church music

[liszmaninopin]

I really don't know which forum to post this on, but I will try miscellaneous as it seems all-encompassing.  The other day I performed a movement from a Beethoven Sonata at a friend's church.  It seemed as if I only received 1 or 2 compliments (from people I know).  That wasn't so much the problem as that they were all trying to get me to play hymns and even wanted me to play a couple on the spot with their chorus.  I probably could have sight read them, but declined because I didn't want to grossly mess up and hurt the chorus.  Later I received the comment that pianists can usually sight read on the spot.  It really annoyed me that all they cared about was my learning gospel music, brushing over the sonata.  Does anyone here have any real experience with churches?  Do the pianists usually play everthing from sight, are the average people in the pews more concerned about gospel music than classical?  I really felt dejected.

[allchopin]

hehe i wouldnt reccommend playing any transcendental etudes then  .  but seriously, they may not have been familiar with the song or just were impressed but kept it to themselves.  Im sure you did good, but they just might be more interested in the church music (sadly...).  you should work up some sight-reading skills so that you could appease their tastes, and THEN play the sonata and see what heppens. I really dont know, i have never played in a church although i would like to. was this some sort of job ($ involved?) or just for fun? i would like to know how you got into this position.

[liszmaninopin]

It was just for fun, mostly.

[Ktari]

Hm, I've played in a church a couple of times, and they were MUCH better receiving than that. Granted, I played Bach and Handel, who sound pretty churchy, but for example the church loves when my piano teacher plays non-churchy organ songs for them, and they want me to perform again in August leaving the song choice to me (like it was each time) so they seem pretty relaxed about the music -I think most of them just enjoy music in general, not particularly hymns

[liszmaninopin]

I'm glad for you that you were well received!  I don't intend to play again at that church, but maybe someday I will at a different church.

[Hmoll]

I'm sorry to hear about your experience. Instead of feeling dejected about it, try to take it as a learning experience.
Some things you can learn from this experience:

- Wherever you play find out what is expected of you. Is it ok to show up, play your prepared piece, and go home (or watch the rest of the service), or, is there the possibility that you might be asked to play a couple hymns, or something else at the last minute for the service?

- Brush up on your sightreading so you can read competently through church hymns.  This advice applies to any venue where you might play, so you can extend that to being able to read through different styles.

- Be flexible. If someone asks you to read through something, give it a try - even if you might not read it perfectly.

I don't know the people at the church where this took place, so I can't say overall if the they prefer church music to classical music. However, one thing I can almost guarantee is that when they are at church they will prefer religious music because they are there to worship. Don't take it the wrong way when their motivation is spiritual and not focused on listening to a Beethoven sonata.

Finally, their experience with musicians may be somewhat limited to church musicians who are hired because they can sight read hymns and choral pieces, and know how to play gospel.

[MzrtMusic]

Perhaps I can give a different perspective to this thread. I have played piano at my church for the past four years. During those four years, I have played many many hymns and praise choruses. I have also played many classical pieces. For some of the people in my church, the only music they get to listen to all week is what they hear me play. They like to hear songs that they can recognize, and hum along with. What I have found works really well is to purchase a book of more advanced piano solos that are "church songs." Word Music publishes several books, and they are called things like "The Big purple book" or the "big Bronze book" I don't remember all of the colors, but those have some great music in them. A man named Mark Hayes has written many wonderful arrangements of music for church. If you really want to play something classical, there are several books called something like "hymns with a classical touch" and they take a great classical piece, and weave a hymn into it. The book I have includes things like Beethoven's "Moonlight" sonata/It is Well With My Soul. Grieg's "Morning Mood"/Amazing Grace.

Hmoll is right about most people coming to church to worship, not attent a classical concert. I am a classically trained musician, and I know that I can worship God just as much by playing a Beethoven sonata as by playing/singing "Amazing Grace." But there are some people that don't realize that, because they don't get the chance to immerse themselves into the piece as they are learning it. Does that mean the don't appreciate it? I believe that means they don't understand it the way you do. Also, remember that these people came to church to be spiritually challenged, and to grow in their faith. That means that by the end of the sermon, God has probably shown them something about themselves, generally something I at least don't really want to see. At that point, music really isn't something that's incredibly important to me. The best advice I can give you is to work on your hymn playing. As long as you can get the melody in there, make up a bass line. Look at the root note in the bass, and then just play that chord arpeggiated. Invest in some Sacred Solo books that sound almost as good as classical stuff. And above all, remember that when people come to church, it's to put their focus on God, not on you, or Beethoven's sonata. It's not an insult, it's just the atmosphere.

Love,

Sarah

[liszmaninopin]

Thanks for all the comments.  One reason I really didn't know what to expect was that I don't go to church myself, so I was unprepared.  I did learn a new hymn today, though:  Amazing Grace.

