Piano Forum

Topic: the worst technique of all famous and professional pianists?  (Read 3592 times)

Offline stevie

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2803
firstly of course there are some piansits who arent that famous but have managed to scrape livings as concert pianists, of these which do you know having a really sucky technique?

and of all the big names, who do you think has the worst technique?

of the first category, maybe john rusnak.

and the latter, claudio arrau in his later years....painful to listen to.

Offline piazzo23

  • PS Silver Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 169
Re: the worst technique of all famous and professional pianists?
Reply #1 on: September 03, 2005, 02:41:51 AM
and the latter, claudio arrau in his later years....painful to listen to.

I donīt know what are you all people talking about when refering to technique.
Speed? That you can call fingers, dexterity, SPEED.

Technique's the way to make music not runs.


"painful to listen to." Ok, Iīve got it now  ::)

Offline brewtality

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 923
Re: the worst technique of all famous and professional pianists?
Reply #2 on: September 03, 2005, 03:33:14 AM

and the latter, claudio arrau in his later years....painful to listen to.

WRONG. Seriously, his TEs were recorded in his 70s and still show good technique. The beethoven 4th concerto vid shows his dexterity was still there when he was 80.

Offline stevie

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2803
Re: the worst technique of all famous and professional pianists?
Reply #3 on: September 03, 2005, 03:35:07 AM
I donīt know what are you all people talking about when refering to technique.
Speed? That you can call fingers, dexterity, SPEED.

Technique's the way to make music not runs.


"painful to listen to." Ok, Iīve got it now  ::)

painfully slow and inaccurate


brew, im not saying he didnt have a good technique, just that his was perhaps the weakest among the legendary so-called 'greats'

Offline brewtality

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 923
Re: the worst technique of all famous and professional pianists?
Reply #4 on: September 03, 2005, 03:41:41 AM
painfully slow and inaccurate


brew, im not saying he didnt have a good technique, just that his was perhaps the weakest among the legendary so-called 'greats'

You have to take into account the fact that he continued to record longer than almost anyone. I think plante, rubinstein and serkin had techniques inferior to Arrau at around the same age (80+) while Horowitz was superior.

Offline da jake

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 507
Re: the worst technique of all famous and professional pianists?
Reply #5 on: September 03, 2005, 04:04:16 AM
Uhh, Schnabel, Cortot, Serkin, even Rubinstein.
"The best discourse upon music is silence" - Schumann

Offline orlandopiano

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 352
Re: the worst technique of all famous and professional pianists?
Reply #6 on: September 03, 2005, 06:16:49 AM
firstly of course there are some piansits who arent that famous but have managed to scrape livings as concert pianists, of these which do you know having a really sucky technique?

and of all the big names, who do you think has the worst technique?

of the first category, maybe john rusnak.

and the latter, claudio arrau in his later years....painful to listen to.

I don't think Rusnak is a concert pianist. Isn't he a commercial music composer, who happens to like Chopin so he decided to take a stab at recording the Etudes?

Offline chromatickler

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 560
Re: the worst technique of all famous and professional pianists?
Reply #7 on: September 03, 2005, 07:17:31 AM
Technique's the way to make music.
then what is 'musicality'? the way to make music musically?  ::)

Offline Waldszenen

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1001
Re: the worst technique of all famous and professional pianists?
Reply #8 on: September 03, 2005, 09:32:03 AM
Rubinstein, Arrau and Schnabel, funnily enough, retained their amazing technique even to old age.

Bolet's late recordings are a bit dull - not by any means bad, but they don't have the life of his better ones.
Fortune favours the musical.

Offline piazzo23

  • PS Silver Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 169
Re: the worst technique of all famous and professional pianists?
Reply #9 on: September 04, 2005, 01:10:52 AM
then what is 'musicality'? the way to make music musically?  ::)

A technique is the procedure that enables you to do something, the way you do it.
In music, the tools to express your musicality.

