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Which is better-sounding and more expressive?

Pathetique
35 (61.4%)
Moonlight
22 (38.6%)

Total Members Voted: 57

Pathetique or Moonlight (Beethoven)? (Read 9386 times)

Offline chopintod

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Pathetique or Moonlight (Beethoven)?
« on: August 31, 2005, 03:08:46 PM »
Wondering which one to take up first.

Terry
Chopin=Amazing.  End of story.

Piano Street's Digital Sheet Music Library

Beethoven: Sonata 8 (Pathétique), opus 13
piano sheet music of Sonata 8 (Pathétique)


Piano Street's Digital Sheet Music Library

Beethoven: Sonata 14 (Moonlight), opus 27 no 2
piano sheet music of Sonata 14 (Moonlight)


Offline pianohopper

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Re: Pathetique or Moonlight (Beethoven)?
«Reply #1 on: August 31, 2005, 03:19:18 PM »
Both of these sonatas are outrageously overplayed.  The fact that many people play the Moonlight painfully slow really turns many people off (including me).  The 2nd and 3rd movements of the Moonlight are great, though, seeing as they're not played very often and are impressive too.

I love the first movement of the Pathetique for its crashing opening chords and dynamic ranges.  But the 2nd movement doesn't do anything for me.  Neither does the Rondo.  Too tame for my tastes. 

If you're only playing one movement, try the Pathetique first -- more dramatic, emotional.  If you're looking to study an entire sonata, I'd take up the Moonlight -- more virtuostic.
"Today's dog in the alley is tomorrow's moo goo gai pan."  ~ Chinese proverb

Offline chopintod

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Re: Pathetique or Moonlight (Beethoven)?
«Reply #2 on: August 31, 2005, 03:28:51 PM »
No, I'm not one of those one-movementers; I'm in it for the whole piece.  ;D

Terry
Chopin=Amazing.  End of story.

Offline phil13

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Re: Pathetique or Moonlight (Beethoven)?
«Reply #3 on: August 31, 2005, 06:57:57 PM »
Your signature rules, by the way.

Both of these pieces are truly amazing. IMO, 'Moonlight' is the better sonata. The first movement is supposed to be slow, but not dragging. The other think I don't care for is that most of the recordings play the 3rd movement way too fast. It loses its expressiveness.

It's a lot more coherent. However, I suggest that you take up the 'Pathetique' first. It's also a fabulous sonata, and it's easier overall than 'Moonlight'.

I've played both of these sonatas (still perfecting Pathetique mvt.I) but I made the mistake of playing 'Moonlight' first. It took a long time just to get it down, let alone interpret it correctly. I don't care what anybody else says, that sonata is TOUGH.

Yeah, so, that's my opinion. Start with the 'Pathetique'.
Both of these sonatas are outrageously overplayed.


That just presents a bigger challenge for interpretation. And who doesn't like a challenge? I'm perfecting 'Pathetique' for college auditions because I didn't want to chance 'Moonlight' even though I play it better.

Phil

Offline jhon

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Re: Pathetique or Moonlight (Beethoven)?
«Reply #4 on: August 31, 2005, 07:12:43 PM »
Technically, for me, Pathetique has always been more difficult than Moonlight as a whole.  (For me, the 1st mov of pathetic is harder than moonlight's 3rd.)  But in terms of musicality, I still see greater sonority, tragedy, and pessimism in Moonlight - i just love its form where it starts very slow and little by little, ends very fast - like sorrow that turned into fury!   

Offline Aziel

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Re: Pathetique or Moonlight (Beethoven)?
«Reply #5 on: August 31, 2005, 11:59:22 PM »
Pathetique Sonata - Harder (IMO). 
♪...Aziel Musica... ♪

Offline hazypurple21

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Re: Pathetique or Moonlight (Beethoven)?
«Reply #6 on: September 01, 2005, 01:13:58 AM »
Both of these sonatas are outrageously overplayed.  The fact that many people play the Moonlight painfully slow really turns many people off (including me).  The 2nd and 3rd movements of the Moonlight are great, though, seeing as they're not played very often and are impressive too.

I love the first movement of the Pathetique for its crashing opening chords and dynamic ranges.  But the 2nd movement doesn't do anything for me.  Neither does the Rondo.  Too tame for my tastes. 

If you're only playing one movement, try the Pathetique first -- more dramatic, emotional.  If you're looking to study an entire sonata, I'd take up the Moonlight -- more virtuostic.


So what if they're overplayed? Don't let that deter you from either of these if you like them. Play what you like. However, don't forget about the other 30 sonatas. Be sure to look at them at some point.
If you're going to choose one over the other, PLEASE don't do it because it's the more "virtuosic" of the two.

That said, I'd do whichever one I'd be able to gain the most from in musicality and technic. Not knowing your playing at all, I couldn't help you with that. Try each of them out a little bit. See which one you think you'd learn the most from.
Or, if you decide you like one more than the other, you should do that one.

-Steve
"There is one god-Bach-and Mendelssohn is his prophet."

Offline stevie

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Re: Pathetique or Moonlight (Beethoven)?
«Reply #7 on: September 01, 2005, 02:09:19 AM »
the pathetique i enjoy more as a complete sonata, but the 3rd movement of the moonlight is more aweosme than any part of the pathetique...so its a tough choice.

Offline Waldszenen

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Re: Pathetique or Moonlight (Beethoven)?
«Reply #8 on: September 01, 2005, 12:58:57 PM »
In my opinion, learn both, but do the Pathetique first - it's more fun to play. =)
Fortune favours the musical.

