Asperger's Syndrome

[stevie]

i was diagnosed with this, fairly randomly, at the age of 14, now i have long thought about it in my head whether i truly have it, but i know i have quite a few of the symptoms, to a degree...but i still dislike people saying i have it, for some reason.

so anyway, it may be more common amongst musicians and artists, because of the social stuff....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger's_syndrome

theres a link so you can read all about it.

and if youre interested you can ask me random questions about my experience and stuff...k

[stevie]

'if you dont mind me asking what "symptoms" did you experience growing up?
how does it make you feel that you "may" have this "syndrome"?'

gilad sent me a random PM, and i am randomly quoting it.

ok so..

i always knew i was a little different, in short...
in first school i was creative, had quite a few friends, people liked me, randomly.
but in middle school i was put in a class with none of my friends from 1st school, i experienced social difficulties, i latched onto this other kid who i vaguely knew and annoyed him, perhaps...

so anyway, i left school at age 13, and saw a psychiatrist, and got diagnosed with it..

i thought nothing of it, then later i read about it on the net and realised some things, and it affected me alot, obviously i was in tears, inner pain, all that.

so i felt a bit crap, and i read all about how people with it were very unsuccesful with relationships...and that made me feel a bit crap too.

i havent yet had a facetoface relationship with a girl, but i have had a few close female friends over the internet, and 2 that were serious enough to be considered 'girlfriends'.
in these relationships the difficulties inherent in having this syndrome cropped up, and made things awkward....me being very intense, insecure, and constantly asking things, because i have little natural intuition about what other people feel....maybe id fare better in a 'real' relationship, but ive never had the courage to try..

i never talk about it for sympathy, and the last thing i want is for anyone to feel sorry for me, or to treat me differently, this is another problem...the reason ive told people about it is simply because i want to discuss it and im curious whether they think i ahev it...etc.

sorry if this post is randomly garbled...im tired.

[gilad]

peoples temperments vary and thank heavens for that. scientist and doctors like to define and categorise phenomenon, and behaviour is not quite as easy to do that with as chemistry for example. it's very easy to misdiagnose someone regarding psychological welfare.we can't all be average and ordinary, but that doesn't mean that everyone else that isnt is suffering from a syndrome or disorder.
The Doc may have been wrong, i wouldn't let it define you, label you!
I think that what you are describing about yourself is well within the range of what is normal, and that you shouldn't pay to much attention to what the doc told you. acknowledge that certain things are difficult for you, such as meeting a girlfriend face2face and work with what you've got. everyone has an area in life in which they they experience a hard time adjusting, but with perseverance i believe almost anything is possible.

G

[prometheus]

I may have it. I might even have been diagnosed with it. At least, they should have looked into it. They did tests when I was eight because I didn't like other children and stuff, well actually some kids bullied me and then they think something is wrong with me (yeah thats how it works). So I started to ignore them all.

My parents claim they forgot the results. I never bothered to find out if anything is in my medical record, I think it should be in there, whatever they concluded. I guess I probably don't have it. I remember not being too impressed with their little tests. The only thing they apperently found out is that I was quite above average intelligence.

DSM IV doesn't look at causes. It looks at behavior patterns. If you act like someone with, lets say, Aspergers, then you have it just like every other Asperger person. Even if you are litterally acting while those other people have a subtle neurological thing causing the behavior classified as Aspergers.

I also think Aspergers isn't defined as a disorder because it is generally not considered to be that disruptive. But tell that to someone who has it. But on the other side, surely things like schizophrenia, borderline,    Anorexia nervosa, real autism or even down syndrome(which is also called a syndrome) are much more disrupting, of course depending on the severeness. Also, homosexuality was once part of the mental diseases in the DSM.

