Career

[chsmike2345]

I want to major in music, but always is discouraged by my parents and the amazing pianists that have a huge reportoire and fame at such a young age. In addition, I am not comfortable with the fact that I could teach younger students if my performance or composing career doesn't work out. Any help, or suggestions?

[pianiststrongbad]

I am in the same boat you are.  I began piano two years ago and have the dream of some day being on concert stage and realize that this is 0 percent success (since I am now 18).  I have  recently been accepted into a conservatory.  But my parents think I will be getting a degree in starvation.  The only thing that keeps me going right now is the music itself.  Don't let down because you don't think you can make it.  I think you should shoot for this goal if you truly love music and this is your dream.  

[robert_henry]

I get tired of non-musicians knocking the salaries of musicians.  Besides being a cliche, the notion that we don't make any money is simply untrue.  Not only are our hourly rates between $30 and $150 (teaching), but we are doing what we LOVE doing, something that we have been wanting to do our entire childhood...what other job can give a person this pleasure?  Besides, there is more to life than money.  Do what you love.  

Educate your parents.  If they resist, stab them with  shards of broken glass.  Repeat.  

Robert Henry

[dinosaurtales]

Kudos to you, Robert Henry!!!  I am a perfect example to explain to those parents!

I wanted to major in music, but my dad talked me out of it on the *how will you get a job* argument.  As an 18 year old, I had no clue of the world, so all I could think of was getting starving gigs in Holiday Inns.  So I majored in computer science.  he was right.  I had absolutely no problem getting a job, and making good salaries.  I have hated every minute of it.  It's been 25 years in a cubicle, and I figure 3 more and I'll have the piano paid off, then I can quit and get my masters in music!  That's the plan I am working under right now.  We'll see if it works.

[eddie92099]

Robert - I could not agree with you more! Thanks for the Horowitz Carmen Variations by the way - they are great fun and not too difficult,
Ed

[glamfolk]

I agree.  Most of the great composers supplemented their income with teaching.   Even if I don't get onto the concert stage much (most of the time it's not even playing piano) I keep my hand in by teaching and spending time improving my technique and writing (and raising my 5-year old) .  That's the way most of us do it.  

[chsmike2345]

Thanks guys. I LOVE music and knowing there are many that are in the same position as me, I feel much better than I was. Thanks for the support. But, one question of how to be great: it seems all of the truely "great" performers always are in recognition at a young age, while 99.9% of pianists do not have that sort of recognition (me included). Performers like Horowitz, Lang Lang, Kissin, etc. all have had great accolades at a young age. Any comments on this?
Thanks, Michael

[dinosaurtales]

No, but here's a thought (what I should have done, actually) that might keep the parent camp happy, and provide you with some more stability.....

Go ahead and major in music, but pick a school where you can major in music and minor in something more *practical* like computer science, engineering, or accounting  This way you;ll at least have some background in something that'll open up other job opportunities in case nothing is available in music per se.

[NetherMagic]

yeah actually for ppl who do know that music can reap cash (it can be alot or very little depends on how you look at it) like me for example   and probably everyone else here, I'm planning to use the piano as a backup career in case I can't get into my planned career which is physician (yes it's hard).  

The only drawback with teaching music is that if you are planning to teach privately (which many teachers do) without being controlled by any music centres, unless you are very famous, you have to linger around with very few students for maybe the starting few years, and then your student population will pick up.

[BoliverAllmon]

don't be discouraged at all for starting late. I finally found the ultimate late starter story in music. In my school we have a famous person of sort. He came into the school and took music fundamentals course as a required elective for his studies. Well, he loved the course and music so well he decided to change degrees. He went from having to be shown where middle c was on the piano to performing a  master's recital in only 3 YEARS! Now, I don't know what the repertoire consisted of there, but it was good enough for just about any college's master recital. Truly inspirational.

boliverallmon

[la_carrenio2003]

I want to major in music, but always is discouraged by my parents and the amazing pianists that have a huge reportoire and fame at such a young age. In addition, I am not comfortable with the fact that I could teach younger students if my performance or composing career doesn't work out. Any help, or suggestions?

