New Shigeru Kawai SK6

[barganax]

Hi All,
As a follow-up to my posts of a couple months ago, I wanted to let you know that my SK6 arrived at the dealership, I played it, and it was wonderful. It will be shipped to my home in the next month or so.

My full story is at https://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/11840.html

[allthumbs]

Greetings barganax

Thanks for sharing your post with this forum. It was a very interesting and informative read.

I am starting the process of deciding which piano to buy, but I'm still about 2 years away before I will be in a position to make such a move.

Over the last little while, I have looked at as many 7 footers as possible. I have tried Steinway, Petrof, Bosendorfer, Estonia, Schimmel, Kawai RX, Baldwin, Knabe, and Yamaha. All nice pianos, some spoke to me, some not as much.

Out of this group, I had tentatively narrowed it doen to Schimmel 213 and the Kawai RX6.

I have yet to try the Shigeru SK6, as the dealer I went to had only the SK3, which was a very nice piano, but it didn't have the depth that the 7 foot pianos I tried had.

After reading your post, I am definitely seeking out a dealer who has one in stock and rethinking my choice.

Thanks again,

Cheers

allthumbs

[barganax]

Allthumbs,
You will have a very hard time finding an SK6. Apparently most or all were bought up by a conservatory in Montreal. I doubt that there is any existing stock remaining in the USA. I was told that I got one of only two that entered the USA in September, and only another 3 or 4 will arrive before the end of the year.

If I were you I would call Kawai to find out where you can play an SK6. BTW you might have an easier time finding an SK7.

[Axtremus]

barganax, congratulations on your decision on a piano, thanks for the update, and hope you'll receive it in great shape within the expected time frame.

Considering there are only about 200 or so Shigeru pianos made a year, and I bet they'd make more of the smaller ones than the big ones, and then you have to spread the production output throughout the world... well, it shouldn't be too surprising that people find it hard to track down a big Shigeru to play. Oh well.

[kawaidon]

I have yet to try the Shigeru SK6, as the dealer I went to had only the SK3, which was a very nice piano, but it didn't have the depth that the 7 foot pianos I tried had.

Hi Thumbs,

Barganax is correct, the SK-6 pianos are rather rare in North America right now, but we have tried to make sure the dealers have SK-5 and SK-7 pianos.  I'm new to this forum so I didn't catch your location.  You might want to e-mail me at work and let me know where you are, I'll try to help.

Don Mannino
Kawai America

[allthumbs]

Hi Thumbs,

Barganax is correct, the SK-6 pianos are rather rare in North America right now, but we have tried to make sure the dealers have SK-5 and SK-7 pianos.  I'm new to this forum so I didn't catch your location.  You might want to e-mail me at work and let me know where you are, I'll try to help.

Don Mannino
Kawai America

Check my profile.

EDIT - Vancouver, BC

[suz]

barganax, congratulations!! I'm so glad you found the piano you were looking for.

[classicarts]

Why would you buy a piano that has a same action as the RX's for more money?  Yes, it might have a different sound board and hammers, but that's alot of dough your putting out for a upgrade version of Kawai's RX's.

[Axtremus]

Why would you buy a piano that has a same action as the RX's for more money? Yes, it might have a different sound board and hammers, but that's alot of dough your putting out for a upgrade version of Kawai's RX's.

Well, I suppose I can quote this guy (whom I happen to agree with) as a response:

... you have to buy what you want, and what is right for you and that's the bottom line.

And:

The fact the matter is, we all have different taste and conception about what sounds and feels good to us. We may take people's recommendations but the final choice comes down to you.

Some people just figure it's worth it to make the leap for the Shigeru. As a matter of personal preference, based on all the RX and SK pianos I have played to date, I would too as soon as I get to SK-5 and larger pianos. Though there is a fair chance that I might prefer a larger RX-5/6/7 pianos to smaller [SK-2/3] SK pianos. Again, just personal preference with my subjective "musical performance bang for the buck" valuations of these pianos factored in.

Yamaha also has their "upgraded" version (using your terminology) called the "S-series." If you get a chance to play either the S4 and/or the S6, it would be interesting to know if you think it'd be worth it to "upgrade" from C-series to S-series.

