Coda in the G minor Ballade

[kghayesh]

I am now learning Chopin's first ballade and i knew that i must work hard on the coda (starting from the presto con fuoco).

I wanna know what is the best way to tackle such a fast passage that needs a lot of virtuosity and musicality as well. Right now i am practicing it HS from the score at a slow speed with no or little memorizaition.

[abe]

I have worked up to the coda as well (should I have started on the coda first?), and won't start serious work on it until my lessons begin again (in the next couple of weeks). My teacher for some reason told me to hold off on the coda when she gave me the peice at the beginning of summer vacation.

I will probably approach it HS and get each hand to a decent speed and very solid (and memorized to a point of instinct). Then I will go back to a very slow speed as I put the hands together, and will increase speed very slowly. From what I can tell, it will be the left hand jumps that will be the biggest speed barrier to me with HT, as it is in the waltz-like section (pg. 9 I think, after the cadenza-type section).

For the right hand, I can tell that loose and supple wrist action as well as a relaxed hand are required to play the passage at speed. I can't see myself conquering the coda anytime soon, though.

Good luck. I too would like feedback from those who have been successful with this peice.

[jz_rach2]

as Abe said
i would suggest that you memorize HS first and then try to put them together slowly.

when i was working on the Coda, i used the metronome, starting from a very slow tempo and then gradually worked my way up. i know it is quite unmusical practising with a metronome but it really helps you to control your hands. the Coda, starting from Presto confuoco, is divided into a few sections: b.208--215 requires accurate landing of both hands and attention on the weak beat accent; the pedal here goes up,down,up,down and must be in coherence with the left hand so the staccato in the left hand can sound. for this section i strongly recommend the use of metronome because some people tend to go really fast after they're learned it well and musically the accent and fz are lost. b.216--237 is the section i personally had(still have if i don't practise it everyday) a lot of trouble on. this requires a bit of stretch in the right hand but if you have hands big enough, you may find it easier. the low notes in the left hands, which form the foundations of the chords being implied are very important - you may want to bring them out, especially at b.220 and 221 with the rising scale pattern. the right hand, as Chopin himself indicated, does have a few notes which shape out the melody. look for the notes with accents and also look for the quarter notes for they make up a melody which is intended to be brought out in the performance. although seemingly a technically demanding, "show-off" kind of passage, it still has its own beauty within. you can even just play these melody notes alone for a few times to let the ear know what you are bringing out when everything is put together.  from b.237 and so on, there is really not much difficulty as long as you practise slowly. the fast runs and scales on the last page are really nothing compared to the previous 2 sections. focus on the the 2nd&3rd last pages of the piece and once you've mastered them, you'll have no trouble with pg 15.

overall, besides using the metronome and practising slowly, i also suggest that you practise each section in different rhythmic patterns: 8th to 8th is what Chopin wrote but you can try dotted-8th to 16th this kind of rhythimc patter and vise vesa (please tell me if i'm confusing you, i don't really know how to explain this. use dotted-rhythem)

i hope this is helpful. ahh also your post just reminded me that i need to pick up that Coda now and start practising it. good luck and please get back to me if you find this useful.

[quantum]

learning the coda first is not a bad idea. 

Memorization is an important part of this coda, so memorize before you can play up to speed.  Why?  Because part of the memorization is coordinating your eyes to catch the jumps, this has to be integrated as part of the performance and you can't learn it if you are staring at the score.

The RH will reqire a very flexible wrist.  I use a side to side rocking motion between the thumb and fingers. 

Avoid playing forte even at slow tempo, practice the entire passage softly.  This will help you getting too caried away with emotional excitement and focus your attention to your technique and any unnecessary muscle tension than may arise.  My teacher suggested: when playing it slow, play it like a nocturne. 

[maxy]

Respect the accents, they help.
Right hand moves the most, but it is actually the left hand that tends to "kill" performances.

[kghayesh]

Avoid playing forte even at slow tempo, practice the entire passage softly.  This will help you getting too caried away with emotional excitement and focus your attention to your technique and any unnecessary muscle tension than may arise.  My teacher suggested: when playing it slow, play it like a nocturne.

My teacher will be so disappointed from you if she heard that    Her point is that you must be familiar with all sforzandos and accents in the music while u r practicing it slowly. Take for example, the revolutionary etude if practiced at a slow speed and played like a nocturne will take you a lot of time to get it right with the intedned - mood.

[teresa_b]

All those suggestions sound great.  I have yet to play this coda well, probably because in recent years I have not enough practice time.  My teacher made a suggestion that did help me long ago.

I had a tendency to tense up when playing those right hand passages from the second half of page 13 to the first half of page 14.  (Sorry, I don't know the bar numbers).  Anyway, she told me to "slap" them (of course slap them accurately, this did not imply sloppy!).  This idea helped me to realize I should loosen the wrists. 

I think the practice with different rhythms is a great help, too.

Good Luck!
Teresa

[quantum]

My teacher will be so disappointed from you if she heard that    Her point is that you must be familiar with all sforzandos and accents in the music while u r practicing it slowly. Take for example, the revolutionary etude if practiced at a slow speed and played like a nocturne will take you a lot of time to get it right with the intedned - mood.

And nocturnes don't have sforzandos or accents?  The point is to always make it musical, and not just an excercise - sforzandos and accents included.

Certainly any piece has a perscribed mood or feel that is required of it.  But if one were to always play the piece exactly the same way, one would never discover new possibilities to interpretation.  Sometimes playing a piece with alternate moods or a mood that is intentionally "wrong" will lead you to discover new ways of playing passages and lead to solutions for the final "correct" interpretation. 


Taking the Revolutionary Etude and playing it as a nocturne will help you see its compositional structure and you may soon find out it has much in common with a nocturne - with the exception of tempo.  In fact in one of my university composition courses we studied the Revolutionary Etude as we were learning to write nocturnes (or accompanied melodies). 

My 22 cents.. (hey gas prices are so expensive, don't I have the right to raise the price of my 2 cents?)

Cheers.

[kghayesh]

And nocturnes don't have sforzandos or accents?  The point is to always make it musical, and not just an excercise - sforzandos and accents included.

Certainly any piece has a perscribed mood or feel that is required of it.  But if one were to always play the piece exactly the same way, one would never discover new possibilities to interpretation.  Sometimes playing a piece with alternate moods or a mood that is intentionally "wrong" will lead you to discover new ways of playing passages and lead to solutions for the final "correct" interpretation. 


Taking the Revolutionary Etude and playing it as a nocturne will help you see its compositional structure and you may soon find out it has much in common with a nocturne - with the exception of tempo.  In fact in one of my university composition courses we studied the Revolutionary Etude as we were learning to write nocturnes (or accompanied melodies).

That was a good point of view. I really can't say anything after that

[dinosaurtales]

I would definitely recommend practicing verrrrry slowly, but with all the accents and dynamics.  If you think about it, it "feels" very different playing loud from soft.  It will be quite a transition to practice soft then suddenly kick in the fortes! 

That said, there's no point in "pounding" it out till you've worked out the basic fingerings and notes.  But I wouldn't put off the dynamics for too long!