teaching counting

[Bob]

How do you teach students to count for piano?

If it's just one line, that's one thing.  But with different rhythms in different hands.... then what?

I have some ideas, but I'm interested to hear yours.



What counting system do you use?
How do you handle two different rhythms in the hands?
What about rests?
What about notes held for a long time?

[sonatainfsharp]

Walking around the room gets them to feel a steady pulse. Then they can tap on their legs as they walk.

Don't get into the "math" part of it if they are young--they just won't get it, ESPECIALLY divisions under one.

[urbanspice]

How do you teach students to count for piano?

For beginners I usually write in the count for them, making sure to put the numbers in the correct place under the rhythms. For instance, if the measure was half note - quarter - quarter, I would put 1-2 by the half note, 3 by the quarter, and 4 by the quarter. I tell my students they are supposed play when they say the number underneath the rhythm and to hold the note if more than one note is under the rhythm. This is pretty easy and simple concept to pick up. It may take them a few tries or you tapping and pointing at the rhythms, but the "lightbulb" usually shines in a few minutes. I do this until they can count without mistakes, then I have them count with out having numbers written in. If they have problems I right them in, but my goal is to not have to write the numbers in. If there are any new rhythms I of course write in.

If it's just one line, that's one thing.  But with different rhythms in different hands.... then what?
First do hands separately ( clap, tap, or play) then do hands together. No matter what the rhythm the count in each measure is the same. You may have to point out, no this note is not played on the 2 but the & after the two.

What counting system do you use?
Piece with all quarters -- 1-2-3-4 (course this depends on TS)
Piece where the smallest beat is are 8th notse -- 1 & (and) 2 & 3 & 4 &
Piece where the smallest beat is are 16th notes -- 1 a & a 2 a & a
Piece with triplets (simple pieces\rhythm) -- tah-tay-ti or tri-pel-let
For complex rhythms such as:
eigth notes vs. triplets -- hot-cup-of tea -- both hand play on hot => triplet -- hot-cup-tea and eigths -- hot-of
Very complex (And I think my method is a little complex too) = I use math, GCF I think. The short version, I find a number divisable by the rhythms (ex. 16 or 15) then I right in the count... I can't find my Khutcharian so I can't explain it more than that without making my head hurt. (long day teaching music to wonderful and lovely children  ) But of course beginners don't need to no this...

But numbers work very well.

How do you handle two different rhythms in the hands?
I think I said this above, hands separate then together. If the smallest note value is in the left hand, then count for the smallest note valeue. And this goes for any song. Even if there may be one sixteenth or eighth note, then I make them count for the 8th or 16th. It's good practice and when they get to that note it will have the correct tempo.

What about rests?
I usually have the students say rest for quarter, rest rest for half, ect when they first learn about rests or have problems. I also have them count the rests too. In either case, I remind them to lift their hands before they say rest.

What about notes held for a long time?
Then they must beheld for a long time!!!! . For tied rhythms, I always ask how many beats you are supposed to hold it for then practice it, if necessary.

[amanfang]

I typically initially start with note values - 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1 and we count 1's in a steady beat.  Then we do 1-2, 1-2, 1-2, then 1-2-3-4.  It's important to me that rhythm is always in some sort of context.  Simply saying "A quarter note gets one beat" means absolutely nothing outside of a rhythmic context.  And depending on the age/level of the student, I start with marching to a steady beat.  Then we slap our knees.  Once we start looking at the rhythm in a piece, I start by slapping the rhythm on knees RH alone, then LH alone, then together.  Do it with them once or twice, then have them try alone to make sure they have it.  Once they get the general note values, I then use it in context with the meter and bar lines.  And usually I'll do microcounting.
If it is a more advanced student as in getting into intermediate and they are having trouble with rhythm in the piece, I use words rather than numeric counting initially to help them get past the "rhythm hump."  We do "fruit salad counting."  Quarter (or longer) is "pear", eighths are "ap-ple", triplets are "straw-ber-ry" and 16ths are "wat-er-mel-on."  In case of eighth and two sixteenths, we use blue-ber-ry and hold the blue a little longer for the duration of the eighth.  This works great for things like Clementi sonatinas and a lot of Baroque pieces.  So we chant the rhythm to "fruit salad" and then tap the rhythm.  Rhythm is usually one of the first things I go over when starting a new piece.