Offline bearzinthehood

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Re: Pathetique or Moonlight (Beethoven)?
«Reply #9 on: September 02, 2005, 12:05:02 PM »
IMO Op. 27/2 may be easier to get through than op. 13 but the 3rd movement of Op. 27/2 is harder to play crisply at tempo.

Offline larse

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Re: Pathetique or Moonlight (Beethoven)?
«Reply #10 on: September 03, 2005, 04:21:50 PM »
If I had to choose, I'd choose to play both, but start with Pathetique. I've played both and I remember I was never able to play the last movement of 27/2 real well...I have no idea how anyone can say that pathetique is harder than moonlight because it's per definition not. In any way at all.

Moonlight is longer as a whole, and the movements are actually connected in a special way which makes it more like one large block than three bricks, which pathetique is more like. Besides the technical skill in Pathetique does'nt even compare to Moonlight 3rd mvt.

I'd eat the pathetique for breakfast and have the moonlight for dinner. For desert I'd pick The very first one, Fm. And I'd plan a party next weekend where I'll serve Waldstein at vorspiel, Appassionata as a fine wine, booze is Hammerklavier and Op. 111 and Les Adieux for good night. The next morning I'd wake up to Op. 101.

Offline thierry13

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Re: Pathetique or Moonlight (Beethoven)?
«Reply #11 on: September 03, 2005, 04:39:42 PM »
I have no idea how anyone can say that pathetique is harder than moonlight because it's per definition not. In any way at all.

There are no "definitions" of what is hard or not. Moonlight requires really basic finger speed, and nothing else. Pathetique uses jumps, runs of the same speed, and is generally more complex than moonlight. The structure of moonlight 3rd is VERY simple. I can't see how you can find it harder than pathetique. In fact I can, I just want you to realise that it's the complete opposite for other people.

Offline arensky

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Re: Pathetique or Moonlight (Beethoven)?
«Reply #12 on: September 03, 2005, 05:15:15 PM »
Cannot answer, unknowable; today I would prefer the Moonlight (because I have to teach it in 45 minutes), tomorrow I might like the Pathetique. Two great pieces, very different.....
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Offline larse

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Re: Pathetique or Moonlight (Beethoven)?
«Reply #13 on: September 03, 2005, 10:23:22 PM »
Quote
Moonlight requires really basic finger speed, and nothing else.

??
have you even played it?

It demands so much more coordination and control than the pathetique first movement. And alot more power.. of course, if you feel that way, just you're allowed..but I cannot in any way agree.

Offline thierry13

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Re: Pathetique or Moonlight (Beethoven)?
«Reply #14 on: September 04, 2005, 12:47:46 AM »
??
have you even played it?

It demands so much more coordination and control than the pathetique first movement. And alot more power.. of course, if you feel that way, just you're allowed..but I cannot in any way agree.

For power, the FF sections of the intro beats any part of the moonlight. The coordination problems are easily solved by logical fingerings. For control, the pathetique asks much more in the runs that the right hand and left hands go very fast at the same time, after the jumps section.

Offline airasia

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Re: Pathetique or Moonlight (Beethoven)?
«Reply #15 on: January 14, 2006, 07:15:35 AM »
For power, the FF sections of the intro beats any part of the moonlight. The coordination problems are easily solved by logical fingerings. For control, the pathetique asks much more in the runs that the right hand and left hands go very fast at the same time, after the jumps section.

Actually I just finished learning specifically these 2 movements and there's no way the power in any part of the pathetique rivals the overall power of the moonlight.  Not only is the sound louder, but the sudden explosions throughout the moonlight make it much harder to play not to mention that it is already technically harder and by default faster.  Im not even counting speed though because I play pathetique allegro sections at basically the same speed as the presto agitato in Moonlight.  Maybe some of you don't play it that extreme, but the way I play it, moonlight is definitely harder and more taxing.

Offline zheer

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Re: Pathetique or Moonlight (Beethoven)?
«Reply #16 on: January 14, 2006, 08:50:59 AM »
Wondering which one to take up first.

Terry

   Very few people can play the last Mvt of the moonlight and the first mvt of the pathetique well. Not to long ago i heard a grown man play Liszt, Debussy very well, but when it came to the first mvt of pathetique he sruggled, it wasnt too ggod.
        For expression and emotion i would go for the moonlight, but for an audition, go for the pathetique. Anyone can sight read through the first 2mvt of the moonlight.
        This thread has givin me an idea i will try and relearn the most difficult mvt from these 2 sonatas, the first mvt of the pathetique.


 
" Nothing ends nicely, that's why it ends" - Tom Cruise -

Offline trueshotbarrage

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Re: Pathetique or Moonlight (Beethoven)?
«Reply #17 on: August 26, 2013, 01:46:01 AM »
I like the Moonlight, but the Pathetique sounds awesome!

Offline karenvcruz

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Re: Pathetique or Moonlight (Beethoven)?
«Reply #18 on: August 26, 2013, 02:06:19 AM »
I started with Moonlight, more because my teacher thought it would be easier for me to learn, so thatmt frustration tolerance would be higher.  Now  I am learning Pathetique, in preparation for a tecital (although I will play both).  Actually, Pathetique is sooooooooooo fulfilling, because the first part already challengrs you.  I havr to qdmit though, the third movement of Moonlight is really tough.