[BoliverAllmon]

I am glad you didn't try a hymn. If they were using a hymn book and you tried to sight-read you would of been in a heap of trouble. Most people don't know this, but hymn music is actually only written for voice. The pianist is suppose to look at the notes and improvise on the spot an accompaniment to it. I hear it all the time that church music is dull and boring. most of the time it is because of an incapable or uneducated pianist. Church music is really an art form. Think of how Bach left his music without markings or how he did thorough bass. the same ideas apply here.

boliverallmon

[TwinkleFingers]

I play for church off an on right now.  They are very reformed to the extent you should be a member to play the piano for the service.  I dont do it for $$.  I try to play the music and dedicate it to God.  Not for approval by man.  I prefer for no one to applaud my performance in church as it takes this dedication away from God and gives it to me instead which is not what im after.  But afterwards people say that they were inspired by my music:) makes me feel good inside. even though I dont play at a high level of skill.  I try to stick with music that has to do with worshiping God. Even if it is a piano solo.  Just so people will know the melody and sing to themselves.  And your right, no liszt etudes or rachmaninoff in church:) even though I love both of them.  

[b3rel]

It really depends on the church whether they like the classical music. I just got back from a presbyterian church that was having a church anniversary.

They played the following there:

Beethoven's Appassionate

Bach prelude for organ

Mendelsohn sonata No. 2 for organ.

Haydn duet for piano and organ

a couple arias from Puccini

along with some hymns.

The people there enjoyed it greatly. Now, i could never do this type of program at my church.

boliver

[brotherben]

I am a church pianist of 5 years.  I've done everything music in a church setting from playing those old hymns to playing prelude, postlude, offering, children's programs, etc.  To answer your question, Yes!  People in the church expect the pianist to sight read music.  In reality, lots of pianist can't sight read music that well.  That's alright!  It's not your job to sight read music just like that.  You need time to rehearse and know where to play, how to play, etc.  I have gotten to the point where it's alright to say, "I can't."  It won't be the end of your career.  Please remember that people in church's will always say things that might hurt or upset us (as pianists), but don't take it seriously.  It's okay to make mistakes.  

For me, I usually play lots of songs by sight reading them.  But when I have to accompany a choir, violists, instruments, or whatever, I normally practice with them ahead of time; never on the moment.  Good luck!!!

Don't give up,
Ben

[xenon]

I agree with Boliver.  The SATB formation of the music is for the vocalists, and the pianist must improvise to keep the hymn mivong, especially on the long notes at the ends of phrases that the piano alone cannot swell on.  Then, there is the odd member in the congregation that drags down the entire piece, but that's a different story .  

As for your predicament with your performance, I am sorry for your disappointment.  At my church, after special music, we never clap.  Rather, we say Amen in acknowledgement of the talent God has bestowed upon the performer and composer.  Church music is easy to sight read, but if you are nervous, or have never done so, it is completely alright to reject it's performance.  My sister is a very good performner and has only 1 year less music education than me, yet she did not have the experience as a church pianist and she is uncomfortable with sight reading them.

Anyways, you had a piece you prepareed to perform, and you did your best.  It is really a shame that they did not acknoledge your devotion to the music.

Good luck in your future endeavours

[eddie92099]

At my church, after special music, we never clap.  Rather, we say Amen in acknowledgement of the talent God has bestowed upon the performer and composer.

Pah,
Ed

[xenon]

*sigh* Edward, keep your anti-God remaks to yourself.  No one wants to hear them.  And please don't try and condemn my reference to God.  It was not a direct insult to you.

[eddie92099]

There was no anti-god remark. The fact that you generated one shows all of us your (fully justified) insecurities though!
Ed

[xenon]

Ah, so I only assumed that the "Pah" was a statement directed to my remark on God.  I see.  Care to show the reasonings behind your three-letter comment?

[eddie92099]

Ah, so I only assumed that the "Pah" was a statement directed to my remark on God.  I see.  Care to show the reasonings behind your three-letter comment?

I was expressing my annoyance at the choice of word used - "Amen". Why say something which means "I agree" when you mean to say thank you?
Ed

[xenon]

Ah, so you decided to edit the post.  Very crafty of you .  No, amen does not soley mean "I agree with you" but can be used:

-to approve warmly
-as a statement to express assent or approval

See how it fits the context?  I'm sure you do.

[eddie92099]

Ah, so you decided to edit the post.  Very crafty of you .  No, amen does not soley mean "I agree with you" but can be used:

-to approve warmly
-as a statement to express assent or approval

See how it fits the context?  I'm sure you do.

Snore,
Ed

[xenon]

Snore

It seems that Edward's brain has decomposed into a worthless pile of futile waste.

