Need help filling Contemporary piece requirement

[pianote]

I recently decided to change my contemporary piece (dropped Prokofiev's 3rd sonata) but I'm still deciding on what to replace it with. I'm trying to find an advanced contemporary piece that will fit well with the rest of my repertoire

Bach- Aria Variata
Beethoven- op.110 sonata
Mendelssohn- Fantasy in F# minor, op.28
Contemporary req- ?
Etude req- Szymanowski Op.4 No.3
-----------------------------------------------------
So far the only pieces that I've considered as possibilities are
Samuel Barber- Ballade
Ginastera- Danzas Criollas

Could anyone recommend a contemporary piece of about the same difficulty as those two?

[mikey6]

You could try the Carl Vine sonata. (no.1)

[dmk]

You could try the Carl Vine sonata. (no.1)

I like that Ginastera

Vine 2 for me is better than the Vine 1.  They are both bloody hard...much harder than the Prokofiev 3....(not that this is a cakewalk!) and the Vine Sonatas are certainly harder than the Barber.

BTW....when are these for and for what??  and if there any length requirement

Some random ideas that have popped into my head (ive tried not to put into random Aussie compositions!!!):

Messiaen: Vingt Regards sur L'Enfant-Jesus numbers 6,15,19 or 20

Kabalevsky: Sonata no 3

Poulenc: Napoli Suite or Suite Francaise

Janacek: Sonata 1/X/1905

Bartok: Out of Doors Suite any movement or all of it (I recognise that this is not to everyones taste...)

Malcolm Williamson: Five Preludes

Again so many good choices....not even the tip of the iceberg here...maybe a drop of water on it!!!!

Good luck

[pianohopper]

Is Brubeck considered contemporary? -- Blue rondo alla turk?

Ravel - J'Deau, possibly?  Sonatine, I do not know if that fits the ticket, but it's there.

Something by Khacturian?  I have searched in vain for a good difficult copy of his SAbre Dance. 

A Shostakovich sonata or prelude & fugue

Francis Poulenc
Bartok didn't write just songs for children, either.
Medtner, would he be contemporary?  1880-1951.

Then, the obvious Scriabin. 

[pianote]

BTW....when are these for and for what??  and if there any length requirement

basically for the upcoming year of competitions in cali. no length requirement but I'm putting an 8 min max for the contemporary piece- just so that I won't overburden myself. thanks for all the help so far.

[pita bread]

Then, the obvious Scriabin. 

You'll run into people who say Scriabin, as well as Ravel, are not real 20th century composers, and for auditions and competitions, Ravel and Scriabin are often grouped into impressionism and late romanticism.

The Kapustin Op. 41 Varitations is about 7 minutes long, and might fit your bill if you're into classically structured works written in jazz idiom. I believe it's based off of the opening theme from Stravinsky's Rite of Spring.

[dmk]

basically for the upcoming year of competitions in cali. no length requirement but I'm putting an 8 min max for the contemporary piece- just so that I won't overburden myself. thanks for all the help so far.

Ahh...well that changes things a little

You could still do some of Bartok's Out of Doors Suite, say a couple of contrasting movements.

Poulenc's Napoli Suite has three movements (Barcarolle, Nocturne and Caprice Italien) it would take around 8 mins, maybe 20 second more.  You could play a few Poulenc Nocturnes, there are eight (I think) and you could probably find some really good contrasting ones (i personally love 5!!)

You could still perform Messiaen but if you would like under 8 mins it will have to be something shorter like 5,11,13,17 or 18....Messiaen is probably a little more run of the mill though

Pita Bread's Kapustin is not a bad idea...really there's lots out there.....

good luck

dmk

[burstroman]

Try Ginastera, you can't go wrong.

[4tissimo]

I'm not intimately familiar with all of the pieces you cited, but for a contemporary piece of some difficulty, how about a Charles Ives "Sonata?"

[pita bread]

That sonata is so long...

[stevie]

hahaha, i really get annoyed when things like ives are called contemporary.

thats like brahms considering beethoven a contemporary...

