who is the female pianist with the best technique?

[chromatickler]

datz rite.

u know this inzane out-of-this-world sheet when da jake n zepp randomly agree wiz eachother

[ahinton]

I guess that the jury had better stay out for the time being on whether Joyce Hatto be included in this list...

Best,

Alistair

[sweet_pianistgirl]

off the top of my head there are a few that stick out

rebecca penneys - for her chopin etudes
valentina lisitsa - for her random videos
martha argerich - for many things, espcially liszt sonata, funerailles, etc

   

i think martha argerich is the best female with her technique and her musicality.her tone at the piano is  very special and very nice...especially i'm worshiping her rach and liszt!when i listen to her she is touching my soul.

and i think the second one is clara haskil,she is famous with her mozart pieces.if you haven't  heard her mozarts yet ,you must absolutely listen:)


Verda

[sevencircles]

  I'd rather listen to my dentist sing while he's drilling my teeth than listen to Hamelin.

I have to change dentist. Where does your dentist live ?

Anna Yesipova is a name worth mentioning in this thread.

Argerich finest recorded moments are propably the best female piano playing I have heard though.

Women don´t like to play fast to impress people they don´t need to do it  most of the time either.

[dreamplaying]

no, really, females in general, in my experience, have inferior technique to males.
it may only be slight, but they often lack power and a rounded forte sound.

argerich et al do NOT have a technique on the level of hamelin and libetta.

no female has their level of technique, and i have to wonder why...are females less competitive, less obsessed?

I simply cannot comprehend how anybody can affirm that Argerich has not a technique at the level of Hameline or any other male pianist … for God sake…Haven’t you heard or watched Argerich, Stevie?...She not only has one of the most full-equipment technique, but does have character and one of the most impressive musicality…a real and living phenomena.

On the other hand, it is very likely that for women is harder to perform some pieces of the vast piano repertoire at the same intensity as men do because of evident physical restrictions, but harder doesn’t mean impossible.

Gonzalo

[opus10no2]

Argerich has incredible octaves, but her fingerwork isn't in the same class as Hamelin, for example.

[nocturnelover]

She didn't seem to apply the same 'dignity' you'd require when she was boldly crying my name out in extasy through the window, during the act.

There are exceptions, but on the whole - females ARE less single minded and competitive, and therefore end up being happier with an average level of technical ability for a concert pianist.

I wonder what the biological difference between the functioning of males and females have on pianistic potential.
Basically, on average, a larger part of the females body is designed for reproductive functioning than males.
The breasts and hip size of females are there for reproductive functionality, so their bodies are, in most all sports, a slight handicap of sorts, and this is why there are always seperate competitions and events for males and females, for the differing standards.
Only the penis and testicles of the male are made for reproductive function, and apart from this, the shape of the male body is designed for everyday functionality, and athletic prowess.
Now, when it comes to the piano, I don't think anything but the lower strength, and testosterone are physical factors which effect females in this way.

Intelligence and the brain element is negligible, I only think the main difference is competitiveness and intensity of intent is more common in males.
Females are a bit less driven on average, but I think they have virtually equal brain potential.

Our reproductive cycles once again have nothing to do with playing piano, it is strength of the hands nimbleness so forth. Maybe men can play louder but women still play wonderful Forte and WOMEN ARE JUST AS DRIVEN AS MALES!!! I know because I'm a girl and a few years ago when I wanted to play classical guitar I got a guitar and within three or four months I could play all the pieces that I wanted well and i practiced NON STOP until I achieved what I wanted and for a while I was very good but then I got the chance to learn my true love piano. I said to myself that I didn't care whether it took me the rest of my life I would play like my favourite pianist who happens to be a woman, It was per chance that I heard the female pianist and I'm glad I did because I have heard males who fail in comparison to the beautiful forte of this woman. Also I heard two different pianists play Chopin's Winter Wind Etude on Youtube one was male and the other was female and they were both proper pianists professional but the male sounded clumsy and awkward in comparison to the the technical ability of the female.

[opus10no2]

I was making a generalization based on percentages, the most dedicated females are as dedicated as the most dedicated males, I would just say there are fewer of them with the same level of drive and ambition.

Anyway, as I said before, Claire Huangci shows potential to be of the level of Hamelin, time will tell, of course, but she looks like the one to watch to see what female pianists are truly capable of.

[soliloquy]

Aki Takahashi has a better tech than Hamelin, and that's a girl :O


She's randomly Xenakis virtuoso/composer Yuji Takahashi's sister.