I know what are you talking about. I had THE BIG FIGHT with my father for choosing music as a career.It was a long war -3 years- but I loved music so much that at least he left me do what I wanted. And I NEVER regreted: every day I wake up being a profesional pianist I thank God for doing the right thing, and anyway never had financial problems as a musician.  I do teach in a Conservatoire, I play as an accompanist, I play in a church and did some competitions. I love every job I have which concerns to music. In life you have to take risks:as the russians say: "Who doesn't take risks, won't drink champagne". Are you sure of resigning to your dream because you're not Horowitz or Kissin? I also thought about this at that time. But I decided that the question for me was: can I live out of the music world, whatever the final result will be for me? And the answer was and still is: NO.

[BoliverAllmon]

Even with teaching you are performing all the time. My teacher performs master classes every week at school and performs a major recital about once a year. So, even though she isn't a top concert pianist, she still performs and helps other people perform.  I agree with others, even though it may be a big fight, can you really live without music?

boliver

[chsmike2345]

That's deep... but you don't have asian parents like me! And by the way, what music school did you go to?

[buck]

I'm in Uni.. currently taking a course in Human Resource.  The tutor introduced this concept of "Me" and "I".  

"I" : The uninhibited self that exhibits creativity and what the self wants to do.  (what we all have when we were little children.. remember when we were in pre-school when teacher asked the class if anybody knows how to paint and everyone immediately raise their hands.. but not so when we become young adults being asked simple questions in the Uni.. nobody wants/dares to speak up)

"ME" : What others see that I should be doing.  An imposed role on the self by other people.  


What you want to be can either depend on a large "ME" or a large "I".  If you choose the eariler, you would always live your life for others.  On the other hand, if you want to live life to the fullest, you should hold on to the "I", and unleash your potential.  

Many pple live their lives w/o a passion.  If a music career drives you on, I think you should go with your passion..    

[BoliverAllmon]

I go to Lee College. It is just a junior college, but it has really great faculty.

boliver

[jakester]

Recent joke I heard:

3 guys are dead and are at the pearly gates where St. Peter's deciding whether to let them in or not.

St. Peter: "How much did you make last year?"
1st guy: "$250,000."
St. Peter: "And how much of that did you give to the church?"
1st guy: "$25,000."
St. Peter: "What was your profession?"
1st guy: "I was a lawyer."
St. Peter: "You may pass."

To the second guy, a similar conversation.

St. Peter: "How much did you make last year?"
2nd guy: "$200,000."
St. Peter: "And how much of that did you give to the church?"
2nd guy: "$20,000."
St. Peter: "And what was your profession?"
2nd guy: "I was a doctor."
St. Peter: "You may pass."

To the third guy, a similar conversation, but with a major difference.

St. Peter: "How much did you make last year?"
3rd guy: "$5,000."
St. Peter: "And what instrument did you play?"

---------

All joking aside, the music field is not easy to make a living in, unless you're willing to do what it takes to make money. Most people have aspirations to be a great performer, and that is very rarely achievable. If you're willing to make a living by teaching, and if you're not looking for a great position in some university, then it is quite possible to live off of music. My advice to all musicians - take what you can get, and stop the dreams of grandeur. If you do by any chance have a career in performance, even a minor one, congratulations, you just beat the odds. Otherwise, be glad that you're doing something you enjoy, and share that love for music by teaching.

Jakester

[ahmedito]

You know, the musician starving to death is a big cliche.

I started at 16. I play in orquestra, I give recitals ocasionaly, I have been in some competitions and actually won one, I play in a dance studio, I have several students and I acompany some people. I play at church. I do what I  love, AND Im still studying.
There are plenty of job opportunities out there that dont pay too badly. But you must ask yourself if what you love is music, or the glamour of being an international concert pianist.

