ok when composing.

[BoliverAllmon]

when you first start out composing most of it is crap.(that is the stage that I am in) My question is where is a good place to get constructive criticism on your works? I have talked to a couple of people and they just tend to tell me that my works are crap. Well duh! How do you fix it? Where is the guidance?

thanks

boliver

[Tash]

that's a good question, i have no idea! but i would prefer to be told that my works are crap than being told it's cute and then given 19/20 for it- like seriously they were crappy compositions, and my teacher told me half the chords in it were wrong (back in the good old days when i knew bugger all about harmony) and still gives a freakishly good mark- it's wrong i tell you! go find a famous composer and ask them how they go about their composition process. like find someone's email and email them- dunno if they'd reply or not, but i once emailed a well known australian artist cos i was using him as an influence and he actually replied, i was highly impressed. mmm talking to those who do it professionally is good

[dmk]

that's a good question, i have no idea! but i would prefer to be told that my works are crap than being told it's cute and then given 19/20 for it- like seriously they were crappy compositions, and my teacher told me half the chords in it were wrong (back in the good old days when i knew bugger all about harmony) and still gives a freakishly good mark- it's wrong i tell you! go find a famous composer and ask them how they go about their composition process. like find someone's email and email them- dunno if they'd reply or not, but i once emailed a well known australian artist cos i was using him as an influence and he actually replied, i was highly impressed. mmm talking to those who do it professionally is good

who was that Tash? Just out of curiosity (PM me if its easier!).  Aussies seem to be good @ this, I couldn't find the score to something, e-mail the pianist who recorded it and he gave me a virtual essay on why I couldn't find it anymore and sent it to me!

[ted]

Boliver:

I think you have to be very careful about making value judgements of your own creations, and even warier of taking to heart simplistic assessments of other people. It's not just a question of knowing a lot or "bugger all" about something. Do these creations say what you wished to say ? Do you love them ? Do they embody something in you which just had to find its way out before you burst, or have you composed simply for the sake of producing a composition you can call your own ? In the end these things are more important than knowing a lot or bugger all. If you really have to choose between being hard or easy on yourself then choose to be gentle; you have years ahead of you yet. Plenty of time.

[Tash]

who was that Tash? Just out of curiosity (PM me if its easier!).  Aussies seem to be good @ this, I couldn't find the score to something, e-mail the pianist who recorded it and he gave me a virtual essay on why I couldn't find it anymore and sent it to me!

Neil McIrvine, he's a melbourne based artist, paints these lovely nude women in really textured surfaces https://www.neilmcirvine.com.au/
wow that's impressive about the pianist, i should do something like that sometime, just for the fun of it. or go talk to dene olding and ian munro at the orchestral choir rehearsals- do you know how cool it is to have full professional instrumentalists playing for our choir?!! we have like principal members from the sydney symphony and stuff i was like OMG this is the coolest.

another thought bolliver, you could compose a pop song, play it to a bunch of 14 year old girls and they'll think you're the greatest person on the planet, if that's your type of thing...

[BoliverAllmon]

Neil McIrvine, he's a melbourne based artist, paints these lovely nude women in really textured surfaces https://www.neilmcirvine.com.au/
wow that's impressive about the pianist, i should do something like that sometime, just for the fun of it. or go talk to dene olding and ian munro at the orchestral choir rehearsals- do you know how cool it is to have full professional instrumentalists playing for our choir?!! we have like principal members from the sydney symphony and stuff i was like OMG this is the coolest.

another thought bolliver, you could compose a pop song, play it to a bunch of 14 year old girls and they'll think you're the greatest person on the planet, if that's your type of thing...

14 y.o. girls UMMMM....not really my thing.

[phil13]

I've been composing for 3 years, and I remember the first year. I turned out work after work and each one was just crap after crap after crap.

I suggest a few things:

1. Look back on your music and see if it's complex or simple. Simple usually produces better music at first, until you fine-tune your composing skills. Just look at Beethoven. His earlier sonatas are relatively simple compared to, say, Appassionata, Hammerklavier, Op.111, even Pastorale (which was an earlier work than the other 3). If it's too complex, you're trying too hard too early. That was my problem.

2. Decide what kind of music you want to compose, and go for it. I've had several teachers try to talk me into using weird scales, atonality, and various 20th-century techniques, but I continue to compose Romantic music because the harmonies are so beautiful to me, and because I don't like to make my music wander much.

3. Keep going even if you think it's crap, and SAVE IT. I've saved just about everything I've ever written, including little 2 or 3-line motives. Trust me, you'll want to go back and use them eventually, and they might end up not sounding so bad after you've been composing for a few years.

4. Put your compositions up in the Audition Room. I can't talk from experience because I've never DONE it before, but if you can record your piece into an mp3 and post it there, you'll probably get some constructive criticism from others here on pianoforum. We're not here to bite your head off, after all.

Other than that, go ask John Carey. I'm sure he'll have something to say that will be quite different from me, but then he's been composing longer and he'll also give good advice.

Good luck!

Phil

[BoliverAllmon]

thanks for the advice.

[earl]

I just joined a forum the other day...

www.youngcomposers.com

(They are not age limited; more like tailored for the beginning/non-professioinal composer.)

It's a forum like this one except focusing on composition, of course. During my couple of days of lurking I get that there are people just starting out on up to 10 years of experience, etc., and all age levels.

They have several "audition rooms" where you can post your composition(s) (piano, chamber music, orchestral music, and so on) and others will comment. A lot of the comments I've seen are what you might expect - Warm and fuzzy  praising but usually they will be specific about why they liked something.

You can ask them to be brutally honest and you will probably get some specifics on what doesn't work. Bear in mind that the level of expertise (and therefore knowlegeable criticism) will vary, but there are some regular contributors who are quite experienced.

I plan on contributing in the near future. What kind of music are you interested in writing?

Earl