting your hands at risk.  Consult an expert.  The average concert pianist is a genius in the most popular basis for the term.  Unless you are a genius, shut up. 

Offline Skeptopotamus

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Re: Critics.
Reply #1 on: August 09, 2005, 02:25:19 AM
i'm a genius!


proove i'm not  8)

Offline prometheus

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Re: Critics.
Reply #2 on: August 09, 2005, 02:33:14 AM
Bobby Fischer has an IQ of 184. He doesn't know anything about anything that isn't about chess. Sure he can memorise almost anything but that's about it.

Does this mean he can comment on pianists and I can't?

This is stupid. Did you register to tell us this? Waste of your and mine time.


Plus, maybe I am a genius. If I maintained the IQ I had as a child I might be... I probably didn't. But, like skepto said, prove it first...
"As an artist you don't rake in a million marks without performing some sacrifice on the Altar of Art." -Franz Liszt

Offline rc

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Re: Critics.
Reply #3 on: August 09, 2005, 02:35:37 AM
What's so wrong with that?

When somebody criticizes a great, it's their opinion, and usually has truth. Gould was eccentric, Arrau was slower. There's no reason someone has to be great in order to have an opinion.

What's valuable are the knowledgeable critics; the ones who can say why something is good or bad. Educated insight that can guide those who don't know. I find people's criticism very useful, taken as what it is - opinion.

Chill.

Offline xvimbi

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Re: Critics.
Reply #4 on: August 09, 2005, 03:28:02 AM
Ok.† I've had it.†
...
 Unless you are a genius, shut up.†

So, you must be a genius then 8) 8)

Offline thalberg

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Re: Critics.
Reply #5 on: August 09, 2005, 03:34:19 AM
So you have one post, and it basically tells us all to shut up?   

If you'd spend a little more time here, you'd see we praise the great pianists A LOT!!  We have lists of our favorite pianists and we recommend our favorite recordings to each other.  Furthermore, those who are not experts humbly and freely say so regularly.

A hostile post like that really makes you look bad.  Why don't you register under a new handle and start over so we can't recognize you.  We all really like this forum and get a lot of help from each other.

Offline pianonut

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Re: Critics.
Reply #6 on: August 09, 2005, 03:36:38 AM
i think it's who you tell your criticism to.  if you are polite during a concert, but didn't feel what others did you don't have to fake liking it.  i always clap, but don't always stand up for an ovation (even if lots of others are) if i don't agree.  you don't have to be rude and shout 'terrible, terrible.'  i usually share witha  good friend after driving away from the concert.  i wouldn't want people commenting directly on my playing right after concert if i was a concert pianist (which i hope to become someday).  unless, of course, it was something good.  pianists should get applause at least for the effort they put in.

you know, the deeper you get into music, the more you know exactly what you like and want from an interpretation.  i was listening to leon fletcher (is that how you spell?) and he was playing the last mov't of the emperor concerto.  i thought, this is too dance-like, fast, and not serious enough for me.  but, for someone else, they may think it's grand.  usually, the criticism is according to tastes and not out and out BAD.  the higher the quality of pianist, probably the less 'risks' they take in interpretation, imo.  i tend to like guarded interpretations rather than flamboyant.  anyone can impress an audience, but not everyone can impress music critics.

be one.  but, be polite.  and, if you are playing something that has a serious quality, keep the tempo from racing.  it destroys any sense of nobility.
do you know why benches fall apart?  it is because they have lids with little tiny hinges so you can store music inside them.  hint:  buy a bench that does not hinge.  buy it for sturdiness.

Offline JCarey

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Re: Critics.
Reply #7 on: August 09, 2005, 03:49:10 AM
This topic is so ridiculous, I won't waste too much time on it. But seriously, what stupidity! You're saying that just because somebody might not play as well as the great virtuosi, they can't criticize their playing? Are you saying that if I think Horowitz's interpretation of the Rach 3 is too fast and not musical, I can't say that, just because I can't play as well as him technically? Rubbish!

Offline JCarey

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Re: Critics.
Reply #8 on: August 09, 2005, 03:51:04 AM
And another thing - who has the right to define genius?

Offline Skeptopotamus

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Re: Critics.
Reply #9 on: August 09, 2005, 03:51:12 AM
haha JCarey is a genius so he may say what he wants.


Carey- can I be a genius too?

Offline JCarey

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Re: Critics.
Reply #10 on: August 09, 2005, 03:59:00 AM
Carey- can I be a genius too?

Neither a lofty degree of intelligence nor imagination nor both together go to the making of genius. Love, love, love, that is the soul of genius.
--Mozart

The principal mark of genius is not perfection but originality, the opening of new frontiers.
--Arthur Koestler

To believe your own thought, to believe that what is true for you in your private heart is true for all men - that is genius.
--Ralph Waldo Emerson

 ;)

Offline JCarey

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Re: Critics.
Reply #11 on: August 09, 2005, 04:00:32 AM
So yes, you can be a genius.

Offline Skeptopotamus

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Re: Critics.
Reply #12 on: August 09, 2005, 04:04:42 AM
hahaha i fit all three of those categories

love <3
originality (likes xenakis)
n I always think i'm right  8)

Offline leahcim

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Re: Critics.
Reply #13 on: August 09, 2005, 04:18:10 AM
I thought a genius was formed by sitting around all day pondering and eating tuna....or mebbe that was a cat?