To me romantic relations are unnatural, they are not me. I feel that I both understand the subtilities too well but on the other side I feel like I don't understand them at all. It is like I know I don't know things that actually everyone doesn't understand but me being one of the few realising this and making an issue out of it. I found out that the moment I forgot about all the romantic 'crap' I am much more able to have healthy and deep platonic relationships with woman that the average man. Because of the platonic nature relations with females are just as natural as relations with males.

But the chronic collisions of the sctuctures of my mind with the structures of the human society are really pressing down on me. My main problem has been my failure to be succesful in the education system. My intelligence has really been, well maybe you could call it, in hibernation. I never was lazy or terribly unfocusses but still I performed very poorly. When I was about 17 things got better. Maybe I had some kind of childhood depression. But then I had to learn everything by myself. People expect you to be succesful because they notice you are very intelligent. That is one of the hard things for me.

BTW, what has The Doctah got to do with this?

[stevie]

The Doc may have been wrong, i wouldn't let it define you, label you!
I think that what you are describing about yourself is well within the range of what is normal, and that you shouldn't pay to much attention to what the doc told you. acknowledge that certain things are difficult for you, such as meeting a girlfriend face2face and work with what you've got. everyone has an area in life in which they they experience a hard time adjusting, but with perseverance i believe almost anything is possible.

G

thanks for your encouragment, and i dont let it define or label me.

a major thing i dislike about this 'label', is that it covers quite a wide spectrum of severities, it is VERY spectral, and some people have it to such a minimal degree that they get along in life practically normally, and some have it so severely that it is only JSUT below what can be considered autism...after all thats what it is, a milder form of autism.

so the danger is that people may think everyone with the syndrome is similar, when they are just as varied as neurotypicals ('normal' people).

and the doctor only did her best, she didnt have any agenda, the purpose of the sessions i had was to find whats best for me and to make me lead a happy life.

i havent seen the doctor for years and years, and at that stage i wasnt even told personally that i had it!
they told my parents, and it wasnt even mentioned to me by the doctors...
and they gave me no idea how to cope with it, or any advice on how i could try to adapt myself to lead a 'normal' and happy life.

but i dont want to go back to see them anyway, i am trying to have confidence in who i am and hope that people will actually like me, which i am always very paradiod about(really its hard to know).

hmm, mildly.

[pabst]

dear god, yet another useless label derived from the vain scientifism medicine and psychology have gotten into these past decades. I find it great that you won't let any doctor command you in your way of thinking about yourself, kudos stevie.

[stevie]

dear god, yet another useless label derived from the vain scientifism medicine and psychology have gotten into these past decades. I find it great that you won't let any doctor command you in your way of thinking about yourself, kudos stevie.

well i wouldnt say its entirely useless, if i wasnt diagnosed with it my life would be quite different, in fact very different, and i dont think better...

[pabst]

i just think "diseases" such as this are too general and gratuitous, even if they may appear perfectly convenient in a clinical sense. I'm not a big fan of post-freudian psychology, neither I'm on the anti-oedipus side, I simply don't like seeing there is so much effort put into categorizing people, it's too big a manifestation of the monomaniac side of the human sciences, in general.
Or maybe I should drop the Foucault and come back to reality, bc i really can't say if it would be better not knowing it, and you're probably right, since it's you we're talking about.

[BoliverAllmon]

if there was ever a doubt. it is over now.

stevie=comme

[Jacey1973]

Hey do you get MUSO magazine (classical music magazine aimed at young musicians - it's really good)? Because i picked up the latest issue [Oct/Nov 05] (we get it free in our Uni department) - it has the flautist Emmanuel Pahud (he's gorgeous btw!) on the front cover - and there it's weird you posted about Asperger's syndrome because there is an article about it in there.

The article is really interesting (you might want to read it - as it talks about the connections between musicians and Aspergers). Apparently Glenn Gould had Aspergers syndrome, as did Erik Satie, Beethoven and possibly Mozart...it's worth a look (there are some good articles this issue about instrumental teaching and Music colleges vs music university departments too amongst other things):

https://www.muso-online.com/uk/index.php

[prometheus]

Labeling historical persons as people with Apsergers syndrome is pointless. There is no way to know. This is always pure speculation. People that are unusual and very intelligent don't have to have Aspergers.