By the way, I graduated top of my class from high school and placed third place in the entrance exam for medicine at a prestigious school barely studying... I entered and hated being away from music. I dropped out after 2 weeks. You can imagine my families reaction

[BoliverAllmon]

The money is there. You just have to learn to be flexible. we have people come to school all the time that show us diffferent opportunities there are in the music business, besides being a world-renowned musician. Most of which pay just fine.

boliver

[paris]

i found this very interested topic started a year ago, and it made me think about career. my mother want me to go to high school (this is my 2nd year there), and she think that musicians can't make a good living.(but she supports me 100%)
i think it isn't truth, but why is that so important? so what if i won't have big house, a porche in garage, stuffs like that...
is it better to have this material stuffs and do job which i hate, or be less rich but do what i love and for what i live and dream about?! answer is second one.

what do you think about that? are here some older who can say is it really like that?
a.m.d.

[jr11]

An interesting subject, one I think I can comment on.

25 years ago, I was faced with a decision; do I leave high school to carry on with music studies in university, or train for a more stable career? As I was self-funding my education, I did not have family to fall back on. I chose the lower risk option, graduated, got a lucrative job I kept for 20 years... and then became a victim of corporate downsizing.

Thankfully, the I got a severance package that kept me going for a year to get back on my feet. I went back to studying music, and have taken on students. I pick up gigs (mostly pop), and will play with formal configurations of various bands, but am not above busking outside the liquor store or the park ($100/day quite possible). It's fun, profitable, and I'm happier than I've ever been in my life. However, I also have a wife with a decent salary, and my mortgage (and piano) is paid off. As there is a shortage of music teachers in the area right now, I undercut those teachers with degrees by about $4/hr and have a full teaching schedule. I teach out of my home, and have just about zero overhead.

So I guess my advice is to pursue a lucrative career, but do not let your music go; you may need it some day for profit or pleasure. When I went back to my classical studies after a 20 years hiatus, within 1 month I was back to the level I was at when 18. NEVER sell your piano.

Reality is though, the world only need so many concert pianists and rock stars. Unless you have been told by several prominent people that you are gifted, it is a safe assumption that you will not be one of the chosen ones; a safer investment would be lottery tickets. The life of a travelling musician is not as glamourous as it appears either... certainly hard on families and relationships. I know a number of rock performers who have lived the dream and at thirty years old found themselves broke, lonely and depressed. Classical performers are no different.

'nuff said

[dinosaurtales]

Excellent post, JR11!  I've been keeping up my music, and can't wait tilll the house and piano are paid off - then it's back to music school!!!!!

Fingers crossed it works,

Mindy

[rhapsody in orange]

hi all. i've got parents who think that i should take up double degree for 'security' because they think that music alone would not generate a stable income. any ideas with regards to careers if i graduate with a music degree? besides performing, composing and teaching (conducting is somewhat out for me)? How about things like music business etc? suggestions anyone?
thanks

[xvimbi]

designing, building, repairing instruments
coaching, managing artists
developing music software
recording producer, editor, technician, manager
music psychologist, therapist
orthopedic surgeon specializing in music related injuries
academic career in music (history, harmony, etc.)

[russda_man]

I want to major in music, but always is discouraged by my parents and the amazing pianists that have a huge reportoire and fame at such a young age. In addition, I am not comfortable with the fact that I could teach younger students if my performance or composing career doesn't work out. Any help, or suggestions?

Be better than anyone else. Get off facebook, youtube, and always try to save as much time as possible. Most pianists today are more computer nerds than masters of their art.

[omar_roy]

Recent joke I heard:

3 guys are dead and are at the pearly gates where St. Peter's deciding whether to let them in or not.

St. Peter: "How much did you make last year?"
1st guy: "$250,000."
St. Peter: "And how much of that did you give to the church?"
1st guy: "$25,000."
St. Peter: "What was your profession?"
1st guy: "I was a lawyer."
St. Peter: "You may pass."

