Music Schools - Masters Programs

[dinosaurtales]

I could use some help.  I live in Portland, Oregon, and am seeking a masters level music program for piano performance and theory.  Oregon really doesn't have anything of quality, which implies I'll be traveling (what the heck - consultants like me travel on business, why not to school?)

Anyway, if anyone knows of any "gems" - like some smaller school with a spectacular teacher or two, best-kept-secret, or anything of the sort that would take an adult student let me know! 

Most seem to focus on prepping younger students for the competition circuit, and they really aren't interested in somebody like me.  I work hard at it, and love it, though. 

I am really looking for ideas here.  I feel like if I lived on the east coast I'd have a better choice.

[arensky]

Have you heard of Alexander Tutunov at Southern Oregon University in Medford? He is well liked by the pianists I know who have attended his summer classes there....

[dinosaurtales]

Thanks!  I looked them up.  He certainly does seem like an excellent pianist and teacher.  Bummer is Southern Oregon U doesn't have a master program in piano.  I'll keep looking, but that's exactly the kind of school I'd be looking for if they had one!

[arensky]

Most seem to focus on prepping younger students for the competition circuit, and they really aren't interested in somebody like me.  I work hard at it, and love it, though. 

I am really looking for ideas here.  I feel like if I lived on the east coast I'd have a better choice.

Why do you want to go back to school? I think your first assumption (quote above) is entirely correct, and if they're not prepping kids for competitions they're prepping them to be part of the college educational system (of course, the be all and end all of musical existence) Sarcasm, ha ha...

Seriously if you want to teach at a college university or conservatory that's the only reason to return IMO, is to get your "bear badge" so the other cub scouts will let you into their club. I'm sure you know that nowadays the DMA (dumbest musician alive) degree ( Eagle Scout, or Weebalo? ) is usually required to even be considered for a position in the USA, no matter what you may have accomplished in "real life".

If you just want to learn more and expand, the institution is not nessacary, there are private  advanced teachers of piano and theory, "gurus",  in every major city and area, it's just that you have to dig around for them, they usually don't advertise. Is there a pianist in Portland named Jeffrey Paine? I went to school with him, about 15 years ago he left Boston to go to Portland, he had a teaching position at a college. Maybe he's still around...there's a guy at University of Western Washington or whatever in Yakima, I think...his name is Jeffrey Gilliam, I knew him at a summer master class years ago, he has since gone on to very good things, including collaborations with Yehudi Menuhin and Rugierro Ricci. As for his teaching, I have no idea. Hope this helps you...

[dinosaurtales]

Arensky - yes there is a Jeffrey Paine here in Portland!  I met him at a composition workshop, where he was dynamite with the kids!  He seems like a really neat guy - but - I think he's in the middle (or tail end by now?) of law school.  so we'll lose him as a piano teacher.   I have a good teacher for here in Portland, but she can't help with chamber music, which I really want to do, and just the general schooling - I want to get into orchestration  and compositon more.  I guess I was thinking that a university setting would put me in better contact with those kinds of folks - no?

[wintervind]

Graduate school is the place where one can focus on things of this nature ( comp, theory ect.) Unfortunately the above I believe is correct, music schools are looking for people who are going to win competitions, but I am sure not all are like this. The problem I see with studying privately is that one usually ends up working a job unrelated to music to help pay for the lessons and then not have the time to put in the wanted effort. On the other hand in a university setting one has the time to put into it because theoreticly one isn't working much outside of school. (i suppose this depends on how you pay for tuition)
I have heard good things about the University of Kansas, but is that considered small?

[m1469]

Most seem to focus on prepping younger students for the competition circuit, and they really aren't interested in somebody like me.  I work hard at it, and love it, though. 

The right teacher will value your individual path as a student as well as your goals as a musician.  That's all you need, but finding that kind of person is perhaps the challenge.  However, there are teachers who need to give to somebody willing to recieve, just as much as there are students needing to recieve what a teacher may have to give.  Finding somebody with similar values as yours is a step in the right direction because certain things will naturally line up.  Of course, the individual teacher you would be working with will be more important than the school itself, and I have found that the right teachers for whatever time in my life, just seem to stand out like a light.  Let us know how you go.


m1469 

[dinosaurtales]

My teacher suggested a few schools, but also said I'd never get in no matter how well I played because of my age!  (I am almost 50).  Is this really true?  It sounds horribly elitist and discriminatory from a group that openly claims to be so "liberal".  I am just sick if that could really be true.  She said they wouldn't actually SAY it was because of my age, but there would be some "problem" with the way I played,or my transcripts, or, or or. - in other words they'd find a politically corrct way to say it.   

So tell me you guys, especially the older ones.  Are musicians as hypocritical as my teacher just laid it out toi me?

[arensky]

My teacher suggested a few schools, but also said I'd never get in no matter how well I played because of my age!  (I am almost 50).  Is this really true?  It sounds horribly elitist and discriminatory from a group that openly claims to be so "liberal".  I am just sick if that could really be true.  She said they wouldn't actually SAY it was because of my age, but there would be some "problem" with the way I played,or my transcripts, or, or or. - in other words they'd find a politically corrct way to say it.   