[silvaone]

one of my friends brothers has asperges (spelling ) and is a genius with music.... he can teach himself freestyling to grade 8 with any instrument over night! and he works for Sony now...... he can play anything by associating with how it works compared to other instruments..... pretty cool

- Silva

[stevie]

asparagus, procvociatvely.

[hodi]

sometimes reading too much about mental disorders can really make u feel like u have them and feel really bad.
so why read about mental disorders?

[stevie]

sometimes reading too much about mental disorders can really make u feel like u have them and feel really bad.
so why read about mental disorders?

because i was diagnosed with it by a qualified professional, perhaps

but hodi, when fred green grapes orange frog

[musik_man]

So if Mozart and Beethoven had it, why should it be called a disorder?

Honestly, I think this is junk science.(this refering to a large part of psychology)  Based of the wiki article, I probably "have" Aspergers, but I like to call it by its more traditional name, dorkiness.  Really, interest in things like dinosaurs(I had this one quite strongly when little), computers(wonder what percentage of the male pop. is obsessed with computers), and model trains is just a sign of a nerd.  As are the other characteristics: not seeing subtexts of conversations, not being comfortable making eye-contact, being awkward in one's physical movements, talking pedantically.  I think psychologists won't stop until any personality is labeled as some sort of disorder.

[stevie]

you make a very good point.

but after reading more about it, it is meant to be a very spectral 'disorder', the severities are different in every individual, and some have it to such a minimal degree that they hardly feel any different to 'normal people'.

scientists and psychologists have worked for years, passionately, about trying to understand the human mind, and helping people live better and happier lives....yes money is involved too, but there wasnt any advantage for anyone in diagnosing me...

i am actually classed as a sort of disabled person, and i get financial support, no luxuries, but enough to live off.

dont get me wrong though, i dont intend to always live this way....

[rimv2]

peoples temperments vary and thank heavens for that. scientist and doctors like to define and categorise phenomenon, and behaviour is not quite as easy to do that with as chemistry for example. it's very easy to misdiagnose someone regarding psychological welfare.we can't all be average and ordinary, but that doesn't mean that everyone else that isnt is suffering from a syndrome or disorder.
The Doc may have been wrong, i wouldn't let it define you, label you!
I think that what you are describing about yourself is well within the range of what is normal, and that you shouldn't pay to much attention to what the doc told you. acknowledge that certain things are difficult for you, such as meeting a girlfriend face2face and work with what you've got. everyone has an area in life in which they they experience a hard time adjusting, but with perseverance i believe almost anything is possible.

G

Haahaha true

According to random sources found on the internet that seem to perfect describe mah habits, ahm a cancer laden, depressed, closet homosexual, high-functioning autistic ox with an iq in the range of 107-163. Ahm dominated by emotions although ah excellent at logically task which causes confusion between the hemisphere's of mah brain resulting in extreme cluster migraines and light seizures. Ah am a rare sort of person with a soiled golden aura, which explains why babies constantly stare at me but neither laugh nor cry. Were ah to die, ah would be placed in the first circle of hell.

 And if all this is hard to swallow I also need to protect my computer from spyware and viruses, though, ironically, ah already have Norton and Ad-aware installed

[mound]

You may have it. You may not.. I think in general, these days, the medical community is far too quick to "diagnose" what really amounts to eccentric behavior. so many "quick fixes" in the form of little colored pills.

[rc]

Haha, Seems I've got it too! Every time I read about thisorthat-syndrome, I realize I have a new medical condition to add to me resume.

They may be well meaning in giving every possible trait a name, there ARE people out there who's condition seriously disrupts their lives. But why call it aspergers when you could just say ("a lesser form of") autism? Aspergers makes it sound like limbs are falling off.

