playing & conducting - how is it done?

[pianohopper]

Just wondering how  people can conduct an orchestra while they play the solo piano part of a concerto at the same time?  It must be crazy, because it seems like you would need four hands!  I have never seen it done, but I have recordings of pianists playing and conducting at the same time (e.g. Barenboim).  And wouldn't half of the orchestra be unable to see you over the piano? 

[thalbergmad]

I saw Ashkenazy do it with the Brahms 1.

I swear he burnt off more calories than i do in a 3 hour session at the gym.

[pianistimo]

that would be great to see, but imagine, as thalbergmad said, very difficult.  it would solve some problems though.  you would have the exact tempos that you wanted, you could sort of direct by your playing the dynamic levels for certain areas when together - and hope the orchestra is good on picking up hints (probably worked through before anyway).  wonder if there is anything that the first violinist does to help?

[thalbergmad]

If i remember, the first violinist got him a beer after the first movement.

[shasta]

The pianist just performs his/her music as usual but turns to the orchestra and conducts from the piano bench during stretches of orchestra-only.  Ashkenazy and Uchida are great examples if you ever get a chance to see them.

^^ In fact, Uchida is performing a bunch of Mozart concerti (Nos 8, 16, 24, and 25!) with the Cleveland Symphony this season and will be conducting them as well.

[xvimbi]

There is nothing unusual about this. In fact, in the olden days, that was the way it was done. The conductor is a fairly late invention, when somebody realized that it would be good to have a special person who would indicate the rhythm (like those drummers on Roman galleys). That was originally done using a tall staff (one of the more famous conducturs stabbed himself in the foot and later died from that). in Mozart's time it was common to conduct with a piece of rolled up paper (most commonly the score itself). Only later someone invented the baton, because that way, it is easier and more effective to poke a recalcitrant violinist in the eye than whacking him over the head with a piece of paper...

(Quiz: Who was the guy who stabbed himself to death?)

[shasta]

(Quiz: Who was the guy who stabbed himself to death?)

Death by baton:

Lully stabbed himself in the foot

Tilling stabbed himself in the hand

[xvimbi]

Death by baton:

Lully stabbed himself in the foot

Tilling stabbed himself in the hand

Bravo! 

[pianistimo]

are you serious?  has any pianist died playing the piano?

[xvimbi]

Simon Barere, Carnegie Hall, April 2, 1951

[pianistimo]

what did he play?  what did he die from?

[xvimbi]

what did he play?  what did he die from?

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&client=safari&rls=en&q=simon+barere+death+carnegie&btnG=Search

[pianistimo]

grieg's a minor, huh! have to go back and look to see if he was conducting at the same time.  *nope.  eugene ormandy was conducting.

and, interesting to read so much about his technique (playing the etude for left hand by
liszt).  hadn't really read or heard much of barere until now.  listened to his la campanella which is pretty good considering that the recording studio wasn't supposed to record it, and he was just playing it for fun.  very light technique and beautiful tone (sound) from the piano.

[dorfmouse]

In fact, Uchida is performing a bunch of Mozart concerti (Nos 8, 16, 24, and 25!) with the Cleveland Symphony this season and will be conducting them as well.

Oh, it's beautiful to watch her conducting from the piano. You feel she's dancing.

[shasta]

Oh, it's beautiful to watch her conducting from the piano. You feel she's dancing.

Oooo, glad to hear you enjoyed her!  I'm going to try and get up to Cleveland to hear/see her.  I'd especially like to catch her Mozart 24 or 25.  Actually, Ashkenazy is onboard to conduct Cleveland as well this season...   hmmm, there goes all my savings...   

[silvaone]

Ray Charles used to conduct his orchestra with his head and feet........

[Bob]

Orchestras at that level probably don't "need" a conductor to play the material.  I think they be a great pyschological help for them though, to urge them to give better results.

The orchestra could also follow the first violin.

[pianohopper]

are you serious? has any pianist died playing the piano?

I think Gottschalk collapsed during a concert in Brazil -- he felt compelled to leave the country because of a scandal involving his relationship with a female student of his.  Apparently, much was made of the fact that the piece he was performing at the time was his composition called Morte.  (death)  It was due in actuality to a ruptured appendix, and he died 3 weeks later.  Btw, he had finished Morte and was moving onto a piece called Tremolo when he collapsed, but people are readily superstitious.