[ahinton]

That sonata is so long...

Which one? of the three, you presumably do not mean the "three Page" one?

Best,

Alistair

[stevie]

i have only heard the concord, which is apparently a monster.

hamelin unleashes pwnage upon it, and it submits willingly to his dominatrix style technique.

[ahinton]

I had thought that the original post was an enquiry about a "contemporary" piece. Not only is the Prokofiev sonata that the poster has "dropped" from his programme not "contemporary" (the composer died more than half a century ago) but so very many of the suggestions that have followed are in no sense "contemporary" either. Most of the composers named have been dead for upwards of 13 years (Messiaen being the 1992 one although, even in his case, the suggested pieces date fromk the first half of the 1940s) - some for much longer; even Janácek has been mentioned!

So - "contemporary" with whom? - one may ask. If I remain "contemporary" until some three quarters of a century after my death, I would expect those who still considered me to be so to have lived very long lives indeed...

It seems to me that the originator of and most respondents to this post have sought to confuse "contemporary" with "20th century" - a strange thing to do in the first decade of the 21st century, surely? Of course I accept that there is no hard and fast universally accepted dividing line between what could be considered "contemporary" and what not, but perhaps for this purpose all future suggestions might reasonably be restricted to music written in the past half century?

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

hamelin unleashes pwnage upon it, and it submits willingly to his dominatrix style technique.

What is "pwnage" - and what is the common factor between a dominatrix's activities and the pianistic technique of Marc-André Hamelin?

Best,

Alistair

[pita bread]

Which one? of the three, you presumably do not mean the "three Page" one?

Best,

Alistair

Yeah, I meant the Concord Sonata.

[ahinton]

Yeah, I meant the Concord Sonata.

OK - well, looking at what I imagine to be the aim of the originator of the thread - i.e. an end-of-year recital at a university or conservatoire (and I stand corrected if need be on this), Ives's "Concord" would obviously be too long and the Three Page too short; one might then consider his first sonata, except, of course, that none of them are remotely "contemporary", being of 80+ years' vintage. If we're talking American music, why not Carter's "Night Fantasies"? - quite long, I suppose, for this purpose, but maybe not too much so and challenging indeed. This piece is more than a quarter century old now but at least it's by a real contemporary (and still creatively active) composer!

Best,

Alistair

[prometheus]

I agree with Alistair. Surely, contemporary means a composer of our time or piece written in our time. You could say that must mean that they are still alive or the work was written while we were alive.. Though you could also make a case for music written after 1990 or maybe even after 1980. Interpretation of contemporary may depend on the age of the person defining 'of our time'.

You either use modern and contemporary or 20th and 21th cencury.

[stevie]

What is "pwnage" - and what is the common factor between a dominatrix's activities and the pianistic technique of Marc-André Hamelin?

Best,

Alistair

'pwnage' in internet speak means the same as 'ownage', which means he is master over it, he owns it.

and well, this was meant to be a humourous analogy, if quite random...a dominatrix's 'client' is overwhelmed and submit's to the dominatrix's dominance...the client is forced to submit and take the punishment that is inflicted, without retaliation.

this is what Hamelin does when playing piano, the pieces submit to his dominatrix-esque technique, they seem to put up no resistance, therefore i feel the analogy is fitting.

[ahinton]

'pwnage' in internet speak means the same as 'ownage', which means he is master over it, he owns it.

and well, this was meant to be a humourous analogy, if quite random...a dominatrix's 'client' is overwhelmed and submit's to the dominatrix's dominance...the client is forced to submit and take the punishment that is inflicted, without retaliation.

this is what Hamelin does when playing piano, the pieces submit to his dominatrix-esque technique, they seem to put up no resistance, therefore i feel the analogy is fitting.