Offline prometheus

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Re: Critics.
Reply #14 on: August 09, 2005, 04:24:54 PM
hahaha i fit all three of those categories

love <3
originality (likes xenakis)
n I always think i'm right  8)

Hehe, so everyone's a genius. I rather use the 2% highest IQ definition. So IQ>140 and you are a genius.
"As an artist you don't rake in a million marks without performing some sacrifice on the Altar of Art." -Franz Liszt

Offline thalbergmad

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Re: Critics.
Reply #15 on: August 09, 2005, 07:27:18 PM
There is a thin line between genius and madness that has been aptly demonstrated in this thread.

If the only posts on this forum were made by geniuses (or geni), then it would be rather empty. There would not be any of mine for a start.

You do not have to be better than someone to criticise.

As a pianist, if you do not accept criticism, you will never be great.

Curator/Director
Concerto Preservation Society

Offline Jacey1973

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Re: Critics.
Reply #16 on: August 09, 2005, 09:42:40 PM
There is a thin line between genius and madness that has been aptly demonstrated in this thread.

If the only posts on this forum were made by geniuses (or geni), then it would be rather empty. There would not be any of mine for a start.

You do not have to be better than someone to criticise.

As a pianist, if you do not accept criticism, you will never be great.



Very true. In fact i think the more critical you are of yourself/other pianists whether they are "geniuses" or not the better pianist/teacher you are.

Plus it would be boring if we all praised the great pianists all the time and would mean we were not very good at listening in detail!
"Mozart makes you believe in God - it cannot be by chance that such a phenomenon arrives into this world and then passes after 36 yrs, leaving behind such an unbounded no. of unparalled masterpieces"

Offline lostinidlewonder

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Re: Critics.
Reply #17 on: August 10, 2005, 01:32:40 AM
The more opinion and ideas the better, especially for a subjective issue such as music.
People should be encouraged to express their opinion as to what makes good music. That doesn't mean you explain by saying what you think sucks which is how most people express their deconstructive musical opinion.

Some critics are impresed by particular avenues that make great music. Perhaps one may adores tempo control and the other, technical prowess and acrobatics. Perhaps there are particular phrases of a piece which to the listener is very important and if a player neglects it, rushes over it for instance, that may offend these listeners. If a fast section excites you a lot you may wish to hear it played at a faster speed, if someone plays it slower it offends you again.

No matter how good your critical musical ear becomes you will find more and more things you wouldn't personally do yourself at the piano (but then when you sit at the piano you actualy realise how difficult it is to produce your ideal musical ideas clearly).

Music is really much more than having just ONE SUPREME WAY. Bach with the pedal or not? Who is to say what is right and better? Prove your ideas! If it works people will appreciate it but there will always be other that pipe up with something to say. However a good musican doesn't really give a stuff about deconstructive criticism but adore constructive criticism with careful and sometimes bitter consideration. We should embrace constructive critique because it will better us as musicians.

It is single sentence critique from various musicial teachers I've met over the years which have stuck with me. Not someone pointing to a particular piece and saying it should be done this way! When I was a kid I was told things like,

"Listen to yourself closely while you play." How deep is that bit of advice. How to actually listen to yourself while you play is a huge adventure of  musical training and self discovery.

"Be careful of the size of the room and instrument you play." Makes you think in the realms of acoustics, and further developing your ear to LISTEN TO YOURSELF PLAY.

"Relax, always RELAXED!" Which means no matter what you are playing, no matter how difficult it may be, you are always relaxed.

These to me are very constructive bits of advice. It is very general bits of advice but they act as a compass to me all the time guiding me in the right directions.

Those that talk down piano giants who are selling out concerts and making a big name for themselves are wasting their time. YOU CANNOT STOP these people from making it big no matter how much you dislike them and will not support them or listen to them. Tall poppy syndrome is horrible it gets you no where, just holds you back and keeps you bitter until you die.
"The biggest risk in life is to take no risk at all."
www.pianovision.com

Offline pianohopper

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Re: Critics.
Reply #18 on: August 16, 2005, 01:32:49 AM
Without critics, where would the world be?  If there's no one to define or protect quality, and everyone thinks everything is great...we would be inundated with poor products, music, etc.  Society would collapse! 
"Today's dog in the alley is tomorrow's moo goo gai pan."  ~ Chinese proverb

Offline Nightscape

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Re: Critics.
Reply #19 on: August 16, 2005, 01:59:20 AM
The critics do not define the boundries of the good and the bad, it is the consumer who does that.  Society would be fine without them, as long as we all have a little bit of a critic in ourself.

Offline pianistimo

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Re: Critics.
Reply #20 on: August 16, 2005, 02:09:49 AM
good critics write articles which express what you would have said if you had the nerve.  of course, the new yorker is one which holds nothing back.  if you are an excessive critic, who is to say your life wouldn't be in danger from the bodyguards of some of these pianisits...but if yoiu have nothing to lose - and say it - people think wow, maybe i should speak up if i agree with some of the stuff this critic has to say. 

other times, you think, why did they say that.  i liked the music.  shut up!  but, of course, you can't be on two sides at once.  that is for the general public that likes everything.  just eat your pablum and be a good baby. 

Offline hazypurple21

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Re: Critics.
Reply #21 on: August 16, 2005, 02:29:36 AM
So you have one post, and it basically tells us all to shut up?   

If you'd spend a little more time here, you'd see we praise the great pianists A LOT!!  We have lists of our favorite pianists and we recommend our favorite recordings to each other.  Furthermore, those who are not experts humbly and freely say so regularly.

A hostile post like that really makes you look bad.  Why don't you register under a new handle and start over so we can't recognize you.  We all really like this forum and get a lot of help from each other.

Go thalberg!  ;D
"There is one god-Bach-and Mendelssohn is his prophet."
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