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Topic: What finger on what key?  (Read 2164 times)

Offline mackforever

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What finger on what key?
on: July 24, 2003, 08:06:10 PM
I'm a newb piano player, and have problems with a part of a piece...

Im suppose to play (going left on the keyboard)

e, d#, d, c#, c, b, a#, a, g#, g, f#, e, f#, e, d#, e


But havent got a clue what finger to play what key...

(excuse my crappy english :/ )

Offline Hmoll

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Re: What finger on what key?
Reply #1 on: July 24, 2003, 09:48:19 PM
1) What is the piece you are playing,?

2) How fast is it supposed to be played?

3) Is the passage you describe for the left hand or the right hand?
"I am sitting in the smallest room of my house. I have your review before me. In a moment it will be behind me!" -- Max Reger

Offline mackforever

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Re: What finger on what key?
Reply #2 on: July 24, 2003, 10:24:02 PM
Quote
1) What is the piece you are playing,?

2) How fast is it supposed to be played?

3) Is the passage you describe for the left hand or the right hand?


1) Fantasie-Impromptu

2) ...very!

3) Right hand

Offline Hmoll

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Re: What finger on what key?
Reply #3 on: July 25, 2003, 05:23:58 PM
Quote


1) Fantasie-Impromptu

2) ...very!

3) Right hand


What measure is this?

In the meantime, try this:

5 4 3 2 1 3 2 1 4 3 2 1 3 1 2 1
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Offline allchopin

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Re: What finger on what key?
Reply #4 on: July 25, 2003, 10:32:09 PM
hehe i see youve reached the chromatic sections. almost to the fun part! ok heres the easiest way to do this:
the thumb obviously hits the low octave note first, then:
5 4 1 3 2 1 3 1 3 1 3 2 1.. and so one, im assuming you know how to finger a chromatic scale... basically use your weak fingers as little as possible until your powerful thumb and index have time to get over there.
A modern house without a flush toilet... uncanny.

Offline Hmoll

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Re: What finger on what key?
Reply #5 on: July 25, 2003, 10:58:19 PM
With all due respect to allchopin,  1 3 1 3 1 3 is not the best fingering for rapid descending chromatic scales.
It's fine if the tempo is slow, which is why I asked about your tempo originally, but becomes uneven in a fast tempo.
1 3 1 3 1 3 might be easy for some people to learn initially, but I have always found it to sound uneven at a fast tempo because of the constant crossovers.
Try it if you want, but the fingering I provided should be more facile and even.

What I suggested is also the standard fingering for the rapid descending chromatic scale at the beginning of Beethoven's Op 13 sonata.
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Offline ghgjff

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Re: What finger on what key?
Reply #6 on: July 25, 2003, 11:02:36 PM
Fantasie-Impromptu has got to be one of the most chilling songs in my mind, yet it is beautifully written. I enjoy hearing it very much.

Offline allchopin

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Re: What finger on what key?
Reply #7 on: July 26, 2003, 01:44:37 AM
what do you mean by crossovers- this seems to work perfectly for me. i would think that using every type of finger in a chromatic scale would be undeven, because not all of your fingers are equal strengths, therefore it would be like ff,f mf,f,p,mp,f etc, while using consistent fingers would sound, wel, consitsten.
A modern house without a flush toilet... uncanny.

Offline mackforever

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Re: What finger on what key?
Reply #8 on: July 26, 2003, 03:00:28 AM
I guess a lot of you guys reading this have played the Fantasie-Impromptu many times...

How do you guys play this section...?

...man - my fingers just arent fast enough!

Offline Hmoll2

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Re: What finger on what key?
Reply #9 on: July 26, 2003, 07:03:59 PM
Quote
what do you mean by crossovers- this seems to work perfectly for me. i would think that using every type of finger in a chromatic scale would be undeven, because not all of your fingers are equal strengths, therefore it would be like ff,f mf,f,p,mp,f etc, while using consistent fingers would sound, wel, consitsten.


