Casio or Yamaha?

[yoshiki]

Hi everyone! Please help me deciding which digital piano to get.  I targeted a Yamaha CLP115 and a Casio  AP-38. The thing is, the Yamaha piano is slightly more expensive than the Casio one (both are within my budget which is small  ).  I laid my hand on both and I liked both. However the sales person recommanded the Casio instead. My concern is, Casio is more like a calculator company. I have checked other postson this forum and Casio wasn't really highly ranked.  Should I get the Yamaha then? (The Casio got more functions)

[xvimbi]

Go for the one that has the better touch and sound. Don't pay attention to additional functions, but only to the priority ones. If there is a tie, then you can take the one that looks nicer, is lighter, has more bells and whistles, whatever, but those are all secondary. In general, Yamaha is very good and reliable. I don't know why the salesperson recommended Casio, but keep in mind that he might have a different kind of motivation, such as getting a higher commission from selling the Casio then selling the Yamaha.

Have you checked out the Yamaha P-120 and P-250? They are price-wise in the same ballpark, but have features that might interest you. Check out the specs at www.yamahasynth.com and compare to the CLP-115.

Have fun!

[yoshiki]

I don't know why the sells person siad that. She claimed that the Casio model won a competeion and beat all more expensive models from different brands. (really?)
Yep, the Yamaha a bit smaller and lighter as well.
I am not considering buying a stage "keyboard", I would like to get a piano that comes with a proper stand. I have experence playing on a keyboard. When I play some louder sections, the whole thing starts to shake.........
I guess I will go for the Yamaha then.
Thanks for the advise.
P.S. Digital piano here in Australia are much much overpriced when compare to US. (Maybe I was just comparing some online prices  )

[leahcim]

Have you tried the yamaha ydp113 [it's the old clp110] same features / sound as the clp115,
but 1 pedal not 3.

Usually cheaper.

[sklebil]

I think that Yamaha is generally considered better than Casio, but that doesn't mean that Casio cannot come up with a really good product from time to time. I have the casio privia px300 and I think that within the relevant price range (600$) it's unbeatable.
It is YOU who is going to play it, not the salesperson or reviewers....For me personally the most important is the feel and touch. That's the priority. The keys should have some weight. Second important feature is sound. Also, check the pedal. Make sure the model you are going to buy allows half pedalling.

[jeremyjchilds]

I will die on this furom telling people to not get digital pianos unless they already have an acoustic.

I have three keyboards...an acoustic, a korg Triton, and a Yamaha Weighted stage keyboard. Both of my keyboards are generally considered to be of excellent quality.

I spend 99% of my time on my acoustic.

Now I know that you were hoping that a bigoted pompus piano technician with a superiority complex would come in and tell you to not get a digital...

But if you are serious about playing, there are just so many things taht you can do on an acoustic that you can't on a digital....Try painting with only one color, sure you can get the outline of the picture, but the beauty is in the details and shading....

just my 10 cents

[leahcim]

I will die on this furom telling people to not get digital pianos unless they already have an acoustic.

Send me the $50000 and I'll save your life

Until then, it's better than nothing....and a lot better when your main time for practising / playing is 9pm->onwards with people asleep.

But if you are serious about playing, there are just so many things taht you can do on an acoustic that you can't on a digital..

True, but your P60 might be excellent quality [I obviously got the one that sounds like a P60 ]  but it's not the best you can get [in terms of those extra things, not bells & whistles]

As for a single colour - Beethoven once said to someone "If you only get one sound out of that Steinway, don't come looking to me for symphony - I did warn you"

[jeremyjchilds]

You know, I'm not going to argue with you here, My P60 is a good, but not great digi..

I have played very good digital pianos, and have found the same to be true...

Do you believe what you say, or are you playing "devil's advocate"? because if you believe in Digi's then I'm wasting my time, to each thier own

Happy playing.

I liked your beethoven comment...

[allthumbs]

As for a single colour - Beethoven once said to someone "If you only get one sound out of that Steinway, don't come looking to me for symphony - I did warn you"

Not to be picky, however it's unlikely Beethoven mentioned Steinway in his quote as he died (1827) before Steinway was in existance (1854). I like the quote  though.