OK - well, thanks for the elucidation, anyway. I get the first part of it OK; as to the second part, I find the analogy less humourous than extraordinary and I wonder whether you might consider running it by M. Hamelin himself, in all seriousness, to ascertain what he might make of it. I have to say in the meantime that the notion that every work that finds its way into his repertoire is merely some kind of slave in waiting is bizarre at the very least - even if for no better reason than that it would take an uncommonloy athletic imagination to conceive of a line of of potential dominatrix clients including Rzewski, Rakhmaninov, Roslavetz and Reger, Sorabji and Skryabin, Bernstein and Busoni, Grainger and Godowsky, Marx, Medtner and Martinů or Hétu and Hamelin himself...

Best,

Alistair

Best,

Alistair

[stevie]

im sure if i ran it by him he would appreciate it.

predicted reaction -

[ahinton]

im sure if i ran it by him he would appreciate it.

predicted reaction -

Knowing his sense of humour as I have done for almost two decades, I have little doubt that he might, on one level at least, be amused, though to what extent he would also "appreciate" it as any kind of serious assessment of his pianistic approach may well be quite another matter altogether.

Now perhaps it would be good to return - if return is indeed needed at all - to the original subject of the thread...

Best,

Alistair

[rob47]

if you contact rzewski's people they will send you a lot of Rzewski's stuff. i recommnd the ballades.

[stevie]

Knowing his sense of humour as I have done for almost two decades, I have little doubt that he might, on one level at least, be amused, though to what extent he would also "appreciate" it as any kind of serious assessment of his pianistic approach may well be quite another matter altogether.

Now perhaps it would be good to return - if return is indeed needed at all - to the original subject of the thread...

Best,

Alistair

well, yes indeed, but im interested to know what Hamelin might think of another piano forum known as 'da SDC'

https://dasdc.net/forum.php


as you can see, this forum uses profuse amounts of randomness and talks in a pseudo-street style.
they primarily discuss randomness, sexual and comedic matters, and virtuoso pianists-
particularly those gifted with 'speed' and 'fury'.

Hamelin is considered so highly there that his face is even used as an emoticon.

his name (all pianists have SDC nicknames) on da SDC is 'da DOC'.
variations include 'DRE' and 'da DOCTAH'

wondered what Hamelin would think of this. 

[mephisto]

This is true.

But back to the original question. What about playing a Hamelin etude. I am studying Hamelin`s own hilarious Scarlatti etude. Me and my teacher did especially love one of the markings put in the score: These notes COMPLETLY expressionless like those low honks in Spike Jones` records.

This piece is probably ten times easier than the average contempory piano piece and it doesn`t even use 10 staves. Only two. How ridicilous when all other contemporary composers have found out that you at LEAST should use 4.


An mp3 is available on Hamelin`s homepage and the score is available throug me and I am willing tompost it here if it is legeal.


-The Mephisto

[ahinton]

well, yes indeed, but im interested to know what Hamelin might think of another piano forum known as 'da SDC'

https://dasdc.net/forum.php


as you can see, this forum uses profuse amounts of randomness and talks in a pseudo-street style.
they primarily discuss randomness, sexual and comedic matters, and virtuoso pianists-
particularly those gifted with 'speed' and 'fury'.

Hamelin is considered so highly there that his face is even used as an emoticon.

his name (all pianists have SDC nicknames) on da SDC is 'da DOC'.
variations include 'DRE' and 'da DOCTAH'

wondered what Hamelin would think of this. 

Yes - all very "funny", of course - but instead of "wondering" what Marc-André Hamelin might think of this, why not try to address your enquiry to him rather than merely expressing this particular aspect of your apparent wonderment on this forum?

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

This is true.

But back to the original question. What about playing a Hamelin etude. I am studying Hamelin`s own hilarious Scarlatti etude. Me and my teacher did especially love one of the markings put in the score: These notes COMPLETLY expressionless like those low honks in Spike Jones` records.

This piece is probably ten times easier than the average contempory piano piece and it doesn`t even use 10 staves. Only two. How ridicilous when all other contemporary composers have found out that you at LEAST should use 4.


An mp3 is available on Hamelin`s homepage and the score is available throug me and I am willing tompost it here if it is legeal.


