Emoting while performing - how much is too much?

[baso]

I recently stumbled upon an article/review of the La Jolla Summerfest (San Diego.com).  Towards the end of the article, praises were given to hornist Jennifer Montone, violinist Kyoko Takezawa, and pianist Cecile Licad.  Their performances impressed the writer but mentioned that the faces that Licad made at times during the performance were "unnecessarily distracting".   He went on by saying that "Some musicians shouldn’t emote while performing, because they look silly doing so, and unfortunately, Ms. Licad is one."

My question:  Should pianists be constantly conscious of how they emote and the actions or faces they make while performing?  I have seen several pianists make what may seem like unnecessary gestures on stage but I believe that these are not intentional gestures to display acrobatics but a physical manifestation of the pianist's mental state.

Any thoughts?

[prometheus]

Why do people need to 'express' emotions with stupid body movements when they are playing music. Playing music for all sake. Is there any better way to express yourself?

I don't understand.

[spirithorn]

If you have the occasion to attend a recital by Andre Watts, I would suggest trying for a seat where you can't see his face.

[justliam]

Good subject.  It actually really irritates when people emote for NO reason.  Whe pianist play a piece that was say one long sustain note before anything else, and they act really instense and lost in the moment, at the start? And it irritates me becuase it's false and because it's not necessary.  I don't like people gurning faces and swaying backwards and forwards, all so unnecessarily, after all it's not as if the audience members do you same is it? and they are all hearing the same music.  What do I like however, and I think IS necessary, is when piano players are playing a lively performance and so become animated them selves, and begin to move with the direction of the music.  Because will only serve to allow to show the character or the piece and such like.  So to summarise my point of view, dull gurning bad.  Moving in an animated fashion whilst playing lively music, good.

[jhon]

btw, this is a re-post from another thread.  it seemed more appropriate here...

its inevitable sometimes that your personal feelings will affect your playing either for ood or bad.  but this must be controled simply bec. such is "unartistic." remember that piano playing is a performing arts and arts in general is just an aesthetic representation of reality - in this case, for instance, your real personal feelings, etc...So keep that subjectivity in you as objective as possible in piano playing.  As in any other arts in general, i believe there's always a constant interplay between objectivity (ie, technicality) and subjectivity (ie.interpretation) bec in arts is the only realm where objectivity is subjective and subjectivity is objective.

for example, if youre depressed, dont let your subjective emotions overdo all your playing - this is IRRATIONAL.  rather, learn to leave some space for objetive elements such as technique and the composer's real treatment (ideal) of his piece.  learn to draw a line between the two...

[lostinidlewonder]

Too much is when you start to make sounds which interrupt the music. It is ok to hum while you play but not so loud that it overpowers the music. Two obvious examples would be Gould and Helfgott. I think facial expressions are not relivant because music has nothing much to do with what something LOOKS like.

Music has a very personal meaning to musicians and really everyone. But a musican generally is around their music more often than non-musicians. Their relationship with their music develops a great deal more since their contact with it is constant and every day. This can cause a deep emotional conection which causes funny faces and over the top gestures.

I was told by Roger Woodward not to let the music play you, but you play the music. I recoiled to the remark at first because I always let myself get lost in music while I played but to really control music, to make it the best you can, you must have control emotionally. That is the toughest thing for most musicians who are emotional with their music. It is very hard to contain the feelings from within.

I personally don't care if I see over the top movements of emotional expressions, but you sometimes get annoyed with it happens and the sound produced is nothing special.

[pianohopper]

I have heard that Rachmaninov didn't do any facial expressions when he was playing because he was concentrating so hard. 

I was at a piano competition recently and was really disgusted by one of the performers antics and gesticulations.  Not only was he rocking back and forth, closing his eyes and tilting his head backwards in much a similar fashion as Lang Lang, he was also breathing so loudly I could hear it from where I was sititing, which was very far back.  Plus it was a loud song.  It was like the piano was some sort of inhalable powdered drug for him, but it seemed to me very over-orchestrated and unnecessary.

I am of the opinion that there is a fine line between gratuity and necessity.  The piano is an instrument, but the pianist should be an instrument for the song to be played through.  So you shouldn't draw attention to yourself because your playing, if its full of emotion, will speak for itself. 