[jakev2.0]

Annie Fischer...by about a mile.

[rach n bach]

Lisitsa.

There is simply a difference between the ways the genders play.  No, I'm not against ladies play the piano, some of them have better depth and feel than many men.  I've heard some great ladies play, but there is simply no way that they can be said to be objectively better than Hamelin and his type. 

RnB

[jericho]

Martha Argerich...do I need to say that again?

I think her technique is one of the most phenomenal ever, male or female. Admittedly, there are fewer women considered as super virtuosos(Argerich being the most famous one). Then we have less famous names like Annie Fischer who can be demonic at times. Lisitsa(some find her phenomenal while others think she is quite sloppy, I am with the latter.)

For example when asked about male supervirtuosos I can immediately think of a dozen of them: Hamelin, Hofmann, Richter, Michelangeli, Pollini, Lhevinne, Barere, Cziffra, Berman, Kissin, Horowitz, Libetta...etc.

[brahms_schumann]

Definitely Argerich!!!!

Nobody can play such technical pieces and combine it with musicality and passion , she is the best!!!

[dnephi]

Aki Takahashi has a better tech than Hamelin, and that's a girl :O


She's randomly Xenakis virtuoso/composer Yuji Takahashi's sister.

No one has better tech than Hamelin, arguably.  Especially not a woman.

[m]

No one has better tech than Hamelin...

This statement is... how to say it...

slightly exaggerated.

Besides, it largely depends on how you understand the meaning of "tech".

[dnephi]

This statement is... how to say it...

slightly exaggerated.

Besides, it largely depends on how you understand the meaning of "tech".

Except that it has the qualifying "arguably." 

Thus it's not even close to hyperbole.

Regards.

[opus10no2]

This statement is... how to say it...

slightly exaggerated.

Besides, it largely depends on how you understand the meaning of "tech".

Would it be fair to say that Hamelin has better tech than you? 

[jakev2.0]

Heh, there are many recs of our members (Thrac, Marik, electrafingers, e60, Schoen3) I'd take over Hamelin's in a heartbeat

[dnephi]

Heh, there are many recs of our members (Thrac, Marik, electrafingers, e60, Schoen3) I'd take over Hamelin's in a heartbeat

but that has nothing to do with tech.

[jakev2.0]

To be brutally honest, I think that Hamelin often fakes difficult passages by playing lightly, over-pedals, and generally lacks imagination. He can certainly play the piano, but I think his technique is largely overhyped. These claims that he possesses the greatest technique in recorded history are ridiculous. I do not consider performances like these virtuoso ones:

 

there are about 30 things I do not like about this performance...but at 1:40 / 4:07  I can literally HEAR how ruthlessly clean and incisively fast people like Rachmaninov or Hofmann would have been in this particular passage i.e., not FAKING. For anyone who knows the piece..the playing from 7:00 onwards is also embarrassingly executed.

[m]

Except that it has the qualifying "arguably." 

Thus it's not even close to hyperbole.

Maybe, however IMO, it is not close even to "arguably".

No doubt, generally, as a person with excellent calculative and intellectual abilities he has a very good control. But he lacks the most important parts of the "tech", which are sound, color, imagination, spontaneity, and just simply pianistic abandon.

[opus10no2]

he lacks the most important parts of the "tech", which are sound, color, imagination, spontaneity, and just simply pianistic abandon.

You sound like a true musician.

Yes, I use the word musician as an insult. 

[ronde_des_sylphes]

To be brutally honest, I think that Hamelin often fakes difficult passages ..

..

For anyone who knows the piece..the playing from 7:00 onwards is also embarrassingly executed.

I take it you refer to how he doesn't break the chords as written (either that, or I have both bad ears and bad eyesight).. the passage is of course much easier if you cheat like that.

[m]

You sound like a true musician.

Yes, I use the word musician as an insult. 

 
You are really something else, Opus10no2.
And thanks for a good laugh!

As for:

Would it be fair to say that Hamelin has better tech than you?  

Although it is completely irrelevant to the discussion, I will tell you I never had any technical problems and in my repertoire I have some not exactly easy pieces such as Wanderer Fantasy, Brahms-Paganini, about 21 Chopin etudes (never had patience for a few of the "easier" ones), Islamey, Don-Juan, Marriage of Figaro, Prokofiev 7th, etc. I many times played with orchestra Tchaikovsky 1st and Rachmaninov 3rd and let's put it like this, my technique is sufficient enough to execute those the way I want without spending much time on "difficult" passages.