-The Mephisto

While you're having fun learning no. 6 from Marc-André Hamelin's projected set of 12 studies in all the minor keys, would you be so kind as to desist from posting any of them here or anywhere else, since M. Hamelin has given to us the responsibility for providing copies of five of the seven so far composed to whomsoever wants them (that's nos. 1, 3, 6, 9 & 10 - no. 12 being available from a different publisher already and no. 4 soon to be so from another publisher).

Many thanks.

Best,

Alistair

[da jake]

That logo is simply ghastly. Who could have created such a monstrosity? 

[stevie]

Yes - all very "funny", of course - but instead of "wondering" what Marc-André Hamelin might think of this, why not try to address your enquiry to him rather than merely expressing this particular aspect of your apparent wonderment on this forum?

Best,

Alistair

well how do i express my enquiry to him?

and alistair i am very excited about this new etude - no4, can you give any information about it?

does he plan to record it?

and why hasnt he recorded the etude no1 - bumblebee?

of course i would ask him myself, if this is too much bother, but isnt  he quite a busy guy? 

[ahinton]

well, yes indeed, but im interested to know what Hamelin might think of another piano forum known as 'da SDC'

https://dasdc.net/forum.php


as you can see, this forum uses profuse amounts of randomness and talks in a pseudo-street style.
they primarily discuss randomness, sexual and comedic matters, and virtuoso pianists-
particularly those gifted with 'speed' and 'fury'.

Hamelin is considered so highly there that his face is even used as an emoticon.

his name (all pianists have SDC nicknames) on da SDC is 'da DOC'.
variations include 'DRE' and 'da DOCTAH'

wondered what Hamelin would think of this. 

An equally "random" glance at the abovementioned forum suggest to me that it might matter little what M. Hamelin or indeed any serious pianophile might think of the said forum; the fact that it chooses, for reasons or none known only to its moderators / contributors, to adopt le visage de M-AH "as an emoticon" surely tells us far more about it than it does about M-AH.

Serious piano-oriented fora are for serious seekers after pianism; the forum you mention is - er - well, it surely "speaks" for itself...

Lest I may be perceived as being unduly humourless and/or pompous in so saying, may I simply add that the Hamelins, Grantes, Powells, Argerichs, Pollinis, Libettas and so many mores of this world devote such vast quantities of time and energies of all kinds toward the respective perfections of their art that, at the very least, it behoves the rest of us to treat what they do with due respect and ask questions in a spirit of genuine and potentially profitable hoped-for discovery?

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

well how do i express my enquiry to him?

and alistair i am very excited about this new etude - no4, can you give any information about it?

does he plan to record it?

and why hasnt he recorded the etude no1 - bumblebee?

of course i would ask him myself, if this is too much bother, but isnt  he quite a busy guy? 

The new étude is based on two Alkanic motifs suggested some years ago by some Scottish composer of his acquaintance and, as I understand it, it will first become available via the French Société Alkan - as soon as M-AH feels ready to let this happen; we have a ms. copy of it here but cannot issue copies of it for the reason stated above (and what the Société Alkan will issue will be a typescripted version which we do not yet have ourselves in any case).

If you want to make a direct enquiry to M-AH, please do so via his agent's website.

I'm sure he'll record his new étude eventually; I just cannot tell you when that will be.

He hasn't even performed no. 1 of the series ("Le Vol du Bourdon") yet, let alone recorded it; I hope he will do some day.

Yes - he's a VERY "busy guy".

Best,

Alistair

[stevie]

well, a closer look at the forum will reveal that the members of this community treat these great pianists with the utmost respect(or as they would say - respect).

it is simply an alternative, very 'loose', piano forum.

the members are evidently very serious about piano, but also enjoy making random sexual jokes and randomly swearing frequently.

to my knowledge, this is not uncommon among great pianists.

[stevie]

The new étude is based on two Alkanic motifs suggested some years ago by some Scottish composer of his acquaintance and, as I understand it, it will first become available via the French Société Alkan - as soon as M-AH feels ready to let this happen; we have a ms. copy of it here but cannot issue copies of it for the reason stated above (and what the Société Alkan will issue will be a typescripted version which we do not yet have ourselves in any case).