To the second guy, a similar conversation.

St. Peter: "How much did you make last year?"
2nd guy: "$200,000."
St. Peter: "And how much of that did you give to the church?"
2nd guy: "$20,000."
St. Peter: "And what was your profession?"
2nd guy: "I was a doctor."
St. Peter: "You may pass."

To the third guy, a similar conversation, but with a major difference.

St. Peter: "How much did you make last year?"
3rd guy: "$5,000."
St. Peter: "And what instrument did you play?"

---------

All joking aside, the music field is not easy to make a living in, unless you're willing to do what it takes to make money. Most people have aspirations to be a great performer, and that is very rarely achievable. If you're willing to make a living by teaching, and if you're not looking for a great position in some university, then it is quite possible to live off of music. My advice to all musicians - take what you can get, and stop the dreams of grandeur. If you do by any chance have a career in performance, even a minor one, congratulations, you just beat the odds. Otherwise, be glad that you're doing something you enjoy, and share that love for music by teaching.

Jakester

This is the most realistic post I have yet to read in this thread.  Take note of it because it is the only one that is truth.

[spockerd]

The biggest thing about a musical career you must ask yourself, is what you are entering the field for.  Is it because you want to become famous?  Is it because you want to earn a lot of money from it?  Sure those things can come from having a musical career, but do you think all of the people who do become very famous from their musical abilities is just because they worked hard?  Well that could be part of it, but for the most part, a musician loves what he does, if you don't love what you do, then its a small chance that it will go well for you.  Its a question  you have to ask yourself.  Most of the benefits from becoming a musician, come after a long time of doing what you love.  It could be a few months, it could be many, many years... but if you are doing what you love to do, and you enjoy every minute of it... then why would you give that up.  For a better paying job?  Anyways... I'm sure I'm not the first to write this but I did not have time to read all of the comments.  I too, am a lover of music.  I write my own piano compositions and in doing so I hope to honor my Heavenly Father.

This is my youtube musician channel.  Currently there are 5 uploads of original compositions.  If anyone so chooses to check it out.  I hope you enjoy.  I don't take any credit for the talent I have been said to have possessed.  God is solely deserving of all the glory.

[avguste]

I want to major in music, but always is discouraged by my parents and the amazing pianists that have a huge reportoire and fame at such a young age. In addition, I am not comfortable with the fact that I could teach younger students if my performance or composing career doesn't work out. Any help, or suggestions?

The question of career is an issue for all musicians. Besides the obvious need of training, and why one wants a career, the issue concerning a concert career is management, getting concerts and making a name.
I cannot speak for everyone, but I can tell you my story of how I am growing my career and how I am getting my name out.

I was trained as a performer with the goal of competitions and concerts. Over the years I did many competitions with more or less success, studied in France and the USA.
Then in 2003-2003, while attending the University of kansas for the Bachelor of Piano performance, I met Professor Rudnitsky from Youngstown State University and he gave a lecture about self management.
This really opened my eyes and ever since I have been doing self management, emailing music directors, universities and other presenters for concerts and master classes.
I really began doing self management in 2007 and since that time I have been getting my name in the world, giving concerts all over the USA.
Obviously I do need to do more and I am working on that, but my small story gives you a small idea of things.

Now, let me list one needs to have besides piano ability to have a chance:

1. confidence. No matter what anyone says you have to trust in your abilities.

2. you need to grow your repertoire(not sure what is your current repertoire) and possibly choose an area of expertise. Personally, my area of expertise is modern music, especially American music. I do obviously perform classical works,especially concerti(rach, schumann, gershwin and such), but for recitals, I perform American living composers

3.website. You need to have a professional looking website where you can list your resume, repertoire and such. The host I recommend is hostbaby.com

[symbolism of l. ron]

I want to major in music, but always is discouraged by my parents and the amazing pianists that have a huge reportoire and fame at such a young age. In addition, I am not comfortable with the fact that I could teach younger students if my performance or composing career doesn't work out. Any help, or suggestions?