The pharmaceutical industry is not always so well-meaning. I'm seeing pill ads pop up all over TV/the net/magazines trying to sell a cure for imaginary problems. Like Mound said, quick-fix pills.

Vaguely related; as a kid the dentist told me my jaw was too long. He wanted me to go through surgery to break some pieces out of my jaw so I could look more normal. ... No dice, it was no problem for me and I don't see how he thought it was abnormal. I have the same jaw as my grandpa, weird coincidence! guess it's what nature intended.

I was also a shy kid, socially 'behind', like maybe 50% of the population is... Going around thinking of myself as this shy person, so I always acted shy. Maybe it was my latent autism . Eventually I got tired of it, read whatever I could find on being social, put myself in social situations, learned some skills I lacked and got a grip on it. It wasn't always easy, a lot of the time I had to consciously overpower my habitual 'shy' responses, but it was necessary and my life is better for it.

So I figure that if you're socially akward, instead of dwelling on some medical term you should turn your laser-focused mind on learning to be more social. You get along fine in here, I see no reason you couldn't eventually get a handle on face-to-face interactions. There are all kinds of useful information on the net, self-help books. All kinds of things to stew in your head, that are more useful than a medical label.

Piano related sidenote: Claudio Arrau was extremely socially stunted. He worked hard at it and learned social skills. He was still a bit of a weirdo introvert, but he found a wife, had kids and led a happy life.

[stevie]

well, i dont take pills ....i did when they tried to get me back to school(for anxiety), but not anymore.

and the way i am actually does disrupt my life, whatever relationships i have had with females, have consumed me, and became an obsession, and when i feel bad about anything at all in the relationship, i obsess about it and i gert permanent stomach pains, they wont go away unless i am extremely distracted..

and, i havent seen the psychiatrist for about 4 years, i couldnt go back to the same one anyway, because that was for children, and im an adult now...randomly, even though i dont feel like one...i didnt really have an adolescence(not normal anyway, it was in isolation....self imposed, possibly).

[mound]

whatever relationships i have had with females, have consumed me, and became an obsession, and when i feel bad about anything at all in the relationship, i obsess about it and i gert permanent stomach pains, they wont go away unless i am extremely distracted..

Sounds perfectly normal for a 14yr old boy.

[leahcim]

Sounds perfectly normal for a 14yr old boy.

Yeah, but I think you can get Pink Floyd records on the NHS now....

[prometheus]

Firstly, psychology isn't science. The fact that they started to use scientific method doesn't mean its science. They don't get anywhere as for today. They cannot create models that hold under observations. Therefore it isn't a science.

Secondly, you cannot self diagnose. The fact that you thing you have some disorder is totally meaningless.

Thirdly, these disorders make it troublesome, or even impossible, to function normally in society. The fact that you can relate to the symptoms is meaningless. Frankly, everyone can relate to almost all symptoms of every mental illness and disorder.

Fourthly, there are no medicine subscribed to people with Aspergers. So the theory that they diagnome too much people with Aspergers so that they can make money off the medicine must be faulty. This is the case with depression and ADHD, btw.

Fifthly, adding a label has both advantages and disadvantages. Surely some people have mental disorders that prevent them from being independent. In that case society needs to add a label to them.

Sixthly, Asperger's Syndrome is a much more positive term than autims. A large amount of people with autism are retarded, or close to being retarded and have IQs below 70 or 80. Today, people with high functioning forms of autism and with normal intelligence are labelled PDD-NOS or something similar. People with Aspergers are generally viewed upon as very intelligent and eccentric people. The problems that they encounter in simple every day life aren't well understood by normal people. For some reason Stevie couldn't even face or take the pressure of being in school. Can you understand that? Why would a perfectly normal intelligent happy , though a bit strange, person not be able to go to school? Frankly, Aspergers can seem like a gift, rather than a disorder, to normal people. In some sense it is, actually.