[classicarts]

To answer your question, Sir Axtremus. I would not spend that kind of money on a Yamaha.  Frankly, if I had that kind of money to spend on a paino, I would seriously look into a Steinway, Bosie,Fazioli,or Estonia's.     No "S" series for me babe, for that kind of serious money. But, of course, your always right.  Wait until his mortgage arrives, that sweet sound of his Kawai won't be sounding so sweet after all. Ohhh, those sleepless nights. I'm verrrrry happy with my Yamaha.   Sweet dreams, all.  Don't let that bed bugs bite you.

[Axtremus]

classicarts,

In the US, the money for S-series Yamaha or Shigeru pianos won't be enough to actually get a comparably sized Steinway, Bosie, or Fazioli -- far from it. And if you can afford a new C5, then you can afford a new Estonia 190 already. If you can afford a new C3, then you can also already afford a new Estonia 168.

That said, I do very much agree with you that mortgage and such do have higher priority over a fancy piano, at least for most folks who do have a mortgage or rent to pay and kids to raise. Otherwise, heck, I would have loved to have gotten that Fazioli F-228 into my living room.

Incidentally, I am also very curious about how you value different pianos. For instance, on what bases do you come to conclude that Steinway, Bosie, Fazioli, and Estonia are some how worth extra "serious money" that those "upgraded" Yamahas and Kawais are not? Just curious.

[barganax]

Thanks Suz.
It was very helpful to talk with other Shigeru owners such as yourself. Nothing better than finding out what people think after they have lived with their instruments for a while.

Ax,
I agree with both of your posts.

[classicarts]

Axtremus, do you consider "S" series Yamaha's or Shigeru's  top class pianos?  And if you do, I think you have answered and  corrected yourself of your own statement.  Regarding your second statement, I never said they weren't.  I agree a price of a new C5 is comparable to new Estonia's 190, and so forth with their smaller models.  And for you last question, I'm not going to answer that, your asking me a mouthful.  I'm not going to sit here an hour and explained to you every details about  each and every piano what I like about them or dislike about them, and how I came up with this statement.  I will tell you, I think it's silly to pay a premium prices for a Kawai or Yamaha if you can get a Steinway, Bosie, or Fazioli's, considering they're about the same cost, differences of few dollars. 
 

[Axtremus]

classicarts,

Thank you for your responses up to this point. I certainly would not (and realistically cannot) hound you to share your detailed opinions on different pianos if you'd rather not do that. No problem at all.

To answer your question on whether I consider the S-series or Shigeru to be their respective manufacturers' "top class" pianos -- not really, these days, I do not like to think of pianos in terms of "class." I just play them, and then make a subjective call on how much I figure I might like to use different pianos for different applications. And that's usually where I come from when discussing the relative merits of different pianos.

As to your comment on whether it is "silly" to pay premium prices for a Kawai or Yamaha if you could get a Steinway, Bosie, or Fazioli for roughly the same cost -- in most cases, I believe I would much prefer a $30k Yamaha/Kawai to a $30k Steinway/Bosie (don't think there's any Fazioli at $30k, or any Steinway/Bosie below $20k, not even upright), I would also much prefer a $40k Yamaha/Kawai to a $40k Steinway/Bosie/Fazioli. I would say the same for $50k. Beyond that, I don't think Yamaha/Kawai has anything more expensive to offer until we hit the concert grands (where we'll be looking at the $100k range). That's a whole different ballgame and I have not play enough non-Steinway concert grands to say which way I might lean. Again, mostly personal preferences. If that seems silly to you, that's OK.

(barganax -- my apology for derailing your announcement thread.)

[classicarts]

Again, Axtremus you have contradicted yourself.  In my other post, you have clearly distinguished Estonia's as being less than Steinway's, Bosie's and Fazioli's.  And on this post, you are saying competely different.  Talk to your friend from Kawai and ask him about it.   

[gfiore]

 Ax, the only two Bösendorfer models that can be bought new for under $50,000 are the 130 vertical and the CS200. All the satndard polished ebony models with 20% off begin at $65,000 and go up with size.

[Axtremus]

classicarts, just to clarify, my previous post clearly distinguished that the Estonias are LESS EXPENSIVE THAN Steinways.

gfiore, thanks for the info. I did assume a much more aggressive discount for those pianos. Going by your numbers, I can certain bump the whole Bösendorfer line-up up another $10k~$20k. Thanks again.

[allthumbs]

Allthumbs,
You will have a very hard time finding an SK6. Apparently most or all were bought up by a conservatory in Montreal. I doubt that there is any existing stock remaining in the USA. I was told that I got one of only two that entered the USA in September, and only another 3 or 4 will arrive before the end of the year.

