Which composer wrote the most superlative Piano Sonatas?

[contrapunctus]

Please do not pick Scrjabin just to make yourself look sophisticated.

Also: Which are the easiest? Hardest?


Would you consider Schuman's greater than Mozart's?

[chopiabin]

Well, it depends on how you define superlative. In terms of? Comparing Scriabin's sonatas and Beethoven's sonatas wouldn't make any sense - they are as different as apples and oranges.

[lostinidlewonder]

Should put another choice - I don't know what superlative means

[ramseytheii]

su·per·la·tive   
adj.

   1. Of the highest order, quality, or degree; surpassing or superior to all others.

                              Beethoven

   2. Excessive or exaggerated.

                               Scriabin

   3. Grammar. Of, relating to, or being the extreme degree of comparison of an adjective or adverb, as in best or brightest.
     
                                Hadyn

Walter Ramsey

[mrchops10]

Okay, I of course can't vote on this, so I'll take you to task instead...what about Prokofiev??!! I think he is usually regarded as the best composer of piano sonatas in the 20th century, at least in the modernist style. Major omission!

[mlsmithz]

I suppose in terms of influence and breadth of emotions and ideas explored, the Beethoven set probably ranks top of my own list (although they have the advantage of numbers over all but the Scarlatti).  That said, the sonatas of Haydn and Schubert are rather neglected compared to the sonatas of Mozart and Beethoven but, as I had the chance to hear while attending a recital by Andras Schiff earlier this evening which included a Haydn sonata (Hob.XVI/34) as well as two Beethoven sonatas (Op.31 No.1 and Op.53), have much to offer, so it was a difficult decision to make.  Prokofiev and Scriabin.... well, it may be a bit early to judge their influence yet.  I like a lot of the Prokofiev sonatas, but, under the definition of "superlative" in this thread, wouldn't give them as my answer.

Of course, there is much to be said for the sonatas of various composers not on this list (presumably because they were less prolific as sonata composers) - Schumann's three sonatas, Chopin's three sonatas, the Liszt B minor, Brahms' three sonatas, the Grieg E minor, Prokofiev's nine sonatas, Rachmaninov's two sonatas, Medtner's fourteen sonatas, Shostakovich's two sonatas, Kabalevsky's three sonatas, etc., etc. - but taken as a set I'd have to give the nod to the 32 sonatas of Beethoven.

[allthumbs]

. - but taken as a set I'd have to give the nod to the 32 sonatas of Beethoven.

Enough said...

[tolkien]

su·per·la·tive   
adj.

   1. Of the highest order, quality, or degree; surpassing or superior to all others.

     

Beethoven and Medtner wrote the best sonatas, as is put here. Beethoven's, of course, need no comment. Medtner's are so brilliantly crafted and marvelous in invention that their present neglect eludes me and many others. They're slowly returning to the concert hall, though, which is most deserving. (Kissin's new CD contains the sonata reminiscenza, which he performs in his concerts nowadays).   Of course, the list is incomplete, as some already pointed out: where's Prokofiev, for instance?

I believe that the "...surpassing or superior to all others" element is not valid here, if we are to have any meaningful discussion about works of art differing widely in style and period. Only blatant differences in quality can be appreciated in this way.

[Waldszenen]

Beethoven - they basically redefined how piano music should sound.

[prometheus]

Hmm, I think I can agree with Beethoven and Medtner writing the best sonata sonatas, if you get what I mean.

I really like the last Scriabin ones too. And I am sure the Schubert's are excellent but I don't know those very well.

Scarlatti's sonatas are nice works, but they aren't sonatas that can be compared to sonatas like we know them today. There is one Haydn sonata I really like, one in Eb major. But I don't like them that much, still better than Mozart though.

[pseudopianist]

Scriabins last sonatas by FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR

[tocca]

Mozart wrote some lovely sonatas, as did Haydn and Scarlatti and...well i could go on a while. But Beethoven wrote a LOT of lovely sonatas. So he gets my vote. Not voting on Beethoven when it comes to sonatas just wouldn't feel right to me. 

[Bouter Boogie]

Scriabin Although I haven't heard all of his sonatas yet

- BB

[JCarey]

Please do not pick Scrjabin just to make yourself look sophisticated.

Seriously, what the hell are you talking about? 

Anyway, my vote would go to Sorabji. His sonatas are amazing. I find Tellef Johnson's interpretation of the 2nd to be a bit too psychotic for my liking, but it's still an incredible piece.

[Etude]

Seriously, what the hell are you talking about? 

Anyway, my vote would go to Sorabji. His sonatas are amazing. I find Tellef Johnson's interpretation of the 2nd to be a bit too psychotic for my liking, but it's still an incredible piece.

Seconded.

I wonder what the third will be like, when the recording is released.  Of the two I've heard (1st and 4th)  I like the 4th best, it's more towards Sorabji's mature style than the first. 

[apion]

Beethoven wrote the Hammerklavier, Pathetique, Appasionata, Waldstein, Tempest, Moonlight, and Op. 111 ........ what more needs to be said?

[contrapunctus]

How about: Which sonatas most exemplify the sonata form?

Which Sonatas stray away from the form the most?

Do you like listening to music that has a structure or form, or do you like listening to midly structured or unstructured music? Why?

And can someone tell me why Gould hated the Mozart sonatas so much. I havent heard them played before, but I have read threw some and they do not seem bad, but i do not think they are as good as some other composers.

[bearzinthehood]

if (user.pickedBeethoven != TRUE)
    user = pothead;

J/K


Ahh, seriously though, Beethoven rules. 

[chopiabin]

if (user.pickedBeethoven != TRUE)
    user = pothead;

J/K


Ahh, seriously though, Beethoven rules. 