Cheers

[raffyplayspiano]

get the yamaha..please!

ive tested some casios, and they are ok, but they are no yamaha..

raffy

[leahcim]

Do you believe what you say, or are you playing "devil's advocate"? because if you believe in Digi's then I'm wasting my time, to each thier own

What do mean "believe" in them? I'm not arguing that an acoustic grand piano isn't better note I said "True" as the first word to what you said. I didn't disagree with your comment

I'd say you're wasting your time telling folk asking about digitals at a certain price to get an acoustic, especially in the exasperated "I'm going to die" way that you did. I'd ignore your advice because I'm skint, not because it's wrong - I'm sure I'm not alone.

In the "I've got $5000 and I'm looking to spend $10000" thread, I think you were right to point it out [but it doesn't matter what I think is right or wrong anyway - keep sayiing it, it is true, but I don't think you need to get frustrated that folk are looking at digitals]

Just as I'd be wasting my time telling someone looking at a CLP115 or P60 or casio to try a Promega 3. You have tried one? If not, please do - I'd be interested in what you think as someone who teaches and plays classical piano - how close are they? As I've said, it's supposed to model a lot of the resonance and dynamics that many other digitals, irrespective of the quality of the sound or the quality of the instrument in general, don't do.

To not buy one of the popular makes, you've really got to make an effort [or take a risk buying unseen, if you've even heard of it], and if you know next to nothing about pianos, digital or acoustic, that's not likely to happen.

A lot of the time I see praise for a particular make [on the internet in general, not here] it's generally not someone playing classical, it's often someone who has owned a plethora of synths and keyboards and rarely plays an acoustic. They rave about the rhoads / clav sounds as much as the piano and they rave about the way it sounds in a mix etc.

So, although valid opinions, they don't tell you much about how good the digital is for playing classical music. [There are those opinions, but in general, they are like you - folk who have a Yamaha, and say it doesn't do this and that, but they have an acoustic anyway or perhaps they don't think that any digital piano has it to look for it in the first place. Or perhaps they are looking for something that's not there but, to me is less important, yet is often improved - the quality of the sound of the individual notes.

I certainly wasn't aware that any digital piano attempted physical modelling even though I was aware that was an approach - I do note that many put the buzzword "sympathetic reasonance" in their literature though]

As someone put it elsewhere - a mediocre piano sound modelled well would be better than a good piano sound modelled badly or not at all. We know that it's not going to be a grand piano, but if something has the touch, dynamics and nuances modelled well you can learn to create those sounds on it and thus, in principle, walk to an acoustic and make them too [modulo the differences that exist between acoustics as well]

But yeah, if you look at the extreme - use the organ preset on a digital, then you're unlikely to develop any dynamic touch at all, so I see what your point is.

An upright does the things you'll say digitals don't, but it still sounds like an upright though, but to me that's where a digital should aim.

If the promega does what it says [I've not had a play yet], I'd then argue that it'd be a good race against an upright.

But each to their own, there's no argument from me that the preferred instrument of people playing classical piano is a grand piano and the compromise is more often an acoustic upright than a digital - and as you say, folk with digitals that play classical, tend to have both or just an acoustic. But not with a low budget.

[princessdecadence]

Yamaha by bargepole

[gilad]

yoshiki, dont get the clp 115. i'm pretty sure the p120 which i know comes with it's own stand, so it's similar to the way a clp atands.the p60,90 and 120 are probably all better than that clp. i hear it has no dynamics just one sound level for each key.
i bought a clp 150, it's expensive i could have bought a p250 or120 etc.
do your research ad work out what makes for a good piano,
again the yamaha p series is pretty sweet, the key touch on yamaha is a real good simulation of an acoustic.

[leahcim]

the p60,90 and 120 are probably all better than that clp. i hear it has no dynamics just one sound level for each key.

