how to get my wrist relaxed? :-\

[desegel]

Hi..
I have a few questions:
first, the wrist problem - when i play the fantasie impromptu,
my wrist get realy tired and i have a big problem playing the piece accurately
because of my hands getting tired.
what should i do to solve this problem?
secondly, i have a major problem of low self-asteam when i play the piano.
i practice alot but i still cant get hard things (like impromptu or even sonata pathetique)
perfect, and it really bothers me and sometimes i seriously concider to just quit.
because after 8 yrs of learning, i can only play chopin's noctrnes\waltzes\mazurkas
etc..  not hard enough pieces.

I just want your opinion or maybe even a solution.
thank u so much.

[xvimbi]

Please clarify: what do you mean by saying the 'wrist is getting tired'. Only muscles can really get tired, so I assume there is something else you are describing. Hands can get tired indeed.

Concerning your second issue: what is it that you are looking for? Do you want to be able to play hard pieces, or do you want to play beautiful pieces and generally enjoy yourself making music? Difficult pieces are not required for the latter.

[shasta]

Relax your shoulders.  Let them drop.  Consciously think "fall, fall, fall, fall..." as you play.

Tension/scrunching in the shoulders tightens up everything downstream, including the wrist.  You might be inadvertently scrunching your shoulders as you play - - - this constricts lots of important nerves and blood vessels which supply the arm, neck, shoulders, back....

Tight muscles leads to tight playing

Tight muscles constrict happy fresh oxygenated blood to other muscles downstream

The lack of happy fresh oxygenated blood to other muscles downstream leads to anoxic conditions

Anoxic conditions leads to those suffocating muscles having to toggle over to anerobic respiration in order to generate oxygen and energy

Anerobic respiration produces the byproduct lactic acid, which is what causes the burning sensation

[desegel]

hey, first of all thanks for your replies.

and to be more clear - my hand muscles hurt, i have misexpressed myself.

I'll try to relax my shoulders-thanks for the advice.

and as for the question about hard pieces -  look i love making, playing, and composing
music. it's an enourmous part of my life - and i very much enjoy playing beutiful (but
not that hard) pieces.  but the inability to play hard things, really frustrates me
and it makes me unhappy of my progress and makes me doubt seriously about my
talent.

I have really small hands (if i strech my hand i can get only to octave+1 barely)
and i have also problem with my legs that i cant put my ankle on the floor
and press the pedal by only moving down my leg a bit-my leg is always in the air.
but it never stopped me from playing,especially not the leg problem which i handle
very well and i can assure you it's not my problem.
but my small fingers are really a big problem for me. i have a hard time playing wide
accords etc. , and the speed is a problem especially when the keys are far
away from eachother (like the impromptu).
but i still wanna play that piece, because i'm doing generaly ok, you can listen
here: https://planet.nana.co.il/polandpics/fi2.mp3   , but many times i just make a mistake
in the middle of the speedy parts - and that kinda ruins it.

what annoys me is that;at some days i can play it perfectly and some days
i just cannot make anything right.  And i do not know the reason for it...

[pianistimo]

sounds like you might need a sort of shortened pedal.  they are advertised on a different thread. can't remember where.  i think under 'instruments' i posted something on pedals for kids.  if you are short you can use this to your advantage, i would think.

in terms of practice, and stopping and starting...try taping yourself and then playing along.  it gets you into the mode of not stopping - but thinking ahead to the next place you can begin again.  people don't like to hear something repeated over and over (if you can't get past the spot).  they want you to get through the piece and make mistakes sound like they weren't really much to worry about.  (for many people, it's likely if you are stuck on a passage, you'll keep getting stuck there unless a miracle happens and you remember the note or chords).

take confidence in an older student like me.  i have just recently STARTEd learning chopin etudes.  i was (i thought anyway) good at mozart and beethoven, but not so good at chopin.  now, with the help of a great teacher, i can see myself in a better light.  it makes you feel so good about yourself when you get the advice you need to move forward.  maybe you need some better coaching on the chopin or whatever you are trying to accomplish.

[xvimbi]

and to be more clear - my hand muscles hurt, i have misexpressed myself.