Thanks for the info barganax. I live in Vancouver, BC, so I have a feeling there won't be any in Canada.

If I were you I would call Kawai to find out where you can play an SK6. BTW you might have an easier time finding an SK7.

Hey, I'd go for that idea. I believe always go up in size, if you can't find the model you want!

Cheers

allthumbs

[violinist]

Hi All,
As a follow-up to my posts of a couple months ago, I wanted to let you know that my SK6 arrived at the dealership, I played it, and it was wonderful. It will be shipped to my home in the next month or so.

My full story is at https://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/11840.html

Hello Barganax,

I noticed on one of your posts that you have played on a SK in California.  I was told by one of the Kawai dealers where I live (central valley) that there's only one dealer in California who Carried these pianos but wasn't sure which dealer.  I was wondering if you could point me in the right direction.  I'd like to try this wonderful piano.

- Calvin

[barganax]

Violinist,
Carnes Piano is in Palo Alto, CA. I went there many months ago. At the time they had an SK2 (Classic Noblesse), an SK7, and, I think, a used SK3. You should definitely call if you are thinking of making a long trip from the Central Valley. I don't know what they have in stock now.

I am surprised by the comment that there is only one Shigeru Kawai dealer in California. Isn't their main US headquarters in Southern CA? (Rancho Dominguez). I would be surprised if there is not a dealer in Southern CA.

[violinist]

Violinist,

I am surprised by the comment that there is only one Shigeru Kawai dealer in California. Isn't their main US headquarters in Southern CA? (Rancho Dominguez). I would be surprised if there is not a dealer in Southern CA.

Hmmm... sounds like perhaps the Kawai dealer here doesn't have their facts together.  I'd trust info from here more than I would from some of the local piano dealers.  But thank you so much for the info.  Next time I'm headed out towards Stanford, I'll have to give Carnes Piano a call.

I can't wait to hear about your piano and maybe you'll post some pictures?

[barganax]

Hi Violinist,
Yes, I will post pics when it arrives. Hopefully within a month. My piano is on a truck now. The dealer immobilized the action, so I feel reasonably comfortable about it. I just hope the truck does not sit in a harsh cllimate for too long enroute. I am going to have a dampp-chaser installed by a dealer in Albuquerque before having it shipped to my house in Santa Fe.

I remember reading about your piano search and that you chose a Steinway B. I really liked some of the B's that I tried. I found them to have a lot of variability with regard to sound, but some I thought were superb. And I like the action too. Steinway, Bosendorfer, and Kawai/Millenium III were my 3 favorite actions.

[violinist]

Hi Violinist,
Yes, I will post pics when it arrives. Hopefully within a month. My piano is on a truck now. The dealer immobilized the action, so I feel reasonably comfortable about it. I just hope the truck does not sit in a harsh cllimate for too long enroute. I am going to have a dampp-chaser installed by a dealer in Albuquerque before having it shipped to my house in Santa Fe.

I remember reading about your piano search and that you chose a Steinway B. I really liked some of the B's that I tried. I found them to have a lot of variability with regard to sound, but some I thought were superb. And I like the action too. Steinway, Bosendorfer, and Kawai/Millenium III were my 3 favorite actions.

[violinist]

Hi Violinist,
Yes, I will post pics when it arrives. Hopefully within a month. My piano is on a truck now. The dealer immobilized the action, so I feel reasonably comfortable about it. I just hope the truck does not sit in a harsh cllimate for too long enroute. I am going to have a dampp-chaser installed by a dealer in Albuquerque before having it shipped to my house in Santa Fe.

I remember reading about your piano search and that you chose a Steinway B. I really liked some of the B's that I tried. I found them to have a lot of variability with regard to sound, but some I thought were superb. And I like the action too. Steinway, Bosendorfer, and Kawai/Millenium III were my 3 favorite actions.

Sorry about the above empty message.  I pressed the wrong key!!!  Just like on the piano.. too many wrong notes.  Too many wrong keypresses.

I don't know much about that damp chaser thing.   I wonder if I need it.  In the central valley it gets and stays pretty dry.  I have a violin also that needs humidity.  I currently have about 150 plants in my house to help with the humidity.   But I do have a humidity gauge in my violin case which shows that I'm still on the dry side.    I wouldn't mind having more plants but it takes like an hour to water the plants.