The P60 has the same features as it [without the 3 pedals + metronome, key cover and stand and an 8w amp rather than 20w]

There's a P140 coming out soon [some apparant pre-release mistakes on the internet if you google - the forum postings remain, the links to yamaha's stuff have disappeared at the moment] That probably explains some very cheap P120s knocking about in the UK at the moment.

Ah, here's a link after all.
https://www.yamaha-europe.com/yamaha_europe/uk/10_musical_instruments/70_synthesizer/20_stage_pianos/10_stage_pianos/10_p_series/018_P140/index.html

The specs don't look like a reason to get excited though - unless the price is closer to the P60 than the P120 and they intend to release some p120 / 250 replacements with 4-dynamic sample / GH3 P models.

Damn, hope my plans to rid myself of the P60 for ebay money don't go awry :/

[intermezzi]

yoshiki, dont get the clp 115. i'm pretty sure the p120 which i know comes with it's own stand, so it's similar to the way a clp atands.the p60,90 and 120 are probably all better than that clp. i hear it has no dynamics just one sound level for each key.

Hmm, not sure where you heard that, but the CLP-115 definitely has dynamics like all the other Clavinovas. It is possible to turn the dynamics function off, so that may have been what mislead whoever told you that. Also, the 115 with dual 20-watt amplifiers has about twice the sound power as any of the three P-series instruments (that is without connecting any external speakers). With the stand, the P-120 looks similar to a CLP, though it will still not have a complete set of pedals. And it doesn't necessarily come with a stand. At the music store where I work the stand is shipped and sold separately, though you may find some places where it's included. The P-120 is a great instrument if you'll be travelling with it, but if you want a better sound I'd go with the CLP-115. 

[gilad]

Hmm, not sure where you heard that, but the CLP-115 definitely has dynamics like all the other Clavinovas. It is possible to turn the dynamics function off, so that may have been what mislead whoever told you that. Also, the 115 with dual 20-watt amplifiers has about twice the sound power as any of the three P-series instruments (that is without connecting any external speakers). With the stand, the P-120 looks similar to a CLP, though it will still not have a complete set of pedals. And it doesn't necessarily come with a stand. At the music store where I work the stand is shipped and sold separately, though you may find some places where it's included. The P-120 is a great instrument if you'll be travelling with it, but if you want a better sound I'd go with the CLP-115. 

thanks for clearing that up, i was hoping if i had heard wrong someone would.

[leahcim]

Hmm, not sure where you heard that, but the CLP-115 definitely has dynamics like all the other Clavinovas.

It doesn't have the 3-layer samples. The CLP-120 doesn't either.

Where to "hear" it would be standing next to one But you can read it at any of the yamaha sites  - owners manuals / specs / features etc are all there.

Ignoring speakers / cabinets and number of pedals - in terms of sampled notes / sample size / polyphony / voices etc etc
The ydp113 / clp110 / clp115 / p60 are the same. The clp-130 is the same as the P120.

[classicarts]

Digital pianos do have their purpose.  There are many advantages of owning a digital piano.  I have tried and owned a few in the past before I got my acoustic piano.  In the last few years Casio's has come out with great digital pianos.  Personally, I liked the sound of Casio's over Yamaha's, but that's just a subjective opinion.  Some people may like the sound of a Yamaha and some don't.  I found Casio's to have more tonal quality than the Yamaha's.  And, of course, if options are important that is also to be looked into.   

[leahcim]

Digital pianos do have their purpose.  There are many advantages of owning a digital piano.  I have tried and owned a few in the past before I got my acoustic piano.  In the last few years Casio's has come out with great digital pianos.  Personally, I liked the sound of Casio's over Yamaha's, but that's just a subjective opinion.  Some people may like the sound of a Yamaha and some don't.  I found Casio's to have more tonal quality than the Yamaha's.  And, of course, if options are important that is also to be looked into.   

I'd agree fully having heard one [see question below though], but Casio brings up that image of a calculator and cheap keyboards. I've not heard good things w.r.t older models and the price of these doesn't immediately suggest quality - although they could be bargains of course, but... It depends what the quality of these is like. In that respect Yamaha deserve their status, you know it'll last.