Yes, sometimes at home I do some stupid things like playing with stop watch, but it is only for my own reference and by no means reflects my technical proficiency, or anything like that. Trust me, my timings for op10/2, op10/4, op25/6, Feux Follets, Scherzo from Midsummernight dream are faster than MOST of recorded versions I know of, so I can afford myself not to worry about it.

Best regards, M


 

[jakev2.0]

I take it you refer to how he doesn't break the chords as written (either that, or I have both bad ears and bad eyesight).. the passage is of course much easier if you cheat like that.

Not only that! Do you think he's actually playing the chords as written? 

[ronde_des_sylphes]

Point taken.. on the next page the chords are so dense it would be easy to miss one note out here and there to facilitate performance I won't critique any further as I might lay myself open to charges of hypocrisy here 

[etudes]

To be brutally honest, I think that Hamelin often fakes difficult passages by playing lightly, over-pedals, and generally lacks imagination. He can certainly play the piano, but I think his technique is largely overhyped. These claims that he possesses the greatest technique in recorded history are ridiculous. I do not consider performances like these virtuoso ones:

 

there are about 30 things I do not like about this performance...but at 1:40 / 4:07  I can literally HEAR how ruthlessly clean and incisively fast people like Rachmaninov or Hofmann would have been in this particular passage i.e., not FAKING. For anyone who knows the piece..the playing from 7:00 onwards is also embarrassingly executed.

Jake----as far as you mentioned....I really want to hear something from you....Is it possible? if not...please keep your dear legend and try to get something new apart from those old legends (I also love how they play so much) but you shouldnt stick with it! ...it is obvious about Mr.Hamelin's technique in every term....and about festin....try it by yourself dude esp.at Hamelin's speed.....(I dont even dare to)...if Hofmann did play Festin...then we can compare!!!!!!

[ronde_des_sylphes]

Jake is pretty much right, however: there are lots of small technical inaccuracies in that Festin (after that there are also interpretative issues). I certainly couldn't play it as well as Hamelin does there, but having spent a fair amount of time looking at it, I'm aware of things that are wrong, as well as short cuts/cheats that he uses.

[etudes]

Jake is pretty much right, however: there are lots of small technical inaccuracies in that Festin (after that there are also interpretative issues). I certainly couldn't play it as well as Hamelin does there, but having spent a fair amount of time looking at it, I'm aware of things that are wrong, as well as short cuts/cheats that he uses.

I personally have tried that piece already (even though...might not be as long as you) and I know the piece and the difficult spots (I might not say that I know it inside out at the piano) then see what Hamelin did on the piano is already impossible for many pianists.I just want to point out to Jake that he shouldnt stick to what he thinks it's great...they are so many things in the musical world that you dont know....more than 1000 of unknown russian pianists who can also play at the highest level....and he shouldnt dismissed one of the greatest artist such as Hamelin

[jakev2.0]

I'm an insignificant little amateur whose time spent learning the piano amounts to less than three years. Anyone can feel free to dismiss my opinion based on this if they so choose. Having listened to many recordings by many great artists, Hamelin's interpretative style does not inspire me. In regards to his technique, I think that Hamelin's isn't really even close to the great ones in recorded history (i.e., Hofmann). Hamelin's certainly more accurate than someone like Horowitz (whose technique was admittedly defective), and is able to play repertoire of greater difficulty.

But when you listen to Hamelin play the Rachmaninov Sonata 2:

&mode=related&search=

Then Horowitz:

...you find yourself scratching your head...and wondering why it is that an old man (who was severely impaired from medication) is able to summon so much more SOUND from the instrument than the young Hamelin.

This is my main issue with pianists today like Hamelin, Argerich, Pollini, Libetta...who think that just playing the notes at a certain tempo is enough to constitute incredible virtuosity. I guess they fool most people...not me.

[jericho]

About Hamelin vs. other great technicians:

1.Hofmann had greater finger technique than anyone I ever heard(yes, including Hamelin). Not only his scales and arpeggios, but his repeated notes also surpasses those of Hamelin. About his thirds, perhaps everyone is aware that Hofmann once played the Minute Waltz in thirds without losing any speed.

2.Lhevine had incredible double note/octave technique as well. Listen to his legendary Etude Op.25 no.6, La Campanella, and the Blue Danube. In addition to that he can play the octave glissando as staccato! Beat that Hamelin.