Musicality is sensitivity to music expression. If you donīt have the appropiate technique you could not express your musicality.

Offline practicingnow

  • PS Silver Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 203
Re: the worst technique of all famous and professional pianists?
Reply #10 on: September 04, 2005, 07:45:17 AM
I can't really think of any famous pianist with a "sucky" technique...

But in fairness, we shouldn't consider anyone in his/her old age - it's not fair, and it's just bullying.  We can't consider someone whose technique has deteriorated due to age - it's like saying that somebody sucks because they have arthritis now.  Let's stick to someone in their prime...
It's a good question though - whose technique was bad in their prime?  I can't think of one...hmmmm...
Oh Wait!  I definitely know who it was   ;)
Yep - that's the answer...
Can anyone read my mind???

Offline stevie

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2803
Re: the worst technique of all famous and professional pianists?
Reply #11 on: September 05, 2005, 01:38:34 AM
forgot to add - cliburn

Offline orlandopiano

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 352
Re: the worst technique of all famous and professional pianists?
Reply #12 on: September 05, 2005, 04:55:15 AM
How about Liberace?

Offline practicingnow

  • PS Silver Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 203
Re: the worst technique of all famous and professional pianists?
Reply #13 on: September 05, 2005, 06:12:11 AM
Nobody guessed what I was thinking ...

Vladimir De Pachmann

Offline gkatele

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 210
Re: the worst technique of all famous and professional pianists?
Reply #14 on: September 05, 2005, 02:40:17 PM
David Helfgott?
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read."
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Groucho Marx

Offline thracozaag

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1311
Re: the worst technique of all famous and professional pianists?
Reply #15 on: September 05, 2005, 02:43:08 PM
Nobody guessed what I was thinking ...

Vladimir De Pachmann

 Strongly disagree.

koji
"We have to reach a certain level before we realize how small we are."--Georges Cziffra

Offline thracozaag

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1311
Re: the worst technique of all famous and professional pianists?
Reply #16 on: September 05, 2005, 02:44:30 PM
How about Liberace?

  Amid all the rhinestone, glitz and crap, he actually was a pretty good pianist.

koji
"We have to reach a certain level before we realize how small we are."--Georges Cziffra

Offline stevie

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2803
Re: the worst technique of all famous and professional pianists?
Reply #17 on: September 05, 2005, 02:45:22 PM
How about Liberace?

liberace played the minute waltz in about 37 seconds

and the tchaikovsky 1st concerto in 4 minutes, apparently ;)

David Helfgott?

possibly

Offline orlandopiano

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 352
Re: the worst technique of all famous and professional pianists?
Reply #18 on: September 05, 2005, 04:42:46 PM
  Amid all the rhinestone, glitz and crap, he actually was a pretty good pianist.

koji

Is it even possible to look past that stuff?  ;D

I thought he would be a good candidate for this thread since outside of Tchaik #1 he never played any legit virtuoso works (am I right?). That and some Chopin pieces like Polonaise op.53 and Fantasy Impromptu are all I am aware of.

That is, if you don't count the schmaltzy Roger Williams-esque glittery runs in his popular music.


Offline mrchops10

  • PS Silver Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 177
Re: the worst technique of all famous and professional pianists?
Reply #19 on: September 05, 2005, 06:43:27 PM
Couple of months ago, I heard Brendel play Kresleriana in Minneapolis--it was pretty embarrassing, technically. The sad thing is, as much as I admire some of Brendel's recordings, as well as the playing of many pianists already mentioned, I doubt many of them would make it in today's musical world. Recordings have conditioned our ears to perfection and technical stunts. I expect even more Lang Lang's, and even fewer Murray Perahia's.

P.S. How did Perahia ever record those Chopin Etudes? When I've heard him playing Mozart, it didn't seem like he could handle much more technically (it was beautiful, though.) Was it all recording studio tricks, or has anyone actually heard him perform this?
"In the crystal of his harmony he gathered the tears of the Polish people strewn over the fields, and placed them as the diamond of beauty in the diadem of humanity." --The poet Norwid, on Chopin

Offline gkatele

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 210
Re: the worst technique of all famous and professional pianists?
Reply #20 on: September 05, 2005, 06:49:46 PM
Was it all recording studio tricks, or has anyone actually heard him perform this?