[Bob]

Thanks for the ideas.  I'm trying to get a better handle on some of my students.


I'm worried about my kids getting stuck "below" the level of counting with the meter "1, 2, 3, 4."  If I go with just saying "quarter, quarter, quarter, quarter" or "1, 1, 1, 1" I'm afraid they will get stuck with that. 

[maryruth]

I've found that when just beginning most students understand how long to hold a note a lot better than where the heck that note is on the lines and spaces--so in the very beginning if I notice they get the idea about note values and I hear them counting to themselves I ALWAYS say, "Wow, you're SUCH a good counter!"  This pretty much guarantees that they will remember to try to count even while they are struggling to read the notes because they are at least good at that!

In the very beginning I don't think you need to worry that they'll get "stuck" counting 1-1-1-1 instead of 1-2-3-4 forever.  Once they get a firmer grasp on note reading the counting will make sense with 1-2-3-4. 

I use the metronome sometimes--particularly with 8th notes, but I set the tick to the eigth note and not the quarter note.  This ingrains the beat with students that don't really have one (like Berhnard mentioned).  Then when you take the ticker away they still have the sense of proportions between the note values--even if they are counting a quarter and two 8th notes 1-2 1 1  instead of 1 2+.  With the older kids I'll ask.."so if I set this metronome so the 8th note gets 1 tick, how many ticks will this quarter note get?"  99% of the time I get the correct answer....Then I'll say something about "new math" because I'm "changing" the values of these notes.  They always like that because they think they're bending the rules.

For music with different rhythms in each hand...I always have them clap the piece out on the fallboard.  Right hand taps right hand notes left hand taps left hand notes.  We do it together.  This helps make sure they are seeing the entire staff as an entity and not separate when it comes to rhythm.  Yes, the hands are doing separate things, and as far as technique goes you may have to work on hands separate, but rhythmically it's a unit and it should be felt together--how does the one hand support what the other is doing, etc...Hands separate practice has never much helped me put something together rhythmically--technically and note-wise, sure.

[jeremyjchilds]

As bernard said in a recent post...understanding the relationship between rythm and beat is very important.

Teaching rythms (in context) can be achieved by writing out a steady stream of appropriate notes, (to serve as beat-signposts) and then accenting the notes that would be representative of the "rythm"

These can be tapped in one hand or two with simple counting (if needed...sometimes it's not)

Teaching students to drum can be especially effective for learning modern styles.

[gaer]

Question to all of you: what do you do when you are in common time (4/4), with 32nd notes? In other words, if a student needs help, what do you write? This, of course, refers to more advanced students.

Gary

[maryruth]

I don't have any Advanced students, but I do this for myself....Usually in pieces with a lot of 32nd notes, it's a slower movement of some sort.  (I used to have trouble reading this, as do a lot of people--all those 16th and 32nd notes can really look intimidating!) I use the metronome and set the tick to the 16th note or the 8th note--depending on which one is most prevalent.  Then I can just count all those notes without having to go beyond the usual 16th counts of 1e+a.  I can comfortably fit 4 notes to beat, but I don't really have or know what to write for 32nd notes.  It's just easier to double all the note values or triple.  I mean, if there aren't any quarter notes in the piece anyways....

[amanfang]

ONE e & a - AND e & a, TWO e & a - AND e & a, etc.

The problem with this is switching back to 16th from 32nds. 

Sometimes I'll also make 1 e & a into two syllables - one for each 32nd.