[piazzo23]

Does it really matter? It´s funny at most.

There´s so much other beneficial things to think about when playing, like expression, to begin worring yourself about your face.

[ted]

For me a clear distinction exists between a player perceiving emotions mentally and translating those emotions into visible physical expression. I think we would probably all agree that feeling nothing inside and making gestures as if we were is merely theatrical and a waste of time. The case of feeling nothing and displaying nothing also need not concern us. Hundreds of pianists seem to play in this way, although strictly speaking an observer can never guarantee to know what a player is thinking. That leaves the fourth combination of a player who feels emotions and expresses them partially through his music and partially through his actions and mannerisms.

I sometimes get very worked up inside, especially during improvisation, and I once imagined this quality might be visible. However, when my son made a video of me I appeared very poker-faced, upright and even mechanical. I know nothing about performing but as far as recordings are concerned, it does, I think, detract from my listening pleasure when the player hums (Gould) or grunts and groans (Jarrett). 

[jhon]

I was told by a Roger Woodward not to let the music play you, but you play the music.

actually, both are inevitable so there must be constant balance or interplay which makes it more exciting

[gruffalo]

im not saying i can comment on this because i am not a proffesional but none of you people are proffesional. and what makes a proffesional is their natural ability to let music flow from their mind and heart and out of the body through their hands. if we could all do this we would be proffesionals and seeing as we are not, we do not know what it takes to get that music out. and some different proffesionals have different ways, some more obvious than others of getting it out and i dont think they want to think about looking ridiculous in the process. as far as faces are concerned, you do not go to see a performance to judge how a player looks. you go for the music. i couldnt care less if a guy turns up to a major concert wearing jeans and a t-shirt with trainers. i would go for the music likewise (although i dont think i will because there are too many traditionalist cynics out there) i would rather people didnt care if i decided to turn up to a performance whereing casual street clothes. however theres a certain level to where i think that would be ridiculous say if a whole orchestra turned up wearing own clothes but it wouldnt be tragic.
if you have a problem with the way someone looks while performing just close your eyes or leave. humming and stuff is ok but making noise which annoys the listener i suppose is a bit over the top, but in terms of performing, yes people try to make it look hard or easy which ever they choose, but i doubt they are going to want to make themselves look stupid, so we have to realise what every weird stuff they do is purely them being natural.

[vininim83]

The thing about a perfomance is that you can choose wether you are there *to watch* or *to listen* to someone playing. Just close your eyes and you don't even have worry about a bright green spotlight being reflected directly from the boards to your eyes. 

As a performer, it might end up being your personnal view of what art is in a piano perfomance is. Do you want to provide people that go there to watch you, with something to watch? Or do you want to tame them into just listening to you?
Are you going to decorate the hall/room ? Are you going to dress good or just something very neutral as in to not take too much attenttion? Are you going to provide any food in intermissions to the audience?

There is also the issue of habit. What do you usually do while playing at home? Does it hinder your technique? Does it makes your body ache after extreme periods of "emoting"( )? Does paying attention to what your face is like would distract you?

In my opinion, perfomance wise do as you please, but watch out the outcomes of unnecessary body movements while playing, and as long as it is not being an issue, don't pay too much attention.

By the way evgeny kissin looks so weird while playing I would say that commercially it might not be an issue, that is me. =)

[jeremyjchilds]

I was told by a Roger Woodward not to let the music play you, but you play the music.

Well put.

[Jacey1973]

.

[gruffalo]

What if the performer can't help facial expressions/movements/swaying ect? I don't use facial expressions overly when performing - as i feel stupid lol. But when i'm rehearsing i do whatever comes naturally and tone that down a bit for the actual performance. When i did a recital in June i was just so lost in the music that i probably did lots of facial expressions - but i didnt really have control over them, too busy concentrating.