Seventhly, mental disorders do exist. Brains can disfunction, there can be very subtle problems. But, it would be impossible to classify all these things based on their causes. Not only would it be impossible to find the causes, it would also be impractical because the list of disorders would be endless. So the only way to label people is based on symptoms.

Someone said one can be able to just learn the social limitations. This is just not true. If you can then you don't have Aspergers. They lack the natural ability. They can learn to hide and avoid problems assosiated with this and they can live perfectly normal lives but you can't except them to do something their brain apperently can't because it is weired up in a different way. And self-help books? Ooh my... Haha... Talk about psuedo-science and the like.


If you think Aspergers, or any form of autism has something to do with dorkiness, nerds or dinosaurs, you are way off...

[BoliverAllmon]

I thought autism meant you had a real high IQ, but was emotionally not there.

[prometheus]

As an adult with autism don't imagine a nerd, but a very child-like grown-up with the autism symptoms. Depending on the person you will probably instantly realise there is something 'wrong', or maybe something 'funny' or 'strange', with this person. But when the person starts to talk about his or her fields of interest you realise this person is actually quite smart, or better, can be quite smart. Most of them do not even realise they fail to understand the constructions we call human society.


Note, this is real autism, not some high functioning disorder from the autism spectrum.

BTW, what has IQ to do with emotions?

[leahcim]

If you think Aspergers, or any form of autism has something to do with dorkiness, nerds or dinosaurs, you are way off...

Nah, in this thread / forum it's musicians and artists IIRC - you'll probably need to read lkml or similar to find the computer geeks and nerds hoping they have it, for the attractive idea that it shows them as highly intelligent Although wikipedia's claim that the myers-briggs [or whatever it is] type most associated with it of INTP / INTJ probably helps their case

Computer geeks and nerds would probably like the idea that their lack of girlfriends / celibacy or stomach pains from being in love are down to it too

[BoliverAllmon]

BTW, what has IQ to do with emotions?

nothing really. I just heard that autistic people have extremely high IQs, but can't comprehend the idea of love, hate, or anything like that.

Mercury Rising is what I tend to think of with autism.

[rc]

well, i dont take pills ....i did when they tried to get me back to school(for anxiety), but not anymore.

and the way i am actually does disrupt my life, whatever relationships i have had with females, have consumed me, and became an obsession, and when i feel bad about anything at all in the relationship, i obsess about it and i gert permanent stomach pains, they wont go away unless i am extremely distracted..

and, i havent seen the psychiatrist for about 4 years, i couldnt go back to the same one anyway, because that was for children, and im an adult now...randomly, even though i dont feel like one...i didnt really have an adolescence(not normal anyway, it was in isolation....self imposed, possibly).

I agree with Mound again here, this doesn't sound so unusual to me. I can relate, it wasn't so bad with me, but I know what you're talking about. The friends I've talked to about it have similar experiences, one in particular described almost the exact thing you just said (obsession, sometimes over imagined problems, stomach pains). Same guy also had an isolated adolescence, was the outcast, had a few friends who he treasured greatly but never really got too close to anyone and was very alone... Long story short, he got a handle on his problems and is now a normal socially-adaptable fellow (still has his moments, but can keep in control). At some point he decided solitude is no way to live, and got to work figuring out how to overcome his 'disability'. It's probably something that will never entirely go away, but doesn't interfere with buddys life anymore.

Again, you aren't the first guy to have girl-troubles like this. It seems common enough by my experience. A thought on it: if a guy has never really been close to a girl, when one comes along the guy tends to make a big deal of it (especially with all the 'machoness' of peers). The imagination runs wild, guy begins to see her as the first and last girl he will ever meet so everything seems incredibly important. Guy overreacts to everything, real and imagined, acts nervous and creates all kinds of problems. Relationship becomes tense strained thing and disintegrates.

