Future of classical composition

[practicingnow]

Now that atonality has run its course, do you think that we will ever see a tonal rennaisance, that is, composing that resembles the music of earlier centuries - traditional chords, clasical structures, etc.?  Possibly as kind of a reaction to modern music?
Or do not enough people even care anymore?
Curious...Thanks

[nanabush]

I hope it goes back to Romanticism/Impressionism..  I think those were the most expressive time periods (obviously) and had the most difficult music.

[dinosaurtales]

I think it won't happen, except by the ocassional university professor - no money in it.  Ever think about how long it would take to put together a major symphony, concerto, or sonata?  THere's not enough people that woiuld care that would pay the composer's annual salary to do it.  The guy would still have to eat.  He would need grant money or some source of income to allow it to happen. 

[llamaman]

You know what I think will happen? Not enough kids will play the piano over guitar, and the future of classical music will slowly die.

[ted]

Do you mean the whole of serious composition generally leap-frogging backwards and restricting itself to a few idioms of the past ? No, certainly not, I do not think so, except for occasional forays for the purposes of education and discipline.

On the other hand, if you ask whether particular composers ought to feel free to use any past style, even exclusively, in any way they please or deem appropriate to their purposes, then yes, of course, and we are already seeing it occur. Terra Verde and New Ragtime are two examples but there are many others.

Rather than view music as a historical line progressing from one fashionable state to another, I prefer to see it as a constantly widening landscape of creative options through which a composer may wander at will.

[practicingnow]

I seriously don't see any new musical language emerging anytime soon - it seems like we've really run the gamut, as far as language (i.e. by language I mean counterpoint, chromaticism,  and the genres- impressionism, romanticism, neo-classicism, etc.)
Now that atonality has seen its day, and now waned, composition doesn't seem to be going anywhere serious now.  As sad as it sounds, there doesn't seem to be anything left to be said, that hasn't been said very well already.  I don't pay much credence to composers who sound like Scriabin here, Rachmaninoff there, Schoenberg here, etc.
Can anyone convince me otherwise?  Who is composing in a truly new language, the way Bach did when he came along, or Chopin, or Liszt, or Wagner, or Debussy, or Prokofiev, or...
I would love for someone to prove me wrong.

[tolkien]

I don't think that utter originality should be the main purpose of a composition. We can't possibly assume that everything has been said in all the musical idioms that have seen the day so far. It just takes a more-than-average talent to compose meaningful and coherent musical works nowadays and we happen to live in an era where everything is supposed to be easy. Passion for music is all that matters in the end.

[mephisto]

I seriously don't see any new musical language emerging anytime soon - it seems like we've really run the gamut, as far as language (i.e. by language I mean counterpoint, chromaticism,  and the genres- impressionism, romanticism, neo-classicism, etc.)
Now that atonality has seen its day, and now waned, composition doesn't seem to be going anywhere serious now.  As sad as it sounds, there doesn't seem to be anything left to be said, that hasn't been said very well already.  I don't pay much credence to composers who sound like Scriabin here, Rachmaninoff there, Schoenberg here, etc.
Can anyone convince me otherwise?  Who is composing in a truly new language, the way Bach did when he came along, or Chopin, or Liszt, or Wagner, or Debussy, or Prokofiev, or...
I would love for someone to prove me wrong.

Ligeti and Rzewski are great contemporary composers with distinctive sound worlds. Especially Ligeti.
Music will never die and there will always be new composers with new ideas.

-The Mephisto

[alzado]

I suspect that if there are composers today who are really making their way, and doing something worthwhile, we as the public may not be seeing their work acclaimed for decades.

Like Schubert starving in a garret, etc.  He couldn't even get anyone to play some of his greatest compositions.

Satie was held in contempt as a cabaret pianist and all-around gadfly. 

We still have the "machine" to recognize classical compositions -- namely, orchestras, concert halls, world tours, the Van Cliburn competions, etc etc . 

No reason someone couldn't really "rock the world."  And be discovered when they are either elderly or dead.

[steve jones]

Now that atonality has run its course, do you think that we will ever see a tonal rennaisance, that is, composing that resembles the music of earlier centuries - traditional chords, clasical structures, etc.?  Possibly as kind of a reaction to modern music?
Or do not enough people even care anymore?
Curious...Thanks

I think the future will see significant development in timbre. This is an area where composers have hardly scraped the surface. As the technology to perform and experiement with techniques like granular synthesis, sampling, analysis / resynthesis etc, I believe it will be incorporated into more and more classical compositions. Musique Concrete on acid!

For example, read this:

https://music.ign.com/articles/637/637464p1.html

An electronic musician (with classical training) emulated granular synthesis techniques live using the string section of an orchestra.