If you want to make a direct enquiry to M-AH, please do so via his agent's website.

I'm sure he'll record his new étude eventually; I just cannot tell you when that will be.

He hasn't even performed no. 1 of the series ("Le Vol du Bourdon") yet, let alone recorded it; I hope he will do some day.

Yes - he's a VERY "busy guy".

Best,

Alistair

thats very interesting, im presuming the 'scottish composer' is you? or maybe not..

i genuinely think he is a GREAT etude composer.

not to degrade his talent at all, but he has admitted himself that he isnt the greatest composer in the world, per se, but in this format - using themes by other composers and reworking them in a sort of godowskian way, he has no modern equal to my knowledge.

so in essence, he may not be the greatest 'theme' composer, but his gift for variations(especially evidnet in the campanella etude) is awesome.

is it too nosy of me to ask which 2 alkan themes he is using in this piece?
i am especially interested in this because alkan happens to be my favourite piano composer.

[ahinton]

well, a closer look at the forum will reveal that the members of this community treat these great pianists with the utmost respect(or as they would say - respect).

it is simply an alternative, very 'loose', piano forum.

the members are evidently very serious about piano, but also enjoy making random sexual jokes and randomly swearing frequently.

to my knowledge, this is not uncommon among great pianists.

I daresay that some of its contributors are indeed serious in their pianistic pursuits; that said, the considerable differences in overall content quality between the various fora purportedly dedicated to matters pianistic cannot be denied.

Great pianists can indulge - and indeed have indulged - in all sorts of things, but it is not unreasonable to assume that any forum dedicated to serious pianistic matters is - or ought to be - endeavouring to attract at least a reasonable proportion of serious commentary not just about individual pianists but about piano repertoire, practice disciplines, instrument manufacture, design and maintenance and all the other many and varied concerns that may arise in the mind of anyone genuinely interested in the immense world of that wondrous instrument, the piano.

Best,

Alistair

[stevie]

I daresay that some of its contributors are indeed serious in their pianistic pursuits; that said, the considerable differences in overall content quality between the various fora purportedly dedicated to matters pianistic cannot be denied.

Great pianists can indulge - and indeed have indulged - in all sorts of things, but it is not unreasonable to assume that any forum dedicated to serious pianistic matters is - or ought to be - endeavouring to attract at least a reasonable proportion of serious commentary not just about individual pianists but about piano repertoire, practice disciplines, instrument manufacture, design and maintenance and all the other many and varied concerns that may arise in the mind of anyone genuinely interested in the immense world of that wondrous instrument, the piano.

Best,

Alistair

of course, and thats what this forum is for.

da SDC is a hangout for those people wanting to unwind and take part in random funny(to some) conversations related to pianists and anything else on their minds.

not for everyone, but it doesnt claim to be what it isnt, it is the 'yin' to pianoforum's 'yang' , if you will.

[ahinton]

thats very interesting, im presuming the 'scottish composer' is you? or maybe not..

i genuinely think he is a GREAT etude composer.

not to degrade his talent at all, but he has admitted himself that he isnt the greatest composer in the world, per se, but in this format - using themes by other composers and reworking them in a sort of godowskian way, he has no modern equal to my knowledge.

so in essence, he may not be the greatest 'theme' composer, but his gift for variations(especially evidnet in the campanella etude) is awesome.

is it too nosy of me to ask which 2 alkan themes he is using in this piece?
i am especially interested in this because alkan happens to be my favourite piano composer.

Since you mention it, the identity of the Scottish composer concerned is precisely as you have assumed it to be.

You are right both in your assessment of a certain particular talent of M-AH and in what you say about M-AH's attitude to himself as a composer, although the question of whether he has more to offer than commentaries - however skilful they are - on the music of certain others may remain open to question and future discovery.

Your "nosiness" is for you alone to assess in terms of its extent and/or justification; while you are so doing, I will gladly tell you what I have already given away on one of these fora (it may even have been this one but I really don't have time to go check) that the themes are drawn from the openings of the E flat minor study from Op. 39 (the finale of the "Symphonie") and the "mouvement semblable et perpetuel" study which is the third and last étude in Op. 76.