You are being discouraged for a reason lad. The fact is that the chance of you getting anywhere professionally with music is almost zero. There are many people in your shoes who want to establish a concert life, but the ones that do start from day one.

Even if you do manage to play a few concerts, it is likely those will be your ONLY concerts. The field is very unstable. Most professional pianists teach to earn partial income and you say that you aren't comfortable with teaching. How are you going to get money friend? What are you going to do when you get sick of practicing? I know that this text is probably not what you want to see, but trust me, a career in piano is NOT A GOOD IDEA. Get a job that will keep you eating and play on a side.

[symbolism of l. ron]

hi all. i've got parents who think that i should take up double degree for 'security' because they think that music alone would not generate a stable income. any ideas with regards to careers if i graduate with a music degree? besides performing, composing and teaching (conducting is somewhat out for me)? How about things like music business etc? suggestions anyone?
thanks

How about stuff that will actually get you some money?

Get a good job, play on the side. What is there not to understand?

[avguste]

How about stuff that will actually get you some money?

Get a good job, play on the side. What is there not to understand?

I disagree with you and I disagree with discouraging him/her
Obviously it depends on the age of the person(and from reading this op, it seems to me he/she is fairly youung), but in my opinion, one of the reasons many give up on a music career is because of people not believing in them.

Whoever is thinking about a career needs to be confident and believe that no matter what they will succeed.
And as written in a previous post, build a repertoire, be proactive and do lots of self promotion.
Then perform, post on youtube, facebook and such

[symbolism of l. ron]

I disagree with you and I disagree with discouraging him/her
Obviously it depends on the age of the person(and from reading this op, it seems to me he/she is fairly youung), but in my opinion, one of the reasons many give up on a music career is because of people not believing in them.

I am not discouraging him/her from playing. I am discouraging him/her from living in poverty and emotional turmoil. Being a concert pianist is HARD. Not just financially hard, but also emotionally and physically hard. Many professional musicians die young and often develop disorders from so much emotional stress. The person in question is young and has still room to develop crucial life skills. Go to school, get a career, earn food and play on the side.

[m19834]

Get a good job, play on the side.

Actually, it's a good advice for anybody who can actually be satisfied by following it, but you could say basically the same thing with any career option !

[avguste]

I am not discouraging him/her from playing. I am discouraging him/her from living in poverty and emotional turmoil. Being a concert pianist is HARD. Not just financially hard, but also emotionally and physically hard. Many professional musicians die young and often develop disorders from so much emotional stress. The person in question is young and has still room to develop crucial life skills. Go to school, get a career, earn food and play on the side.

Failure is a risk in every career. And in the case of a concert career, each of us doing it is aware of the risk.
Yes, you are not discouraging him from playing, however you are discouraging him from a music career, when he obviously is interested in one.
It is all fine and good to list the negatives, but at the same time, one has to list the positive and not discourage. Because at the end of the day, it is his life, it is his decision.
And for one to make a good decision, one needs both sides, not just the negative.

[symbolism of l. ron]

Failure is a risk in every career. And in the case of a concert career, each of us doing it is aware of the risk.
Yes, you are not discouraging him from playing, however you are discouraging him from a music career, when he obviously is interested in one.
It is all fine and good to list the negatives, but at the same time, one has to list the positive and not discourage. Because at the end of the day, it is his life, it is his decision.
And for one to make a good decision, one needs both sides, not just the negative.

You are right about the possibility of risk in a given career. However, the chance of failing a piano job is tremendously high. Sure, he may be interested in the music career now, but he doesn't know what it is to be poor. Sure, there are positives in having music as a career, but it is outweighed by all the negatives many times over. The lad can't really make any wise choices without accepting the fact that being a concert pianist is extremely difficult and quite possibly unnecessary.