Thumb playing two keys???

[steve jones]

So Iv been going through the Chopin Preludes, and a certain technique keeps cropping up where the thumb is required to play two keys at the same time.

Iv not come across this before, is there any thing I should be aware of? Any particular movement I should be attempting to apply, or is it simply a case of get it done however feels best?

Thanks!

[xvimbi]

There is really nothing too special to it. Instead of the thumb hitting in the middle of a single key, it's now hitting between two keys. It helps to make contact with the side of the thumb (as opposed to the side-tip) and at an angle to the keyboard.

[chopiabin]

There really isn't much to it. I guess I would try to play with the flat side of the thumb so your other fingers can have more reach.

This is a really good thing to start applying because many, many of Chopin's works, not to mention the works of later composers, use the "two notes to a finger" technique.

[steve jones]

Right, thanks!

Actually, I probably should have mentioned, then examples Iv encountered have been on black and white notes. This, as Im sure you are aware, its alot more tricky!

[classicarts]

I can suggest to sand the black keys down.

[medtnerian]

Right, thanks!

Actually, I probably should have mentioned, then examples Iv encountered have been on black and white notes. This, as Im sure you are aware, its alot more tricky!

I'd avoid playing a black and a white key at the same time with my thumb or with any finger. You'd have to have a very good technique if you don't want to make the overall tone of the chord sound awful because of unequal distribution of pressure, unevenness, etc. Try finding out if it's possible to play it with two different fingers.

[steve jones]

Yeah, I tend to agree. Maybe I miss read this particular chord / fingering.

Here's a one Im finding very difficult:

Prelude No7 - RH - A#, C#, E, A#, C#

The tenth stretch is on black keys making it a little easier, but the first A#, C# with the thumb is nasty. I can get my fingers on this chord, but I cant hit it in the piece yet.

Im beginning to think that Chopin was rather a sadistic bastard!

[dinosaurtales]

I don't know how often it is written into various editions,but having very small hands and a short reach, I use this technique all the time!

[steve jones]

Actually, I hadnt considered that. Sometimes those inner voices can be hard to get, especially when they're close to the thumb.

I think I will be keeping this one in my little back of tricks - safe and sound for a rainy day 

[xvimbi]

Yeah, I tend to agree. Maybe I miss read this particular chord / fingering.

Here's a one Im finding very difficult:

Prelude No7 - RH - A#, C#, E, A#, C#

The tenth stretch is on black keys making it a little easier, but the first A#, C# with the thumb is nasty. I can get my fingers on this chord, but I cant hit it in the piece yet.

Im beginning to think that Chopin was rather a sadistic bastard!

That is a well-known spot. You need to play this with your fingers. If at all, try to hit two black keys with your little finger or fingers 4 and 5 combined, but those are both crutches. If your hands are too small, then you will need to simplify that chord. Either play F#C#E (LH) and C#EA#C# (RH) or roll the whole shabang. To my knowledge, there is no such thing as playing a black and a white key with the thumb (perhaps in Sorabji, though, one never knows).

[steve jones]

Im affraid my hand is to small for that chord to be played with a finger per note. Like I say, I can get the stretch, but I cant put a finger on each of the inner notes. Maybe if I broke a few of my fingers I could 

Actually, the first time I saw that chord, I decided to lose the bottom A# (as you suggest). Its only when I noticed the little [1 that I got curious about the double thumb. I guess I will have an experiment with this, but at the moment it seems like I may need to lose a note. Shame, because I HATE doing this.

PS. Again, you're totally right - playing two notes with the little finger is far more 'managable' than using the thumb. That said, I use the word losely!

[steve jones]

Oh, and yeah, i was mistaken about the black / white key thing. I missed a clef change!