short fingers

[principe7613]

Dear people,

i've recently discovered an intriguing fact: I have a large hand, put comparatively short fingers (especially my pinky finger is like only half of my 4th finger). This influences my overall technique in a very strange way: I can play the most difficult pieces when they are written in C major (for ex Brahms first sonata, Schumann Fantasy), or other keys that require the use of only few black keys, or the opposite, like Fis or Cis major, where everything is almost only black (Skrjabin 4th sonata, ...)

Because of this fysical restriction i have often trouble to play Chopin-etudes: when one looks at photo's or drawings of Chopin's hand, one sees that he had really long fingers; So i did the black keys etude, and this was okey, and now i'm working the a minor 10/2; But most of them are really frustrating to me - for example the 1st one, where you rrrealy need long fingers, therefore not a big hand - and still i need, like everyone else from time to time good etude-repertoire.

I'm just wondering: does anyone else experienced this problem, and if so, do you know good pieces to study, pieces that suit the fysical build of the hand? I don't have any problems with flexibility, but this short-fingeredness is really bugging me from time to time; Any help welcome

greetings from Belgium

[burobbi]

you can try chopin's octave etude? op. 25 no. 10. i think it may be good for you.

[xvimbi]

I would not necessarily try to look for pieces that suit your hand, but try to develop a technique that will allow you to play any piece. The main way to compensate for the different length of the fingers is by constantly moving the hand in and out of the keyboard. You may have to focus on this type of technique. Another way that is often used is to curl the fingers. Curling is however physiologically awkward and injury-prone, so it is not recommended.

[principe7613]

well, i did practise both techniques for a while: with the curling thing it actually makes your fingerlenght even less because ones fingers are not fully stretched, plus the tension you create on the hand is indeed quite a risc; so i dropped that allready years ago... the moving inwards and outwards works for slow pieces, but here you have the problem that you touch the keys in different places, thus making it much more difficult to control the really delicat parts of the sound (resonance-wise for ex.), because you struck the balance mechanisme in different places.

It is also to practise more this moving in and out that i'm working again on the opus 10/2. But what strikes me actually is that when one plays brahms for example, you can feel that he had sort of the same hand, so big palm and short fingers, so brahms i almost sightread his stuff without problem, whereas even the most 'technically' easy pieces by chopin, such as his a minor valse brillante, give me onovercomeable difficulties...

the octave etude by chopin i played, and here the difficulties are not so much in the fast part but, and here i started to see the underlying cause of my problem, in the slow part, in B major, so a using both white and black: most lefthand chords i have to break (alltough on white keys i can reach a tenth easely) because i simply can't reach them in one grip...Pollini for example, in spite of his 'small hands' (but he must have quite long fingers), can take them at once, i simply fysically can't.

i also started for example the beethoven sonata opus 2/3, and this is piece of cake, while a simple prelude and fuge in gis by bach book 1 i have the most trouble playing evenly and with a nice sound;

comments...?

[alzado]

This may seem like an odd reply to your question, but let me say it anyway.

I often wash my hands just before I play, in part to keep my keyboard from getting grimed.

I find that I have trouble playing some pieces with damp fingers.  The situations where you need to insert your fingers between two black keys.  My damp fingers sort of semi- "stick" and there's a risk of half-keying a neighboring key.

With dry fingers, this never happens.  (I do have fairly slender fingers for a man.)

So if you have plump fingers, I can see where you could have some frustration.

[BoliverAllmon]

I don't have overly long fingers and they are on the fatter side. I have just learned to deal with it and had to figure out ways to make certain passages work with my fingers. each passage can be different. Therefore, just keep working at it.

[pianodaria]

Because of this fysical restriction i have often trouble to play Chopin-etudes: when one looks at photo's or drawings of Chopin's hand, one sees that he had really long fingers; So i did the black keys etude, and this was okey, and now i'm working the a minor 10/2;

My hand isn't big and fingers are long. I have equal troubles playing Chopin's 10/2 or 10/5, if I think about it for too long. It is good that you noticed something about your own hand, but don't keep your eye on this "disadvantage" for more than a second at a time; first, you'll get frustrated (does anyone like their reflection in a mirror, if you look too long?), second, thinking wouldn't help you. Try to combine two things in your future practicing: have a clearest musical idea/image of the piece and don't dwell on the physical part of it, and try to practice loving every moment, every movement of your body, hands, fingers, physicallly enjoy it. Probably both ways will need to be mastered separately, though.

Sincerely,
Da

[whynot]