See below.

and as for the question about hard pieces -  look i love making, playing, and composing
music. it's an enourmous part of my life - and i very much enjoy playing beutiful (but
not that hard) pieces.  but the inability to play hard things, really frustrates me
and it makes me unhappy of my progress and makes me doubt seriously about my
talent.

Fair enough.

I have really small hands (if i strech my hand i can get only to octave+1 barely)

There are not a whole lot of muscles in the hand, so one can potentially narrow this down. The biggest muscles are those that move the thumb and the little finger. All other muscles are merely auxiliary. In any case, the muscles in the hand should not be used that much. Most of the action comes from muscles in the forearm and higher up. Could it be that, because of your small hands (they are not that small, by the way), you often stretch too much resulting in playing with cramped hands? This will tire out the muscles, although they are actually not doing any serious work.

and i have also problem with my legs that i cant put my ankle on the floor
and press the pedal by only moving down my leg a bit-my leg is always in the air.
but it never stopped me from playing,especially not the leg problem which i handle
very well and i can assure you it's not my problem.

OK, I believe you, although it may still be something you should work on. Keeping the leg in the air requires muscles in your back and around the abdomen to do work. This will (severely) restrict the freedom of the torso, which is very important for fluent play. Don't be surprised if your pedaling technique has bearings on your hands. In addition, control over your pedaling should be quite reduced, but you may have perfected your technique so much that you may be able to overcome this.

I am not sure what the issue is, but a common problem is mismapping of the ankle joint. One can easily think that the foot pivots around the heel, because that's where it touches the floor when it is used for pedaling. However, the foot really pivots around a point somewhere further towards the front. Anyway.

but my small fingers are really a big problem for me. i have a hard time playing wide
accords etc. , and the speed is a problem especially when the keys are far
away from eachother (like the impromptu).
but i still wanna play that piece, because i'm doing generaly ok, you can listen
here: https://planet.nana.co.il/polandpics/fi2.mp3   , but many times i just make a mistake
in the middle of the speedy parts - and that kinda ruins it.

OK, this now makes me even more suspect that you may be stretching your hands too much. There is not much one can do for chord playing. One has to stretch, but one should minimize the time spent in the stretched position as much as possible. Essentially, try stretching, and locking the hand position only at the last moment, i.e. when the fingers touch the keys, and immediately relax your hands as soon as possible. For larger intervals, move your hand, do not stretch (i.e. do not "reach for the next note").

Of course, that may not be your problem, but it is good advice nevertheless

what annoys me is that;at some days i can play it perfectly and some days
i just cannot make anything right.  And i do not know the reason for it...

We all suffer from this

[desegel]

pianistimo: thank u for replying.
about what you said - well i wouldnt even concider a short pedal.. i play @ yamaha U1
and im inlove with that thing and i wont let anyone do things to it, and its pedals 
but like i said before - believe me, the pedal isnt my problem. i put the chair on a carpet
so it's pretty convenient to use it.
and i dont think chopin is the problem because i LOVE chopin and most of the things
i ever played were chopin, i connect with his music in a way that i cant even explain.
if there's any composer that i master at, it's chopin :]  so i think it's just a technical
problem related to the impromptu.
and you're right about the "keep on going" way of thought, and i'll try to use it.

xvimbi: 1st of all many thanks.   i think ur right about streching my hand to much,
i'll work on it.. that's why i prefer pieces that are not challenging in the technical way-but
the emotional way.. i'll try to move my hand more rather than streching it.

about the leg-its an orthopedic problem which does not relate to any mismapping of
my ankle, but like i said before i handle it very well and i put the chair on the carpet
so it defenately helps me. now its not a  problem anymore- after 8 yrs of playing the
piano, i got rid of that problem at the very beginning.

but i think the streching is the real problem. thank u so much, i'll try to work on it
and make the problem disappear. thanks also for making me feel better about my
playing, cuz i was kinda depressed about that issue 

[xvimbi]

but i think the streching is the real problem. thank u so much, i'll try to work on it
and make the problem disappear. thanks also for making me feel better about my
playing, cuz i was kinda depressed about that issue 

Shouldn't that have been a , instead of a ?

[desegel]

LOL 

thanks