Wha...

[pill]

Maybe it's just that I just don't "get" Scriabin's sonatas.. Mozart sonatas seem to pale in comparison to Beethoven's.  For Beethoven there's so many different sonatas to choose from, ranging in difficulty and ranging in moods.

[la_leggierezza]

Beethoven

[superstition2]

Maybe it's just that I just don't "get" Scriabin's sonatas..

The performance is everything.

I've created a list of suggested performances in a new topic.

[pianowelsh]

We are overly blessed with great sonatas. All beethovens/mozarts, could we live without Liszt Bmin? Prokofiev 6&7, Scriabin 4/5, Chopin 2/3 et al  I cant decide!!!!

[phil13]

Scarlatti paved the way. His 555 sonatas range so much in their moods that it's unbelievable. Some of them don't even sound baroque or even classical-era by nature. He was so innovative, and no two sound alike. My vote goes to him.

Phil

[ravel]

prokofiev, and scriabin, i think, for me atleast,  but i was surprised you didnt include chopin sonatas, probably because there arent as many i guess...
but i voted for prokofiev,

[ravel]

and as expected, no one else has voted for him hehe.

[mikey6]

I would have thought Schubert's sonatas would get more of a mention - last 3 escpecially.  The Bb is a structural model for countless pieces and composers afterwards.

[musicsdarkangel]

for me,

Chopin, Rachmaninoff, and even though they wrote few, followed by Beethoven, Liszt, and Scriabin.


I seem to obsess with the composers that have the fewest.

Not only did Gould hate the Mozart sonatas, but Richter as well.... Richter preferred Haydn.

[quantum]

I'd have to say Beethoven.   Then again, we are comparing totally different time periods. 

And what about the Boulez sonatas?

[mikey6]

And what about the Boulez sonatas?

ergh!!!! (personal opinion)

[practicingnow]

The many replies to this question really lets the whole forum know who are the real musicians here, and who are the pseudo-intellectuals, wannabees, and general morons...

Beethoven

[piazzo23]

The many replies to this question really lets the whole forum know who are the real musicians here, and who are the pseudo-intellectuals, wannabees, and general morons...

Beethoven

Probably

[chopiabin]

I mean, I think it's pretty hard to say.

They are all so different and are important and great for different reasons.

Mozart wrote impeccable and concise classical sonatas that often bordered on Romantic. He added a lot to technique and all of his sonatas are beautiful and musically complex. They are amazing!

Beethoven's are obviously amazing. There's really not much more to be said.

Chopin's 2nd and 3rd sonatas are amazing, but I think that only the third can be called a true masterpiece. It is amazingly poetic and perfectly constucted - the perfect realization of an immense vision.

Scriabin took sonata form to a completely new level - they became extremely personal and expressionistic one-movement forms that were intended to help the audience transcend reality. Listen to his fifth sonata (if it's your first time listening to Scriabin, make sure to listen to it intently for a few days and really understand it) - how can you not be amazed?!

[superstition2]

Listen to his fifth sonata (if it's your first time listening to Scriabin, make sure to listen to it intently for a few days and really understand it) - how can you not be amazed?!

It must be stressed that the performance is critical. A lot of pianists have produced mediocre Scriabin, particularly John Ogdon. Ruth Laredo's worst Scriabin sonata is the 5th, probably.

Suggested performances of the 5th (of those I've heard):

1. Horowitz (amazing, although harsh)
2. Taub (completely the opposite of Horowitz, which isn't bad)
3. Hamelin (similar to Horowitz's performance, but sounds clumsy when playing a certain section)

[chopiabin]

I actually really like Ashkenazy's recording. Horowitz's is great but the recording quality is so bad I don't really like to listen to it. Roberto Szidon's is pretty good, but the whole recording (or maybe his style) sounded a bit harsh.

Has anyone listened to Pletnev's recording of Beethoven's Moonlight, Apassionata, and Waldstein sonatas? It is REALLY good. His rhythm is soo perfect, yet flexible and the playing just feels so organic and natural.

Perahia's Mozart sonatas are great, and his Chopin sonatas are the best I've heard.

[kelly_kelly]

They're so different that it's hard to compare, but overall I would say Beethoven.

[arensky]

I had to vote for Beethoven, his are the greatest. But Scriabin's are my favorites!

[hodi]

i also think that schumann wrote some really good piano sonatas
he wrote 4. 3 were published.
the 4th sonata is unfinished and because of that it was never published.
I WANT ITS MANUSCRIPT!!!!!!!!!!

schumann's sonatas are Very Beautiful!!

[arensky]

i also think that schumann wrote some really good piano sonatas
he wrote 4. 3 were published.
the 4th sonata is unfinished and because of that it was never published.
I WANT ITS MANUSCRIPT!!!!!!!!!!

schumann's sonatas are Very Beautiful!!

Yes, they are! My favorite is the f# minor op.11, the f minor (op.14?) I don't care for so much, except for the last movement, which really kicks! And the g minor op.22 is great, probably the best when you look at them objectively. I did not know about this 4 th Sonata! How intriguing...I read the Peter Ostwald biography of Schumann, it was not mentioned in there, but that was more about his life than his music..you should read it if you are really interested in Schumann, which you seem to be...I am doing a half of Schumann on my next recital, playing the Arabesque op.18 and the Symphonic Etudes op.13, maybe some short pieces from the Bunte Blatter op.99 and Albumblatter op.124 before the Arabesque...

[spitz]

Beethoven wrote the Hammerklavier, Pathetique, Appasionata, Waldstein, Tempest, Moonlight, and Op. 111 ........ what more needs to be said?

Nothing more needs to be said...... BEETHOVEN RULES!!!!!