I also like the action on the steinway, bosendorfer, mason hamlin, shimmel, and now I just tried the Kawai / millenium 3 which I like as well.  I have no regrets whatsoever about my steinway B.  I love it.  And the sound is getting brighter as I play on it more and more.  I'm just now in a habit of playing other piano and tuning my ear and hands to piano differences.   Because of your posts on the Shigeru, I got to get my hands and ears on one of these animals.

Meanwhile, I'm still chugging along on the piano with no teacher...  Hard to juggle a job as a trauma and general surgeon and have predictable times for piano lessons. 

[allthumbs]

Sorry about the above empty message.  I pressed the wrong key!!!  Just like on the piano.. too many wrong notes.  Too many wrong keypresses.

If you look at the top right of your post, you'll see a Modify button that you can use to add or correct anything in your post.

[classicarts]

classicarts,

Thank you for your responses up to this point. I certainly would not (and realistically cannot) hound you to share your detailed opinions on different pianos if you'd rather not do that. No problem at all.

To answer your question on whether I consider the S-series or Shigeru to be their respective manufacturers' "top class" pianos -- not really, these days, I do not like to think of pianos in terms of "class." I just play them, and then make a subjective call on how much I figure I might like to use different pianos for different applications. And that's usually where I come from when discussing the relative merits of different pianos.

As to your comment on whether it is "silly" to pay premium prices for a Kawai or Yamaha if you could get a Steinway, Bosie, or Fazioli for roughly the same cost -- in most cases, I believe I would much prefer a $30k Yamaha/Kawai to a $30k Steinway/Bosie (don't think there's any Fazioli at $30k, or any Steinway/Bosie below $20k, not even upright), I would also much prefer a $40k Yamaha/Kawai to a $40k Steinway/Bosie/Fazioli. I would say the same for $50k. Beyond that, I don't think Yamaha/Kawai has anything more expensive to offer until we hit the concert grands (where we'll be looking at the $100k range). That's a whole different ballgame and I have not play enough non-Steinway concert grands to say which way I might lean. Again, mostly personal preferences. If that seems silly to you, that's OK.

(barganax -- my apology for derailing your announcement thread.)

How about $130.000 for a Kawai EX?  Stop talking crap!!

[Axtremus]

How about $130.000 for a Kawai EX?  Stop talking crap!!

Not sure what it is you're asking me about the Kawai EX or what is it that you specifically object to with the quoted passage. Despite the EX's $130,000 list price, I doubt it will realistically sell for that much -- with very few exceptions (of which I doubt the EX is one), most pianos do get discounted from their "list prices." Other than that, I cannot comment on the EX for the simple reason that I have never played one. If you have first hand experience with the EX that you care to share, I would love to hear it.

[violinist]

Hi All,
As a follow-up to my posts of a couple months ago, I wanted to let you know that my SK6 arrived at the dealership, I played it, and it was wonderful. It will be shipped to my home in the next month or so.

My full story is at https://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/11840.html

Did it arrive at your house yet?

Anyway,  Barganax told me a place where I could try these Shigeru's in Northern California.

I went there.  And I played on a whole fleet of Shigeru's.

I loved them all. 

Here are my impressions:

Compared to a Steinway B (my piano).

They have a more bell like tone  - more like a Bosendorfer.   I like that tone!

In general, as they were voiced in the store, they have a brighter tone.

The action is light and responsive but not as responsive as my New York Steinway.  I'm testing these out with my trills and also got opinions from a super good professional pianist that I went to the store with (she's one of my piano accompanists - only when I beg her to play piano for my violin, she just sight reads everything when we play - amazing).

The piano is very beautiful.  They had one the noblese? that had different color panels of wood.

Then I played on some Kawai RX's with M3 action.  I still so much more preferred the Shigeru's sound and action.  Even though they said the aciton was similar.  They really felt different.

I asked the pro pianist about the action. She said that to go from a steinway (in general) to a Shigeru, you have to purposely "work less."  Which she said would be hard for her to get used to.   I'm not sure what she means by this.  But that was her comment.

[violinist]

Overall,

I loved the Shigeru's.   A fine fine piano!

I of course still love my steinway B.

Too many piano's to love. 

[gfiore]

 What your pianist friend meant was the Kawai actions were more sensitive than the Steinway actions. Her words were "I had to work less". Meaning it took less effort to play on the Kawai.
 I have to agree, the M3 actions are very well balanced, allowing faster repetition.