Infact, I think film music has been far more innovative in terms of timbral development that classical music to date (which is ironic when you consider that the majority of film music has classical routes).

[rc]

I think the future will see significant development in timbre. This is an area where composers have hardly scraped the surface. As the technology to perform and experiement with techniques like granular synthesis, sampling, analysis / resynthesis etc, I believe it will be incorporated into more and more classical compositions. Musique Concrete on acid!

For example, read this:

https://music.ign.com/articles/637/637464p1.html

An electronic musician (with classical training) emulated granular synthesis techniques live using the string section of an orchestra.

Infact, I think film music has been far more innovative in terms of timbral development that classical music to date (which is ironic when you consider that the majority of film music has classical routes).

That's an interesting idea - granular synthesis... I don't think I understand it.

I agree that the future has more to do with new instruments, electronic composition. I don't see it being very live music friendly. More and more the recording is the final goal. Live, acoustical music becoming history. Never disappearing, just as Shakespear will never disappear. Just history.

You're onto something with film music as well. When you look back in history the musical styles were in service to other purposes; church, patrons, an ideology, public tastes... hand in hand, and now I see new music being used in film and also video games. A lot of final fantasy scores are a throwback to previous eras, working very nicely in the context of a game. Background music, meant to be enjoyed subliminally.

Then there are music videos. Not the disposable pop-culture, but sometimes there's an interesting artsy video on at some difficult hour that makes good use of the music.

Even our beloved historical music finds its way into popular media. One way or another laymen are all familiar with the great classics. People seem to be born familiar with Beethovens 5th. Music will always have its place.

[jas]

I think we've reached a point where anything goes. Earlier eras were restricted by societal norms, less-developed instruments, lack of electronics, patrons, etc. But none of this is the case today, so I think the concept of a musical "era" doesn't really apply anymore.

I don't think there's very much to be done that's really new. For example, Beethoven's music was a shock to his contemporaries; nothing like it had been heard before. Debussy's Impressionism, Wagner's tonalities, Schoenberg's twelve-tone technique, Stockhausen's ... stuff , they were all new, surprising. But it seems that we've reached a point where we've come so far that there's little that can really surprise us in music any more.

Having said that, the music industry never fails to surprise me with the latest piece of godawful crap it releases as a further blight on the musical scene...

Hoping I'm wrong.

Jas

[principe7613]

Infact, I think film music has been far more innovative in terms of timbral development that classical music to date (which is ironic when you consider that the majority of film music has classical routes).

I think you are very right on this point. I don't share at all this pessimistic view that we're at the end of a certain road.

I think that film music is indeed one of the most highly evolved musicgenres in our time: it uses both traditional, ethnic (improvisated) and electronically generated sounds; I'd love to see this type of composing not only as a servant to images on the screen but as an stand-alone composition. One score i think for example is very well, is the one of the movie 'Hable con ella' (directed by Almodovar, music by some Spanish composer). He uses electronics, classical sounding theme's, baroquemusic, and a heart-breaking spanish folksong (cucurrucucu Paloma) to add up to a very disctinct atmosphere which really suites the movie...
and why can't this evolve in a sort of genre that uses in real time electronics, acoustic instruments? pieces like this right now are usually still '50-like experiments about how acoustic and electronic souds go together...well, wake up guys, we know that they blend, now let's think about the quality of this newly invented cocktails, instead of always throwing in new ingredients.

always optimistic,

Joost

[Tash]

I don't think that utter originality should be the main purpose of a composition. We can't possibly assume that everything has been said in all the musical idioms that have seen the day so far. It just takes a more-than-average talent to compose meaningful and coherent musical works nowadays and we happen to live in an era where everything is supposed to be easy. Passion for music is all that matters in the end.

i totally agree with all of that. due to the wonders of my baroque music class, and learning about how their main purpose was to do with the affections and expressing the text through the music. and for bach at least, in lutheran leipzig, originality was not on the top of his mind, when he only had like 6 days to compose each cantata. and like only 6 weeks to compose the magnificat- i was highly impressed. and the author who wrote that was totally right, everything in the magnificat is a result of already used techniques and musical ideas, there's nothing terribly innovative about it, but it sounds so good!!

so anyway, i believe there is more to come, because things are always changing. give it time, just because we're here now and all this stuff has already happened doesn't mean we're at the top, because people probably thought that 1000 years ago. music will eventually change, we probably won't be around for it, but there's still so many unknown things in the world i find it hard to believe that there's nowhere to go.

the only problem is is that kids aren't taught the way they used to be in previous eras. if i was taught as a child more about composition and harmony and theory and improvisation etc. i might have more of an interest in composition now. so for my future children at least i'm going to set them up early so they aren't completley ignorant as to what music is made up of. and provided there's other people who are willing to teach the next generation about music it will continue to grow.
i have faith in the future!!