My friend from Uni (also a pianist), when she played her recital (the complete Chopin etudes op. 25) the same day she had been in the hospital with her mother who was really ill.
She wasn't going to do her recital (we were majorly assessed on our recitals in our final year) so she could stay with her mother. But she turned up in the end - very emotional and upset. So half way through the etudes - i think it was during the really long, sad, minor etude she starts sniffing really loudly. Then i realised she was crying! I couldn't believe it she was playing with such intensity and emotion yet tears were running down her face and she was clearly really upset.
I didnt know what to do because i couldn't go and see if she was alright (i was in the audience) because it was an exam. However she carried on and completed a brilliant recital.

thats pretty amazing. i agree with you about the performers not always being able to help the way they play. at home i sway my body quite a bit depending on how emotional the piece is, e.g. there wont be much swaying to Bach. but Debussy there will be more. i wouldn't think that people would put on a silly face for the show.

[jhon]

What if the performer can't help facial expressions/movements/swaying ect? I don't use facial expressions overly when performing - as i feel stupid lol. But when i'm rehearsing i do whatever comes naturally and tone that down a bit for the actual performance. When i did a recital in June i was just so lost in the music that i probably did lots of facial expressions - but i didnt really have control over them, too busy concentrating.

My friend from Uni (also a pianist), when she played her recital (the complete Chopin etudes op. 25) the same day she had been in the hospital with her mother who was really ill.
She wasn't going to do her recital (we were majorly assessed on our recitals in our final year) so she could stay with her mother. But she turned up in the end - very emotional and upset. So half way through the etudes - i think it was during the really long, sad, minor etude she starts sniffing really loudly. Then i realised she was crying! I couldn't believe it she was playing with such intensity and emotion yet tears were running down her face and she was clearly really upset.
I didnt know what to do because i couldn't go and see if she was alright (i was in the audience) because it was an exam. However she carried on and completed a brilliant recital.

You're pertaining to the C#m etude, Op.25/7.  I too cries with that...

[limegreen]

For the same reason you make a face when you climax or take a sh*t, for the same reason you smile/laugh when you're happy or frown/cry when you're down ect.   We are physical beings after all and I think it's kinda creepy to see no signs of emotion; it's unnatural; the same type who would want to turn out the lights; INHIBITED and no good.

[thorn]

I think anything that just come naturally is fine, but if its exaggerated or forced, then its too much..there again only the performer can really know if they're faking it a bit

[gruffalo]

For the same reason you make a face when you climax or take a ***, for the same reason you smile/laugh when you're happy or frown/cry when you're down ect.   We are physical beings after all and I think it's kinda creepy to see no signs of emotion; it's unnatural; the same type who would want to turn out the lights; INHIBITED and no good.

yea i would get freaked out if someone played an emotional piece with a completely plain posture and look.

[Jacey1973]

You're pertaining to the C#m etude, Op.25/7.  I too cries with that...

No sorry i got the wrong opus it's 10 - cos i remember her playing the revolutionary etude at the end.

[nicolaievich]

I think music is done with the whole body. If you are rigid while, your music will be rigid. If you are too much relaxed your sound will be fragile and volumeless. It is important to accompain the music with your body, but there are limits. It's uncomfortable to see somebody playing and going backward and forward all the time, or somebody putting scary faces.

what do you think??

[rapmasterb]

Some truly great pianist like Radu Lupu, Barry Douglas and Marc-André Hamelin hardly move their bodies at all while playing. They let the music talk. Though the majority of professionals like to give the audience a show (seeing as that is their job) and they do it. If I was to be cynical I'd question how much emotion they show in private practise.

Weird story: I was at this group concert thing before and a young pianist got up to play a bach a-minor prelude (can't remember which one). He moved his torso around like a merry-go-round constantly and fluffed notes left, right and centre. He also had to start the piece twice even with the music in front of them. Lesson one: don't try and cover up lack of practise with inordinate amounts of diversionary body movement because; Lesson two: it distracts you ridiculously unless you are really in touch with the piece.

