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Topic: "Passion"  (Read 2342 times)

Offline moon12

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"Passion"
on: September 27, 2005, 10:37:13 PM
Hey there - I'm new here. :) I've come here primarily because I'd like to discuss an aspect of performance that seems to be largely undocumented - that being, the transformation of consciousness during performance into that "musical" state of being.

I've sure you've all seen pianists playing "passionately", but for me, that state of awareness transcends a mere passion. In my short number of experiences of this state, it seems to be like a very spiritual experience. I feel this intense energy moving throng my body uncontrollably. I experience true freedom.

However, I haven't experience this very much and I'm wondering if anyone has any pointers/advice for entering this state. I try to become more aware of my body, and direct my awareness into what I see and hear; without judgement or labelling. But this doesn't seem to work very much...

Any ideas?

Offline ted

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Re: "Passion"
Reply #1 on: September 27, 2005, 10:44:39 PM
Yes, that state is the whole reason I play, listen, improvise and compose. It's what music is all about for me. I cannot see any reason why I would bother with music if I didn't enter that state all the time. What else is there ?
"Mistakes are the portals of discovery." - James Joyce

Offline moon12

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Re: "Passion"
Reply #2 on: September 27, 2005, 10:46:13 PM
But how do you enter it? I'm finding it tricky.

Offline ted

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Re: "Passion"
Reply #3 on: September 27, 2005, 11:01:37 PM
Ah ! Oh dear ! I was rather hoping you wouldn't ask that but knew you would anyway. I'm not at all sure it can be taught in so many words. It took me over ten years when I was younger and I never really understood until middle-age. I have sent you a private message which may be of interest.
"Mistakes are the portals of discovery." - James Joyce

Offline thierry13

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Re: "Passion"
Reply #4 on: September 28, 2005, 07:41:54 PM
Asking this is like saying how can I feel sadness, how can I feel hapiness, how can I cry, how can I move my arm, how can I turn my eye. All is in the natural instinct of the brain. If you can't enter this state, you don't understand the music nor it's point. Too, playing too easy pieces is boring enough, and it's hard to enter this state with some easy pieces. Try hard intense pieces to get the first feeling. When you'll know what the feeling is, you will be able to feel it in non-intense works, but that are beautiful. Don't try to get this feeling by playing Bach's menuet in G.

Offline pseudopianist

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Re: "Passion"
Reply #5 on: September 28, 2005, 08:06:53 PM
Don't try to get this feeling by playing Bach's menuet in G.

I love that piece  :'(
Whisky and Messiaen

Offline spirithorn

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Re: "Passion"
Reply #6 on: September 28, 2005, 08:50:30 PM
Wow.  Welcome, moon12.  A very interesting post.  I agree with Ted that this mysterious "state" is what music is all about.  I've experienced what you're talking about (I think) on occasion, and I wish I knew how to do so voluntarily everytime I played.  For me, first of all, the piece itself has to have a certain profundity, and it has nothing at all to do with how difficult or easy it is technically.  Perhaps the composer was in this "state" when it was conceived.  I like your term, "a 'musical' state of being".  There is most definitely a difference in experiencing "organized sound" that PASSES for music, and MUSIC itself.  A teacher of mine once expressed it this way:  (in this state) "you are not playing the music... the music is playing".  This is all so subjective.  Anyway just some thoughts.  Thanks for the post.
"Souplesse, souplesse..."

Offline thierry13

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Re: "Passion"
Reply #7 on: September 28, 2005, 09:16:27 PM
I love that piece  :'(

How much you like it, it can't put you in the state described.

Offline moon12

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Re: "Passion"
Reply #8 on: September 28, 2005, 11:31:41 PM
Thank you all for your thoughtful posts.

In the Eastern spiritual traditions, particularly Zen, this "musical state of being" could be said to be "the infinite divine reflecting itself through art and human creation". In the context of Western religions, one would say that God is expressing himself through music, and the performer. In the context of rational scientific thought, it would be described as a state of ecstasy.

I have found that becoming more aware of the subtle energy in your body, and being totally aware of the music in a state of thoughtless awareness can help induce this state - but as I say, I'm still experimenting. I've managed to do this while playing the first movement from Beethoven's Moonlight sonata, since I can play it without any thoughts or the concentration that's required with more difficult pieces of music.

Thanks again for everybody's two cents; and please try what I mention in the paragraph above - you just may have a beautiful new experience!

Offline pseudopianist

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Re: "Passion"
Reply #9 on: September 30, 2005, 02:42:48 PM
How much you like it, it can't put you in the state described.

How so?

Can't get in that amazing state of mind by playing something simple?
I can
Whisky and Messiaen

Offline spirithorn

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Re: "Passion"
Reply #10 on: September 30, 2005, 04:53:01 PM

Can't get in that amazing state of mind by playing something simple?
I can
Quote

I totally agree.  It can happen with a Bach two part Invention.
"Souplesse, souplesse..."

Offline lostinidlewonder

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Re: "Passion"
Reply #11 on: October 01, 2005, 12:54:11 AM
The closer you listen to yourself produce sound the more your mind moves into a higher state. If we are distracted by the physical action to produce the sound, then we may spend less time in musical ecstacy since our mind is consciously aware of the physical action thus taking away that free musical state of mind.

I would think the closer we listen to ourselves produce sound the more aware we become of sound. This can cause a strange effect. I often spin out when I feel a statement along the lines of, "This is me, creating sound.", while closely listening to myself play.

It has been proven that "classical" music especially Mozart sends the human brain into an Alpha state, which encourages an increase state of awareness and relaxation. It wouldn't suprise me if we took an EEG (electrical signals of brain) reading of a pianists  while they play and we would see changes similar to Alpha state.

https://www.wkyt.com/Global/story.asp?S=1483992

might be an interesting article about how science is studying brain waves and piano playing without looking at hands.

[German researchers using brain imaging have determined it doesn't take people decades of practice to learn to play piano phrases without having to look at their fingers. That hand-to-ear link starts to form within minutes of starting to learn piano.... The study also found an area of the brain in the right anterior region was more active in the map group (People in the first group -- called the map group -- used digital pianos where the five neighboring keys had appropriate notes assigned to them. People in the second group -- the no-map group -- used pianos where the assignment of notes to the five keys was shuffled after each training trial) than in the non-map group. This may be the area of the brain where the piano key map is established.]

"The biggest risk in life is to take no risk at all."
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