That said, if you want the best sound, you'd get neither imo.

question : Given what you just said, why did you buy a Yamaha Grand?

[classicarts]

Huh? I bought a Casio Grand. Just kidding. Acoustic grand pianos are competely different than digital pianos.  It's like night and day.     If  you try some of the acoustic grand pianos or even uprights, they have a completely different tonal quality about them.  The sound is more authentic and colorful.  And to answer your question,  there are few reasons why I bought the Yamaha grand for me, and I really don't feel like getting into details about it.  However, I can tell you that price had alot to do with it and the condition of the piano.  Yamaha's are generally known for their short decay and brightness of their sound, whereas, some people like more lush melodic sounds.  But I have found Yamaha's grands not so bad.  I like their brightness and their short decay can be compensated with a foot pedal.  Overall, I'm very happy about this Grand piano I have purchased.    It's going to give me many years of enjoyment! Butt,I kinda wish it was bigger though.

[leahcim]

Huh? I bought a Casio Grand. Just kidding. Acoustic grand pianos are competely different than digital pianos.  It's like night and day.   

Yes, but the casio isn't a recording of a casio grand whereas the yamaha is.

Recorded, they sound pretty much the same. That is, after all, what a digital piano is and usually a decent recording too. I've heard a yamaha grand live, it was louder and fuller, and there are a few decent recordings in the audition room of one and a p200 / p250 - they all sound like yamaha pianos to me - I'd have said you either like the sound or not [but evidently that's not true in your case hence my surprise ]

The real difference is what the digitals lack [decent speakers usually, sympathetic resonance etc] which will affect the overall sound, but the comparison wasn't a grand piano with a digital - it was the tone of a recorded grand piano against another recording.

Don't get me wrong, buy whatever piano you like, I'm not saying you're wrong

The price thing is a good point though. I bet Casio use Steinway.

[classicarts]

No, I heard they use Bosie's. 

[elephant]

The real difference is what the digitals lack [decent speakers usually, sympathetic resonance etc]

Digital pianos seem to be designed to sound just like a concert grand miced up in a great hall. This seems like an excellent idea on paper - a Steinway D and a concert hall in your living room for just a couple of grands - but as pianists we are used to be sitting right in front of our pianos, and so the sound from a digital feels kind of detached.

I didn´t think of this until just recently when I tried a silent Schimmel. It sounded very different from other digitals, probably not very good for recording purposes, but playing it using headphones felt very much like sitting in front of a real acoustic.

[leahcim]

I didn´t think of this until just recently when I tried a silent Schimmel. It sounded very different from other digitals, probably not very good for recording purposes, but playing it using headphones felt very much like sitting in front of a real acoustic.

It's a Yamaha digital piano, so it's probably the same as Kemble and Yamaha Silent.

[elephant]

It's a Yamaha digital piano, so it's probably the same as Kemble and Yamaha Silent.

I´m not sure if I completely understand you, but the Schimmel sounds very different from the various Ps and CLPs.

[leahcim]

I´m not sure if I completely understand you, but the Schimmel sounds very different from the various Ps and CLPs.

I meant it's the same silent system used in Yamaha / Kemble pianos i.e a yamaha one.

https://www.schimmel-piano.de/e/silent-piano.html

The Schimmel Silent piano is a traditional upright, with.....  a mechanism for silencing the hammer action and a built-in Yamaha electronic digital piano....

It may well sound different from the clp / p series - from the pov of reverb that's pretty much configurable on them all though.

But you make a good point - my p60 sounds pretty bad without the reverb and a bit OTT with it - the gem rp800 I tried the other day with reverb switched off was much better by comparison [played loud enough in the right room, you probably wouldn't need to fake it] - although the switched samples in the higher yamaha models make a big difference too with reverb off.

[elephant]

That

I meant it's the same silent system used in Yamaha / Kemble pianos i.e a yamaha one.

Now even I can understand.

Anyway, is it the same system right down to the samples used, or just in  terms of the sensors and electronics? And what about Seiler? I heard they invented the silent thing, with other manufacturers still paying royalties?