[lisztwasgod]

lang lang is too much...he is jsut so familiar with his instrument that he can move wildly about and be a showboat...but that doesnt mean hes playing his f'ing pieces well...OVERRATED; the right amount of emotion would maybe be Olga Kern, as her recordings arent always up to snuff, but her live performances are breathtaking because she has such amazing grace and will behind the ivories

[Jacey1973]

lang lang is too much...he is jsut so familiar with his instrument that he can move wildly about and be a showboat...but that doesnt mean hes playing his f'ing pieces well...OVERRATED; the right amount of emotion would maybe be Olga Kern, as her recordings arent always up to snuff, but her live performances are breathtaking because she has such amazing grace and will behind the ivories

Yes i was going to mention Lang Lang. He does move around alot, pulls some funny, sweet faces, but i rather like him. The only thing is i find him a bit heavy handed sometimes, but he works so hard good luck to him. I think alot of the time he is clearly enjoying himself so immensely that he is probably so far away in his own world that he doesn't realise half of what his body/face is doing.

The other thing about moving around too much (more in the body) is that i should think you've got to be careful not to waste energy especially if you're playing for a long time.

[perfect_pitch]

Film yourself playing. If you look like you need an exorcism - I'd worry.

[fnork]

I was told by Roger Woodward not to let the music play you, but you play the music.

I don't know who Roger Woodward is, but I completely disagree with his statement. In my opinion, his statement suits material, touchable things; for instance, it would be right of him to say: "Don't let the computers/machines rule over you, but you over the computers". Or: "Don't let alcohol rule over you, but you over the alcohol."
But isn't music something higher than material things? Shouldn't we apply another standard for art comparing to the "real world" - a world filled with things that we can control? Because the truth is that control restricts the freedom in doing things however you want to do them, and in my opinion, the desire to control everything is going to make music as boring and bureaucratic as the KGB police under Stalin in the Soviet union. We need to let the music speak, and the only way to do it is by letting it fly - free from boundaries, free from control. Anything else is going to be predictable and dull.

It's not YOU who should play the music, the music should play you. It should make you feel something - happiness, sadness, sentimentality, whatever. And these emotions will be found in the pieces that you're going to play - so just let the MUSIC tell you what to do... in other words, the "instructions" for how to play a piece won't come from a good teacher, the performance commentary or in the sheet music, but only from the sound of the music itself. (I'm not saying that good teachers are nothing worth) Therefore, the only way to get an idea of how to play a piece is, in my humble opinion, to let the music itself reveal this for you. Anyone can learn all of the ornaments, get all editions and read about the composers... but if you want to make a good interpretation of a piece, just let the sounds you hear guide you.



To relate what I've just said with the topic itself, I can only say that just as we shouldn't try to control music (and instead letting the MUSIC play you, rather than you play the music), we shouldn't try to control what we FEEL for the music. Art and emotions are infinately free and are not restricted to any boundaries. We don't "decide" to feel anger or love towards someone, it's simply emotions we cannot control. In the same way, NO MUSICIAN should try to control the river of emotions that pours out at the moment that beautiful music is being created. It's just something that happens. Everything is a part of the creation, and if you try to control the musicians feelings towards the music, you'll change the music too. In the end the music won't feel real or emotive, and what once was looked upon as art - which is something higher and "better" than the "real world" - will become another product of entertainment for the masses who are more concerned about if the performing artist is wearing the right clothes and has shaved himself during the recent days than if the artist is actually out there on the concert stage to communicate through the instrument. With or without body movements.

[fnork]

In the end the music won't feel real or emotive, and what once was looked upon as art - which is something higher and "better" than the "real world" - will become another product of entertainment for the masses who are more concerned about if the performing artist is wearing the right clothes and has shaved himself during the recent days than if the artist is actually out there on the concert stage to communicate through the instrument. With or without body movements.

After having written this, I accidentally turned on MTV and suddenly remembered that what I just had written above as a "future nightmare" is true already 

One more thought on control vs non-control/freedom, a little comparision: Playing music is like driving a car to a specific place in order to make a delivery. This place is far from where you live but from memory, you know a safe and good way to get there. But as you begin the task of driving to this place, you might realize ie how beautiful the nature is around you, and you might start to feel that you could just as well try getting to this place going a different way, just to discover all of the aspects of the beautiful surroundings that you see from your car. However, taking a different way could make you confused and perhaps you won't deliver the item on time as you promised. So, what is the best thing to do? You decide....