I really appreciated the last post!  I have very small hands-- I've actually never seen a pianist with smaller hands, although I'm sure there are some out there.  But I play whatever I want.  Certainly I can recognize the pieces that fit most naturally in my hands, but I don't choose my repertoire that way.  I probably get more tactile pleasure out of playing those pieces, but I make my program choices based on the music itself, what I'm ready for and what I want to say.  I think the previous post is wise to advise that, now that you've taken note of your particular hand shape, to think musically at this point, and also to appreciate what you have.  I'm not sure from your questions whether you are looking for some compensating moves, or if you are just concerned in general about whether this will hold you back.  Bernhard has written scads of great advice about getting around the keyboard quickly, working up speed in general, and very specific teaching about arm rotation and different hand positions that might help you plan your moves and play more comfortably.  If the underlying question is about the future, I don't believe this will hold you back as a pianist, except to the degree that you worry about it and are extra self-conscious while playing.  As the previous writer suggested, when we have a very clear idea of the sounds we want to make, our bodies will often (very often) figure out how to make them.  I don't ignore the physical side of playing-- it's a huge consideration at times-- but I don't think it has to be a big factor all the time.  And since it's become a very large factor for you, perhaps this would be a good time to experiment with the complete opposite... imagine the music exactly as you'd like to hear it played, then sit down and play it.  That sounds overly simplified, and if you have moves that needed to be added to your set of skills, you'll still want to explore those moves.  But... much of the time, we aren't playing just how we want to play because we're not sending a clear message to the nerves through what we hear in our heads, what we imagine or expect.  If we send a garbled message, the nerves don't respond with clean, crisp motion; we end up moving too slowly or too much, over-trying, missing notes, and just not playing well.  Whatever physical skills we develop, they only show up in the music if our idea is clear to begin with.  Good luck!   

[steve jones]

I can relate this problem. My hands are probably anatomically well suited to playing piano... apart from my unusually short 5's. Very frustrating I must admit. But I have found that constanstly practicing a stretch does help alot. I can now just reach the 10th, whereas a month ago I couldnt.

Alzado,

You've hit the nail on the head with this post. I do the exact same thing, and find it equally as difficult to play with even slightly damp hands.

[alzado]

To Whynot--

You say you have very small hands, but have managed to play just fine.  I don't question that.

You don't say if you can span a tenth comfortably. 

Do you avoid pieces that are just riddled with tenths?  I've been playing some early Erik Satie, and some of these pieces -- like his Preludes -- are just peppered with tenths.  Half of the left hand chords are tenths.

Would you avoid this, or how would you do it?

Hope I'm not prying.  I'm curious.

BTW, glad that Steve Jones can now do a tenth.  I can do a normal tenth, but if the upper key is sharped, I have problems even with a tenth.  (Suppose that's sort of a "tenth and a half," although my music teacher insists that it's "just a tenth.)

[steve jones]

Yep, I did a little test. I decided to work on only my left hand, and see if I could develop a significant difference in flexibility. With this I hoped to prove that stretch and flexibility training could help me get the tenth comfortably.

Well, after two weeks training I can stretch a tenth with the left had, while the right (obviously) remains down in 9th territory.

Im optimistic that will time I will be able to hit this interval practically in pieces. Right now it is still too much of a stretch.

(and the b11 is just crazy talk  )

[whynot]

I don't take your question to be prying at all.  My hand is about the size that would reach an octave, I think, except I'm so stretched out that my pinky and thumb can make a straight line, which gets me to a ninth-- which I try not to play a lot, but it's okay.  About the tenths...  not possible for me! People assume I arpeggiate everything, but you can't do that all the time.  It quickly becomes predictable, and it doesn't always suit the piece.  For large intervals, here are some of the things I do: 

1.  Play the low bass as a grace note before the beat, then place the high note (or remainder of chord, whatever's leftover) at the same time as I play the RH.  You can do this languidly or very quickly, depending on the mood of the piece.  If the LH is a chord, you can play the middle note with the low bass or with the highest note, depending on when/where you want that extra strength and vigor. 

2.  Play the low bass on the beat with the RH, then the remaining LH notes afterward (again, if there's a middle note, you can pair it with either top or bottom); sometimes this timing choice sounds odd, and sometimes very natural, depends on the music. 

3.  Arpeggiation, of course, and I vary that, too. 
     a.  Roll the LH at different speeds.
     b.  Displace the start of the arpeggio to begin before the beat.
     c.  Vary which part of the arpeggio lines up with the treble (I guess this sort of goes with both
          speed and displacement, but it's another way of thinking about it).

4.  If the hands are ever written closely together, you can sometimes grab the top of the LH part with the RH.  Even if it's only possible a few times in the piece, it cleans up the LH interval a bit and makes a very subtle contrast.  You just have to keep listening and be aware that the balance should sound the same as when it was one hand, unless you want to bring something out at that moment. 

I don't know if I do other things, these are what came to mind at the moment.  Well, best wishes! 

[principe7613]

I can relate this problem. My hands are probably anatomically well suited to playing piano... apart from my unusually short 5's. Very frustrating I must admit. But I have found that constanstly practicing a stretch does help alot. I can now just reach the 10th, whereas a month ago I couldnt.

One of the thing I just wanted to point out with this topic is that there's is a difference between a big hand with short fingers and a normal hand with long fingers: the span of both kind of hands can be the same, but within they differ really in technique.

The problem is not so much wether one is able to make a certain stretch or not, the extra difficulty with this particular fysiology is the extra tension that is added while stretching your fingers: this is where the example of chopin-pieces comes in: the fact that because of shortfingeredness one always has to stretch out his fingers a little more then their natural length, adds even to 'rather easy' arabesques a lot of extra tension, so the tone doesn't become as nice as when one would be able to do it in a relaxed way;

Of course i looked for different methods to solve this. The best I found up 'till now is to improvise and compose a lot for the piano (I make my own etudes) and to see which conventional repertoire is coming the closest to my natural way of playing.

Has anyone of you guys played the transcription etudes by Brahms? I should look into them once, they seem quite close to my own etudes; I heard Sokolov once performing the chaconne-transcription for the left hand (I like it much better then Busoni's crap), but I dunno the other ones very well...