See if you can find the DVD "Glenn Gould - The Alchemist"

In this video, there's a segment of Gound recording Bach - I think it was one of the partitas. He tells the engineer that he didn't like one part, but the rest was OK.

Splice it in...

Thus was born (or at least advanced) the recording artist, rather than the performing artist. That's what Gould wanted to be anyway.


George
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read."
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Groucho Marx

Offline xvimbi

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2439
Re: the worst technique of all famous and professional pianists?
Reply #21 on: September 05, 2005, 06:50:18 PM
Couple of months ago, I heard Brendel play Kresleriana in Minneapolis--it was pretty embarrassing, technically.

You have to understand, though, that when you go see Brendel, it is because you want to see the man, not really hear him play. It is clear that he is past his prime.

Offline al

  • PS Silver Member
  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 69
Re: the worst technique of all famous and professional pianists?
Reply #22 on: September 05, 2005, 06:51:40 PM
You have to understand, though, that when you go see Brendel, it is because you want to see the man, not really hear him play. It is clear that he is past his prime.

Weird, I saw him about a month ago, and he played Kreislerana almost perfectly, as well as some pretty nice Schubert moments musicaux.

Offline stevie

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2803
Re: the worst technique of all famous and professional pianists?
Reply #23 on: September 05, 2005, 11:25:45 PM
You have to understand, though, that when you go see Brendel, it is because you want to see the man, not really hear him play. It is clear that he is past his prime.

thats no excuse for him to suck balls.

horowitz recorded the wagner/liszt liebstod a couple days before he passed away, and its AMAZING.

no respect to brendel the slacker.

Offline practicingnow

  • PS Silver Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 203
Re: the worst technique of all famous and professional pianists?
Reply #24 on: September 06, 2005, 02:41:00 AM
thats no excuse for him to suck balls.

horowitz recorded the wagner/liszt liebstod a couple days before he passed away, and its AMAZING.

no respect to brendel the slacker.

Again, we shouldn't be beating down on guys in their 70's and 80's

- and yes, it IS an excuse to "suck balls" - I'm sure you too will be sucking balls in your 70's, (if you're not already)  so pucker up dude - 70 is just around the corner!   :o

Offline stevie

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2803
Re: the worst technique of all famous and professional pianists?
Reply #25 on: September 06, 2005, 04:00:27 AM
 ;D

im just saying that some piansits still manage to have kickass technique in their old age, and that an artist shouldnt slack off and not practice as much and rely on their 'past glories'.

Offline practicingnow

  • PS Silver Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 203
Re: the worst technique of all famous and professional pianists?
Reply #26 on: September 06, 2005, 07:14:20 AM
;D

im just saying that some piansits still manage to have kickass technique in their old age, and that an artist shouldnt slack off and not practice as much and rely on their 'past glories'.

I hear you - nothing sucks more than going to hear a "great pianist" and then you find out that they are not what they used to be, or even worse, not prepared.

But I think Horowitz was the exception, not the rule - generally old guys don't sound like that - he was a phenomenon right up to the end!
Nowadays though, people are staying younger and younger, so who knows Stevie, maybe when we're 70 we'll be just peaking!  Wouldn't that be cool?   8)
It's really possible...

Offline stevie

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2803
Re: the worst technique of all famous and professional pianists?
Reply #27 on: September 06, 2005, 02:12:15 PM
physically that might be impossible, technique naturally declines...but the decline can be lessened if hardwork is kept up.... but interpretavely that is very possible.
 

Logo light pianostreet.com - the website for classical pianists, piano teachers, students and piano music enthusiasts.

Subscribe for unlimited access

Sign up

Follow us

Piano Street Digicert