Brahms Concerti

[arensky]

You know what to do!

Loved or hated recordings?

Memorable performances?

What do YOU think?


I love this website, I wish we'd had the Internet when I was in school....

[mrchops10]

I finally voted for #2...I really think it is the better piece, but that said, I love the first mov't of #1. Yes, I know it probably has too many themes, the second is formally more impressive (it all comes from that one opening theme), but I can't help but feel the second is a little stingy in the first mov't. It's a great theme, but when you can write melodies like Brahms can, why not give us a couple more?

I love Curzon's recording of 1 with Szell and the LSO. It's too bad he never recorded 2, he played it also. Fleisher set is also very good, and his 2 is the best, I think, on record.

P.S. Isn't it amazing that Szell conducted probably the three most classic recordings of these concerti (with Curzon, Szell, and Serkin)! It's fascinating to hear how his interpretation of the piece differs to match the conception of the soloist.

[apion]

I finally voted for #2...I really think it is the better piece, but that said, I love the first mov't of #1. Yes, I know it probably has too many themes, the second is formally more impressive (it all comes from that one opening theme), but I can't help but feel the second is a little stingy in the first mov't. It's a great theme, but when you can write melodies like Brahms can, why not give us a couple more?

I love Curzon's recording of 1 with Szell and the LSO. It's too bad he never recorded 2, he played it also. Fleisher set is also very good, and his 2 is the best, I think, on record.

Brahms 1 is as structurally impressive as Brahms 2: namely, all of its themes and motives (in all of the movements) derive from the massive opening theme of the 1st movement.  The Curzon/Szell is also my fave.

[arensky]

I think Leon Fleisher excelled in both of these, they are my favorite recordings of these Concerti. For #2 I also like Rubinstein and Barenboim. I don't much care for Curzon in #1, it seems stiff to me, but he was a remarkable pianist; just my opinion.

I think the Horowitz d minor is out on Naxos, I recall seeing it in a store in the not too distant past; someone recorded it off the radio in Holland in 1935; I've been treasuring my cassette copy for years, maybe it's time to get the disc; this is a truly incredible performance, frightening
(in the good way)!

I saw Horacio Gutierriz play the Bb  in 1981 in Symphony Hall in Boston, with the Orchestre de la Suisse Romande  conducted by Horst Stein. An extraordinary performance.

[mlsmithz]

I opted for No.2, though I must admit this is more for the first three movements than the fourth, which feels rather anticlimactic.  The first movement alone contains at least fifteen moments which make the hairs on my arm stand on end.  In particular, there is one passage about five minutes in when the woodwind theme from the very beginning is passed between the piano and the strings; the entrance of the woodwinds, even though it is just a simple Eb-Bb progression, is perhaps my favourite moment in all of music for its serenity. (It is perhaps ironic that the serenity is quickly dispelled after the piano enters again.) Though it doesn't quite equal the economy of the introduction of the first concerto, the introduction of the second concerto also sows the seeds of several major themes and motifs for the first movement (anyone know if there is any use of themes and ideas across movements?), which I think is clever.  Still.... that horn solo during the exposition of the first movement of No.1.... now there's more beauty in simplicity.  Another of my favourite Brahms moments.

My teacher often told me that although the difficulties of both the Brahms No.2 and the Rachmaninov No.3 were extremely formidable, he felt the Brahms was the more difficult of the two because, if it does not equal the density of notes of the Rachmaninov, it surpasses it in terms of requiring unnatural contortions of the hands and fingers and other performance pitfalls (things like galloping across three octaves in the space of half a bar, quadruple octaves played pp, varying 'parallel intervals' which make 'Feux-follets' look predictable, etc.).  That said, he argued that one was difficult to learn but not to master, and the other was easy to learn but not to master (I forget which was which.... at any rate, he was slated to perform the Rachmaninov at a local concert when I was 16 but had to change it to the Brahms after he decided he could not get the Rachmaninov up to par in time - he had played it before but didn't trust himself to pull it off).  Such was his influence that I have never agreed with the 'consensus' that the Rachmaninov No.3 is the most difficult piano concerto (and in the years since I've heard and heard of many which are even more difficult than the Brahms).

As for recordings, I have Barenboim's recording with Mehta and the NYPO, part of the now out of print complete Brahms concerto collection (it also includes Stern playing the violin concerto and Zukerman and Harrell playing the double concerto, as well as Gould's rendition of the Op.79 rhapsodies), and it's served me rather well over the years.  I've heard No.2 done live three times - once by my teacher (see above), once by Andre Watts, and once by Evgeny Kissin.  I'd be hard-pressed to say which one I enjoyed most - my teacher slipped up noticeably in the first movement and the orchestra accompanying him was awful, Watts' rendition didn't really engage me emotionally, and Kissin.... well, it was technically good. (I passed up the chance to hear Helene Grimaud play with the DSO this past year - after hearing her perform the Bartok No.3 in 2003 during the slow movement of which she was sniffing so loudly before each chord I thought she might end up inhaling the entire piano, I was hesitant to hear her live again.) And I've only heard No.1 done live once, by Mikhail Pletnev and the Gewandhaus orchestra.  Now that was a good performance (except for the fact that the acoustics of the auditorium were such that from my seat the instruments at the back of the stage (i.e., the tympani) sounded loudest and those at the front of the stage (i.e., the piano) were softest).

[Waldszenen]

Love both; prefer No. 2 overall.

Favourite performances are those by Gilels with Jochum, Gilels with Reiner, Fleisher, Schnabel for No. 2 and Horowitz.

[rohansahai]

Like no. 2 more. Gilels/Reiner is my favourite with Richter/Leinsdorf a close second.

[arensky]

lafter hearing her perform the Bartok No.3 in 2003 during the slow movement of which she was sniffing so loudly before each chord I thought she might end up inhaling the entire piano, I was hesitant to hear her live again.)

I really HATE sniffers! The conductor of our symphony is leaving after this season, THANK GOD! He sniffs before every upbeat! Because his baton technique isn't very good how else do they know when to come in?

It's even more annoying  in chamber music; I 've always felt this was a passive agressive action on the player's  part, trying to control the music because they can't with their playing And when you ask them to stop they get all huffy (and then they leave, YAY!!!! ) And we get someone good to play with!

[maxy]

Brahms 2  Richter with Mravinsky is AWESOME! 
Both Gilels versions also.

Berman has a pretty good Brahms 1.  This may sound weird but I find Brendel has the best third mvt of Brahms 1 (boy will I get trashed with this statement) 

[apion]

Berman has a pretty good Brahms 1. 

Lazar Berman with the CSO has a horrendously bad slip (read: misreading of the score) just prior to the first octave trills during the opening of the first movement.  Unless you're entirely familiar with the score, you will miss it.  But it's a big downer for me.     Other than that, Berman does a great job!

[Waldszenen]

Brahms 2  Richter with Mravinsky is AWESOME! 
Both Gilels versions also.

Berman has a pretty good Brahms 1.  This may sound weird but I find Brendel has the best third mvt of Brahms 1 (boy will I get trashed with this statement) 

I like the Brendel Brahms PCs

[arensky]

BRAHMS BUMP!! 

[arpeggiosnake]

Num 1 by far. The last movement is pure genius.

Num 2 is more like a symphony with piano obligato. I dont like it: So long and so difficult.

The ultimate recording has to be: Jochum - Gilels