[eddie92099]

It seems that Edward's brain has decomposed into a worthless pile of futile waste.

Xenon, you make me laugh!
Ed  

[PianoProfBonsWay]

Hi, Thank you Sarah for your word ~ right on. I am a Sacred Concert Artist, played at churches across USA. Used many genre's of semi-classical ( my own arrangements), gospel, and other types/styles. Wide selection.  Different church worship differently, using their traditional styles, and I agree with Sarah, but they should of been happy that they had such wonderful talent in their church that day! SAD!  Church lack and have a great need for Church pianists. I am so sorry you had that experience ~~ you should hear my experiences   BUT I play to glorify the God that I serve, and upleft the hearts of the people through His music, so His message is given to the hearer, helping them in their needs. If I can help you further with the church music ~ just email me at: fastwaypianomethod@yukontel.com  Don't let people get you down ~ those that usuallly speak like that usually have personal problems, and I always take that into consideration, and pray for them, and continue on...  love seeing people blessed with piano playing in church.
Prof. B.
Those that live in SD, I will be in Sturgis in Oct. 2004 for a Sacred Piano Concert.

[xenon]

There's a lack of pianists?  Wow.  In the small city I live in, at the church I go to, there is a surplus of pianists.  I guess God has truly blessed our church.  But it seems that when they get married, their involvement decreases for a while, until it comes back to normal.  One pianist just got back from the honeymoon stage, and is back in the full swing of things.  Another pianist was recently married, and she doesn't play very often anymore.  But then she is more concerned with other duties at church.

There should be some sort of enlistment session where churches can find more pianists to train them to be church pianists .

[PianoProfBonsWay]

You are really blessed with church pianist! Wow!  A lot of these Sacred Gospel Artist that travel and perform in church, see this and Dr. Mark Hayes is trying to do something about it, but again his program is great, except if these people are beginners, it is going to take a long time to be able to play the piano for church through the standard methods. My aggressive approach to learning church music, they are playing for church within the first year. I am currently training piano instructors nationwide to help train people to play for their churches.  God has sent to my website all Christian teachers to train ~ awesome.  I am currently putting together an online for beginner's piano lessons, homestudy or take the piano lessons to a piano teacher and use my system. Not having church pianist is a concern of mine too.

[xenon]

Hey hey, if you require assistance with your website, I'd be happy to volunteer my time to its development for the further education of pianists.

My skills include:
-HTML
-some JavaScript
-CSS
-PHP 4
-Apache
-MySQL
-Adobe PhotoShop 7
-Macromedia Flash 5
-Plasma (3d flash)
-some 3D Studio Max 4
-Adobe ImageReady 7

And for others, no, I am not advertising my services.  Though if you require some help, I'd be glad to give you some pointers .

[eddie92099]

God has sent to my website all Christian teachers to train ~ awesome

Ahem,
Ed

[xenon]

Dude, it's not like we're going to start a crusade to kill you .
Anyways, yeah I guess that the mention of God is to be restricted to religious type threads?

[bitus]

The ideal in playing in church is for your playing to integrate into the congregational singing, and together to form that worship that pleases God. Anything beyond that is in contradiction with the purpose of worship. If you're doing it for other people to compliment you, you're in the wrong concert hall...  When people come and compliment me for my playing, i realize i showed off, and took a little of the glory that was supposed to be given to God.

I hate those arrangements that take a classical masterpiece and combine it or change the original arrangement... It might sound traditional, but i don't think anybody else could arrange the melody from Fur Elise better than Beethoven... And of course... combining it with Amazing Grace.  
Bitus

[eddie92099]

I hate those arrangements that take a classical masterpiece and combine it or change the original arrangement... It might sound traditional, but i don't think anybody else could arrange the melody from Fur Elise better than Beethoven...

Well you sit and listen to Moussourgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition and I'll listen to Ravel's orchestration!
Ed

[bitus]

Ed,
i think i didn't make myself clear I wasn't talking about those kind of arrangements... made with and orchestration purpose, or by great composers. I have the highest respect for that. If we call ourselves proffesionals, we know what the difference between quality and kitch is in music...
I was talking about all those cheesy arrangements that take pieces like Amazing Grace and combine it with Fur Elise ...  by some commercial composer for a big but even more commercial publishing house that doesn't have the slightest idea of what classical music is about(Lifeway); The type of arrangements you find in local bookstore... maybe in a book called "Playing Offertoires for dummies". I am not english, so i cannot explain myself the way i would like, but i'm sure you understand my point. I like to refer to them as "written, cheezy improvisation for mediocre pianists".
Think about Pachelbel's Cannon in D... how many different versions of that did you hear in Church? And because of those arrangements, the original loses it's beauty... becomes so commercial, that we're sick of it.
Hope you understood my point,  
Bitus.