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

it is the 'yin' to pianoforum's 'yang' , if you will.

Whether or not I will, may I ask if its "yin yin" might be the foil for this and other piano fora's "Lang Lang"?

Oh I WISH I hadn't felt obliged to think of that - but I did wonder if it might nevertheless be a worthwhile idea to demonstrate that I do have a sense of humour, even if it as deeply flawed as the above example makes all too abundantly clear...

Now - perhaps this thread could try to find its tortuous way back to dealing with the original enquirer's enquiry...

Best,

Alistair

[prometheus]

Haha.

Well, I think we will have to wait for pianote. If she/he could list the actual requirements of contemporary that will help a lot.

[stevie]

about the hamelin alkan etude - WOW!

those are 2 of my favourite pieces, im very excited to see and hear what its like!

and im also very excited about the other future etudes in the series he may compose, maybe something related to other great composers he is associated with, scriabin perhaps..

Whether or not I will, may I ask if its "yin yin" might be the foil for this and other piano fora's "Lang Lang"?

Oh I WISH I hadn't felt obliged to think of that - but I did wonder if it might nevertheless be a worthwhile idea to demonstrate that I do have a sense of humour, even if it as deeply flawed as the above example makes all too abundantly clear...

Now - perhaps this thread could try to find its tortuous way back to dealing with the original enquirer's enquiry...

Best,

Alistair

randomly, da SDC is one place where LangLang is worshipped like a god, for his awesome technique, and general insanity...and in case you havent seen it -

this -

https://datazz2.free.fr/longdong_comedic.avi

 

[pianote]

Haha.

Well, I think we will have to wait for pianote. If she/he could list the actual requirements of contemporary that will help a lot.

sorry for the ambiguity. but, the actual requirements are pretty vague too. say for example my romantic piece's composer lived during the early romantic era... then I could probably use an impressionistic composer for my contemporary piece . But, this year I'm using Mendelssohn so my contemporary piece's composer should probably have been born in 1900 and on. sorry for not clarifying that earlier 

[dmk]

I had thought that the original post was an enquiry about a "contemporary" piece. Not only is the Prokofiev sonata that the poster has "dropped" from his programme not "contemporary" (the composer died more than half a century ago) but so very many of the suggestions that have followed are in no sense "contemporary" either. Most of the composers named have been dead for upwards of 13 years (Messiaen being the 1992 one although, even in his case, the suggested pieces date fromk the first half of the 1940s) - some for much longer; even Janácek has been mentioned!

So - "contemporary" with whom? - one may ask. If I remain "contemporary" until some three quarters of a century after my death, I would expect those who still considered me to be so to have lived very long lives indeed...

It seems to me that the originator of and most respondents to this post have sought to confuse "contemporary" with "20th century" - a strange thing to do in the first decade of the 21st century, surely? Of course I accept that there is no hard and fast universally accepted dividing line between what could be considered "contemporary" and what not, but perhaps for this purpose all future suggestions might reasonably be restricted to music written in the past half century?

Best,

Alistair

I agree with you but considering that Barber is on the menu and Prokofiev was dropped I certainly took the term contemporary to be a very 'loose' term and general mean the 20th century.

I have not putting anything abstractly Australian (although there is LOTS of good stuff here like Elena Kats-Chernin, Brenton Broadstock and Wendy Hiscocks...which I am happy to suggest:))

If we would like contemporary to mean living (or recently deceased as in the case of Williamson)

Vine: 5 Bagatelles

Williamson: 5 Preludes

Dr. John Sharpley: Toccata

Stephen Hough: Etude de Concert (La Russe)

good luck

dmk

[pianowelsh]

Rautavaara 'fire sermon' sonata!

[burstroman]

I recommend playing 2 contrasting etudes by Ned Rorem.

[pseudopianist]

Messiaen: Vingt Regards sur L'Enfant-Jesus numbers 6

[Bouter Boogie]

Check out some pieces of Rodion Shchedrin. His Humoresque sounds terribly cool!

- BB