3.Michelangeli's volume and tonal control is of the highest order. He was never the showy type and he rarely competed in racing competitions. His technical control even in difficult pieces like Paganini Variations and Gaspard de la Nuit is astounding. His note to note accuracy is virtually unmatched as well.(even by his dear pupil Pollini)

4.In my opinion, the young Horowitz technique was one of the best(though not the best). Two recordings are worthy to discuss when comparing Hamelin and Horowitz. The Rachmaninov Sonata no.2(as what Jakev2.0 earlier discussed) and the Barber Sonata. In both pieces, Horowitz beats Hamelin hands down.

5. Hamelin is one of the greatest technicians of the last century, but he is not unmatched as what most people believes.

[ronde_des_sylphes]

Re Hamelin:

Firstly, of course he is an excellent technician. However, it seems to me that one of the reasons he is regarded so highly technically is the dubious logic of the argument "Michelangeli/Cziffra/Richter (etc) didn't play Alkan or Chopin-Godowsky (at least not publicly), but Hamelin does, and therefore Hamelin's technique is superior". It is a shame that such great pianists of the past didn't play Alkan's music (as I'm sure they were perfectly capable of doing - we should not forgot that Busoni was very pro-Alkan, and both he and some of his pupils did play Alkan in public).

Re female pianists with a virtuoso technique:

It occurs to me that the female pianists who are not afraid to show their technique (Argerich, Lisitsa (though I think she is sloppy), and in the 19th century, Carreno) tend to be characterised as impetuous, aggressive, and various other adjectives associated with pianistic masculinity.

[jericho]

I agree with Ronde. Any of the other great virtuosos are very capable of playing Alkan if they wanted to. Rachmaninov and Cziffra for example was said to play Alkan, and Barere also played Godowsky's most difficult pieces though he never played them in public nor recorded them. There are dozens of pianist I can think of who are also very clearly capable of playing pieces in Hamelin's repertoire if they wanted.

The dilemma about Hamelin is it that he made comparison with other pianist very difficult because of his repertoire.

[nocturnelover]

This is probably irrevalent but I saw this female pianist that was a finalist in the Chopin Competition. I think that she has fabulous technique.
She plays Chopin's Winter Etude:

I'd be interested to know what others thought

[opus10no2]

About Hamelin - his mechanism in it's prime is in the elite class.

It is extremely difficult to compare among the absolute elite techs, and so his reputation is based on his brain in combination with his fingers.

The sheer size of his repertoire and the technical level of each of the ranodm pieces in it, is to my knowledge - unmatched.

To say he has the 'best technique' would be to just judge him on his fingers and octaves, in which area - he evidently has equals.

[mephisto]

Wich pianists are that?

[opus10no2]

Ingolf Wunder, Cziffra in some ways, Lang Lang, also Libetta, and some others.

And agreed with the above, Hamelin is clever because he dominates in rare repertoire...

BUT, I have noticed when I hear others attempting the same repertoire, Hamelin still often dominates.

[daniel patschan]

Wunder just because you repeat his name over and over again or what ? Just because he does 10-2 in 1:07 or something like that (Berman is faster, Gavrilov is faster, Lugansky has the same speed - no mention of them ?!), just because he plays 25-11 fast ? Samson Francois, Gavrilov and Berman are faster - again: no mention of them, besides numerous others who we will never know. So bottom line: Wunder isn´t really something extraordinary.

[mephisto]

I think he has the fastest live 25.11. Am I wrong?

[walking_encyclopedia]

im having a hard time keeping from laughing at these ridiculous posts.

"who plays the fastest"
"nah, hes no good, berman can play faster than he can"
"cheggidout! dis guy played da minute waltz in tirds!!!"
"i can play faster than argerich"

who the hell cares! there are so many freaking pianists out there who can play fast! all the music schools are jammed with them! there's only a few with exceptional musicality combined with clean technique, and those are the ones that impress me.

i could care less if you can blast your way through all the chopin etudes faster than anyone before. this obsession with technique is getting out of hand.

[opus10no2]

im having a hard time keeping from laughing at these ridiculous posts.

"who plays the fastest"
"nah, hes no good, berman can play faster than he can"
"cheggidout! dis guy played da minute waltz in tirds!!!"
"i can play faster than argerich"

who the hell cares! there are so many freaking pianists out there who can play fast! all the music schools are jammed with them! there's only a few with exceptional musicality combined with clean technique, and those are the ones that impress me.

i could care less if you can blast your way through all the chopin etudes faster than anyone before. this obsession with technique is getting out of hand.

Would you, by an chance, be slow? 

[imbetter]

I think this thread is a little sexist as you're seperating female pianists from male pianists as if they're two kinds if pianists.