If that fingering works perfectly for you, then why are your chromatic scales as slow as they are - as you posted in the other thread?
Crossing over means  your fingers are crossing over your thumb - the way they do an diatonic scales.
The more cross overs you have, the more bumps you will have, and the more your passage work will be uneven.
Just as you have to use every finger repeatedly in diatonic scales - with the exception of 5 - you have to use them in chromatic scales too, in order to obtain the velocity you need.

Offline allchopin

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Re: What finger on what key?
Reply #10 on: July 26, 2003, 08:55:23 PM
have you tried this fingering all the way down? what is your speed?
A modern house without a flush toilet... uncanny.

Offline Hmoll2

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Re: What finger on what key?
Reply #11 on: July 26, 2003, 09:07:01 PM
allchopin,

This fingering was not made up by me. It is a standard fingering for decending chromatic scales. What editions have you seen with the fingering that you recommend?
There is not one way to play chromatic scales, but I don't recommend the fingering you posted.

As far as speed, I play chromatic scales - and any other passages  - at the speed required for any piece I am playing - no faster and no slower. Sometimes that means sixteenth notes at 140 beats per measure or faster, and sometimes the tempo is much slower.

(sigh)

Offline allchopin

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Re: What finger on what key?
Reply #12 on: July 27, 2003, 07:18:35 AM
well since i can play the song, and up to speed, i will stand by my fingering. and yes, i have seen this in books before. i would really like to see a piece that shows your fingering, be3causs this may be helpful in the future.
A modern house without a flush toilet... uncanny.

Offline Hmoll

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Re: What finger on what key?
Reply #13 on: July 28, 2003, 05:31:30 PM
allchopin,
I've played a lot of pieces with rapid chromatic scales. Examples of some of them:

Chopin Ballade #4,

Beethoven Op10#3

Beethoven Op13

Beethoven Op 7

I have yet to see an edition of any of these pieces with the fingering you indicate, and I have always used a fingering similar to what I posted.

Why don't you try my fingering and compare it with yours for a) evenness, and 2) facility?
"I am sitting in the smallest room of my house. I have your review before me. In a moment it will be behind me!" -- Max Reger

Offline MrPiano

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Re: What finger on what key?
Reply #14 on: August 13, 2003, 03:31:37 AM
Quote
I'm a newb piano player, and have problems with a part of a piece...

Im suppose to play (going left on the keyboard)

e, d#, d, c#, c, b, a#, a, g#, g, f#, e, f#, e, d#, e


But havent got a clue what finger to play what key...

(excuse my crappy english :/ )


i'm not saying that you shouldn't learn this because you can learn anything you want, but i dont think this piece is generally for newb's.  maybe you should try something a little easier.

Offline pianiststrongbad

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Re: What finger on what key?
Reply #15 on: August 15, 2003, 10:49:41 AM
I have to agree with allchopin on the fingering (i just studied this peice a few months ago).  I also know Hanon and the chromatic scales in hanon use the 3,1 technique.  Liszt's Exercises also use this same method.  I don't think a 3,1 will necessarily slow down or even make it more difficult if you are fluent with your scales.  However, if you are a newb to piano this is a rather difficult peice to learn (the sixteenth notes over triplet eighths is no beginner rhythm to do fluently).  But if you decide to continue working on this dauting and fabulous peice, I wish you the best of luck.

Offline erik-

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Re: What finger on what key?
Reply #16 on: August 16, 2003, 12:19:47 PM
I completely agree with Hmoll2, his fingering for descending the chromatic scale, and the explanation he gave for it. For the last 4 notes, I use a different fingering, but they are not part of the descending scale :

543 2132 1432 1432

Offline jlh

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Re: What finger on what key?
Reply #17 on: August 25, 2003, 09:52:09 AM
I agree, but have a thought about the fingering for the specific passage in this thread.

Using 5 4 3 2 1 3 2 1 4 3 2 1 2 1 3 1 might be better for the last 4-5 notes because the hand doesn't need to move as much as 3 1 2 1 requires.  Then again, I haven't played this piece for a long while, so if the latter works better for you, then by all means use it.
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