So tell me you guys, especially the older ones.  Are musicians as hypocritical as my teacher just laid it out toi me?

As you know from my previous posts here in this topic, I take a dim view of the American approach to music in higher education, but I'm not sure it's any better anywhere else either.  I've seen the horrid scenario your teacher described happen to two different collegeaues. You're right, it is elitist, discriminatory and hypocritical. And this from "liberals". No wonder young people (under 30 I guess) in the USA have become so cynical, and take a dim view of education; they see it only as a means to a bigger paycheck, and don't have much interest in learning for self betterment, or just to know more stuff to expand your mind. And not just in music, in every field. With examples put before them like this, is it any wonder? And the "educators" scream about how they don't get any respect!

Fark 'em.....



On the other hand, m1469 is right, the right people and places will makes themselves known to you at the right time, it's been my experienece too. And wintervind is correct in his pro and con assesment of grad school. BUT it has to be the right grad school, one that wants to help you to your goal of actually learning and expanding your whole being. I wish I knew where you could go, but no place comes to mind; I  think there's a "Guru"waiting for you, at a school or just somewhere...keep us posted, the right way will find you, sometimes it's right in front of us and we can't see the beach for all the grains of sand we're looking at...

[m1469]

Dear dinosaurtales,

Here is a little more regarding all of this.

Think about if you DID go back to school.  First, you would be paying a lot of money (maybe that is not an issue for you, but still one wants to put their resources where they will be getting what they want).  And what is it that you would be getting out of it ?  There is the environment and atmoshpere of focus.  But those two things can be incredibly misleading.  What IS the focus ?  Is it truly the music, or is it about who does what better ?  Of course, it will vary from school to school.

There is also, hopefully, personal attention.  Somebody attending to your personal growth as musician and person, as arensky was commenting about earlier.  There might be listening appreciation, a studio class, private lessons, choir... the usual.  There may be high caliber musicians, people to learn from and with, friends to make contacts with and explore repertoire with.  So, you say you are interested in chamber music.  Perhaps you would find a class focused on chamber music, or a whole section of education, or a few people whom you would enjoy starting a chamber group with.  All of these things are educational and can definitely help one to improve as both musician and person.  But, when we break it all down into exactly what it is one is getting by being involved in this way, there is :

Exposure
Experience
Knowledge
Contacts

The funny thing is, you don't need to pay an arm and a leg for an institution to provide these things for you (though some of "them" would like the world to believe that).  "If you don't come to us, you are missing out on your life and what it could be" type of thing.  The truth is, you can find all of these things exactly where you are, or want to be.  Furthermore, for a person to have what they learned in school be a continuing aspect of their life, they would have to find all of these things another way after they graduate anyway. So why not start that now ?

Why not contact local strings teacher and inquire about students who may be interested in participating with you in a chamber group.  Why not meet once a week even ?  Why not start something on your own ?  All of the stuff I listed about schools, can be formed in other ways.  And who knows where these other ways might lead.  What we get out of the experiences we have, is what we put into them.  So, just start.

My latest philosophy regarding things like this goes as follows :

We already have a working relationship with all that we will have in life, and all that we will want to be.  That relationship already exists because the possibility and concept of it is already there (plus things that we never imagined, but now we are already accounting for that too ), and we are constantly relating with that possibility and concept.  It already shapes us and in a sense, guides us.  We already relate in some way with all of the things we want to do and know.  All of our dreams and hopes are in a sense being lived out and worked toward in every moment.  Similarly to the idea that, by us learning and studying one single piece of music, we are actually learning about and addressing music as a whole.  Much like working on a single measure of a large work gives us some insight into the workings of the entire piece, the entire body of music is being worked at with everything that we do in efforts to learn about it.  We may not see the bigger picture, but everything we do leads us to what we do next.  When we are active and working toward our goals, we are not truly waiting for anything nor anybody.  We cannot get there any other way.  And, we are not truly missing out on our lives.



Also, where do all of our teachers and colleagues get the information and knowledge to help us and inspire us ?  From books, learning, and experience.  You can do that too.  Life on Earth is just a huge (to our perception) school.  It feels so big to us that we often do not perceive much in the way of organization and focus.  We trust more the institution, but they cannot actually guarantee nor promise anything (and they are not designed to).

For some people, formal school is exactly the right thing.  It was for me at one point, and *may* be again.  But, what I know somewhere in me is that, my potential is not more dependent on other people inside an institution than outside an institution.   It's just a matter of using the resources we have available to us, and a school is only one form of resource.

Okay, this is long-winded, but it is a big subject.


m1469

[arensky]

Beautifully stated, and very eloquently. You are a thoughtful and wise person m1469.

More than the angry (sometimes) arensky.

Here is your guru, dinosaurtales! 

[dinosaurtales]

Thanks!  You guys are the greatest!

I still don't have the grand plan - maybe individual courses at the local university will suit my needs just fine - hell it may have to!  But it really hurts to think that in this country, in these modern times, where I constantly hear about older folks going back to school  - to study anything - that for some reason music is an exclusive club for young folks. 

At the same time I keep hearing about music schools having to cut back because they are churning out performers with no hope of getting a job.  Soiunds like the "exclusivity" is coming at a high price!  They'd better wake up and smell the coffee!