[opus10no2]

Well, is being female a handicap?

I would definately say it's possible for a female pianist to be as great as the greatest males, but there are fewer truly greats.

[etudes]

Wunder just because you repeat his name over and over again or what ? Just because he does 10-2 in 1:07 or something like that (Berman is faster, Gavrilov is faster, Lugansky has the same speed - no mention of them ?!), just because he plays 25-11 fast ? Samson Francois, Gavrilov and Berman are faster - again: no mention of them, besides numerous others who we will never know. So bottom line: Wunder isn´t really something extraordinary.

francois and Berman are much slower than Wunder's live....Gavrilov is almost the same level (op.25 no.11)
Op.10 no.2 Wunder is on the same level with Berman and Gavrilov ...much better than Lugansky!
and trust me that guy has something more than speed...I was at his recital with 6 paganini etudes (liszt) and HR2 and HR6 (quasi Grynyuk's octave) and also Gaspard de la nuit (not far from Gavrilov and Pogorelich's articulation) he has something more than you know! his rendition of Chopin's first ballade was by far the best at the competition..clean stylish singing tone and clear in every passage (even the coda...which of course the second fastest after annie fischer).
well...I know what I am talking about (esp.about the true god Wunder)


EDIT : I forgot to say one thing...that Wunder's rendition of chopin op.10 no.2 is still a bit slower that Vadim Rudenko but I prefer wunder's

[opus10no2]

[sevencircles]

About his thirds, perhaps everyone is aware that Hofmann once played the Minute Waltz in thirds without losing any speed.

The recording isn´t that impressive I think. He seems sloppy (Maybe he had been drinking)

[nocturnelover]

I think that it is pretty pointless to try and classify who is the greatest pianist, not only is opinions extremely subjective but it is a matter of personal opinion. Additionally you cannot say that one pianist is the greatest because you could never hear them all! What about future pianists? There is as much possibility of another Hamelin, Horowitz, Agerich or whoever in the future. Once you get into the great pianists it's hard to separate them mainly because personally I think then it just becomes a matter of taste and opinion.
I've heard females play as good as males and vice versa wasn't this post originally about which female pianist has the "best" technique?

[PaulNaud]

Although it is completely irrelevant to the discussion, I will tell you I never had any technical problems and in my repertoire I have some not exactly easy pieces such as Wanderer Fantasy, Brahms-Paganini, about 21 Chopin etudes (never had patience for a few of the "easier" ones), Islamey, Don-Juan, Marriage of Figaro, Prokofiev 7th, etc. I many times played with orchestra Tchaikovsky 1st and Rachmaninov 3rd and let's put it like this, my technique is sufficient enough to execute those the way I want without spending much time on "difficult" passages.

Yes, sometimes at home I do some stupid things like playing with stop watch, but it is only for my own reference and by no means reflects my technical proficiency, or anything like that. Trust me, my timings for op10/2, op10/4, op25/6, Feux Follets, Scherzo from Midsummernight dream are faster than MOST of recorded versions I know of, so I can afford myself not to worry about it.

WOW!
You've never told me all this!!!

[soliloquy]

Although it is completely irrelevant to the discussion, I will tell you I never had any technical problems and in my repertoire I have some not exactly easy pieces such as Wanderer Fantasy, Brahms-Paganini, about 21 Chopin etudes (never had patience for a few of the "easier" ones), Islamey, Don-Juan, Marriage of Figaro, Prokofiev 7th, etc. I many times played with orchestra Tchaikovsky 1st and Rachmaninov 3rd and let's put it like this, my technique is sufficient enough to execute those the way I want without spending much time on "difficult" passages.

Yes, sometimes at home I do some stupid things like playing with stop watch, but it is only for my own reference and by no means reflects my technical proficiency, or anything like that. Trust me, my timings for op10/2, op10/4, op25/6, Feux Follets, Scherzo from Midsummernight dream are faster than MOST of recorded versions I know of, so I can afford myself not to worry about it.

Best regards, M

Wow you sound like you are a really good pianist ^^  Where can we hear your Prokofiev Sonata No. 7? 



Also, all of this talk about Hamelin and Wunder.  Have they had sex change operations?  NOBODY TOLD ME?!?


Aki Takahashi and Jenny Lin have the best techniques...  Aki plays Evryali, Herma, Scelsi etc.  Jenny plays Ferneyhough, Kampela, Vivier etc.

[opus10no2]

Yes, it IS a grapefruit, and no, I will not slice it for you.