[fnork]

"the right amount of emotion".... that has got to be the worst couple of words I've heard in quite a while. I'm curious, how did you make a calculation of what the right amount of emotion is? "Hmm, Lang lang gets -5 for ugly facial expressions but 2+ because he doesn't groan, contrary to Glen Gould or Keith Jarrett... Rachmaninov gets 0 points because he's a bore to look at...." Jesus christ, if you're looking and comparing facial expressions, groans etc to find what you think is "the right amount of emotion", you must be pretty *** bored. And I suppose that the sentence should have been "the right amount of facial expressions and groans etc"? Because to my knownledge, EMOTION isn't calculable and the "amount" of emotion that a person feels when doing something is always the "right amount" since there are no rules for what "the right amount of emotion" is anyway... Also, what one person feels as something with little or no emotion, someone else can feel completely different, and therefore  "the right amount of emotion" is completely subjective. (in case you didn't know)

This talk of "emoting while performing" reminds me of a big jazz ensemble I saw live at our school several months ago. It consisted of bass, drums, piano, cello, percussion, vocals, trumpet, alto and tenor saxophone. The percussionist in this ensemble was moving so much and she made such facial expressions and groans that some people in the audience would laugh at her (which she, hopefully, didn't notice). Her playing, however, was excellent. Really good. But no matter what, I suppose it would be appropriate if someone told her that she's good but she's got the "wrong amount of emotion" in her playing... she should hear someone say that - otherwise she'll be the percussionists answer to Lang Lang! How awful it would be!

[jeremyjchilds]

I don't care if you play with physical expression, just don't emote all over me...

[violinist]

Some musicians don't get enough of a workout just moving fingers around, so start exercising those facial muscles... maintain that pump.  Lean back... feel those abs contract.. hold for two measures then sway left...

I do it to save time on aerobics workout.  Get it done while performing.  It will give critics something to write about.

[fnork]

As opposing to what some people here have said, a teacher from my former school (who mostly teaches drama and music & communication) said that it's very important to have a lot of (physichal) energy when performing, and he usually suggested that you run a short bit very fast before a performance, to keep the energy high when you're playing. For instance, everyone in our class were supposed to perform a piece and read a poem for the rest of the class, and one guy at first read a poem in a quite insecure way and then performed an incredibly fast drum solo just drumming with his hands on a table and his feet on the ground. The teacher then told him to do the energetic drum solo first, and then read the poem - and he recited it much much better. Simply because he had more energy when doing it the second time.
We pianists are unfortunate because we have to sit still while performing. But a good friend of mine who plays violin in a folkmusic group we have together, he usually moves around a lot when we have gigs, and it really helps him to have this energy while playing. I'm perfectly sure that he wouldn't have as much energy in his playing if he would be sitting still all of the time...

Anyway, I think attemts to move around a bit while playing will do good for the music, and it can help you to stay focused. So moving around doesn't always have to do with the performers feelings towards the music. It can just as well be a way to make the performance better.

[jhon]

I recently stumbled upon an article/review of the La Jolla Summerfest (San Diego.com).  Towards the end of the article, praises were given to hornist Jennifer Montone, violinist Kyoko Takezawa, and pianist Cecile Licad.  Their performances impressed the writer but mentioned that the faces that Licad made at times during the performance were "unnecessarily distracting".   He went on by saying that "Some musicians shouldn’t emote while performing, because they look silly doing so, and unfortunately, Ms. Licad is one."

My question:  Should pianists be constantly conscious of how they emote and the actions or faces they make while performing?  I have seen several pianists make what may seem like unnecessary gestures on stage but I believe that these are not intentional gestures to display acrobatics but a physical manifestation of the pianist's mental state.

Any thoughts?

Hi.  i know cecile licad since we are both from Philippines.  she is really like that when performing and its her style ever since.  for me, no matter how distarcting it is as lons it is NATURAL and not mechanical or scripted...

[rimv2]

Ah juss when to a recital. The pianist played a variety of different pieces with a variety of different moods.

She managed to capture the moods perfectly. Ironically, her faced never changed. She was  focused. That's all.

Just cuz its sad doesnt mean you have to cry or look like you're going to pop. Because its happy doesnt mean you have have a grin on your face.

Unless, of course, you are LangLang. Hes the only exception cause his face gives meh a good laugh every time