This was basically my story, and the story of what friends I've talked to about it. Possibly yours? You don't know that you have aspergers. You story sounds familiar enough to me, and the way you are in the rest of the forum leads me to believe you don't have any kind of brain-disfunction. Whatever the cause, if it's a serious problem in your life, it's time to find a way to fix it.

Btw, I didn't think you were poppin' pills... was just ranting on a tangent .

[southpaw]

I have a family member with Asperger's Syndrome, so I have had to learn a lot about it.

There is much more to AS than just social difficulties.  It is a developmental disorder affecting sensory integration.

There is a very good AS discussion board at:

https://www.xmission.com/~winter/ubb/ultimatebb.php

That board has both adults with AS and parents of children with AS.  They are very friendly and gave me a lot of good information.

I can also recommend three books:

Asperger's Syndrome by Tony Attwood
Asperger Syndrome in the Family by Liane Holliday Willey
The OASIS Guide to Asperger Syndrome by Bashe and Kirby.

[opus10no2]

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,19556.0.html

Interrel8ed.

I have strange feelings about people with AS, I'd feel like a faker among them.

[timothy42b]

well i wouldnt say its entirely useless, if i wasnt diagnosed with it my life would be quite different, in fact very different, and i dont think better...

If our relative had not been diagnosed with Asperger's, we would probably have thought he was just misbehaving, and punished him.

And because it was beyond his control, it would not have improved, and he would have become more and more frustrated.  That would have been terribly unfair to him.

Instead we've learned where his limits are, and better ways to cope with some of the behavior. 

[opus10no2]

So for a person with AS would it be best to sacrifice pride and inform people of their handicap?

What's the difference between just being bad at something and having a disorder?

Should they be understood, or just forced to live like everyone else and not given any special treatment?

[opus10no2]

One of quite a few things about AS on youtube, theres lots of 'vidblog' style vids there too by aspies.

[soliloquy]

theres a link so you can read all about it.

Are you being sarcastic??

[opus10no2]

I'm not entirely sure if he was, but it was 2 years ago, give him a break, he doesn't exist anymore 

[soliloquy]

I'm not entirely sure if he was, but it was 2 years ago, give him a break, he doesn't exist anymore 

Are you angry at me?!?

[opus10no2]

That would be a no.

[G.W.K]

When I was between the ages of 5 and 9, the school brought in a psychologist to test me for Asperger's Syndrome because I have always appeared to talk and act like I'm older. I still do, but slightly less now.

Turns out I never had Asperger's Syndrome, so they tried to test for other Behaviour problems...still never found anything. Odd thing is: I'm considering a career as a psychologist even though I hate them! (No offence to any psychologists that might view this).

G.W.K

[opus10no2]

Alot of people who read about it think they have it.

Oddly, when I read about it, it makes me less sure I have it, and if I do, it has to be on the lower end of the spectrum.

[G.W.K]

I don't think I have it. Its everyone else who thought I had it!

 

G.W.K

[pies]

a

[G.W.K]

No it isn't.

G.W.K

[pies]

Yes, it is.

[steve jones]

i was diagnosed with this, fairly randomly, at the age of 14, now i have long thought about it in my head whether i truly have it, but i know i have quite a few of the symptoms, to a degree...but i still dislike people saying i have it, for some reason.

so anyway, it may be more common amongst musicians and artists, because of the social stuff....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger's_syndrome

theres a link so you can read all about it.

and if youre interested you can ask me random questions about my experience and stuff...k

Someone very close to me has this condition. Well, we are pretty certain that they have... but its not the kind of thing they will talk about openly.

Symptoms in their case:

- Very poor at reading AND using body language, often getting the wrong idea about jokes, becoming offended, etc.

- Irrational and often fiery mood swings

- Naturally good at mathematical and systematic type problems (no doubt with a high IQ)

- Has an incredibly difficult time dealing with people outside of immediate family.

Stevie, with respects to yourself, its incredibly difficult to pass comment. I knew this person my whole life, and while sometimes I thought there was something not quite right with them, I never knew it was an actual condition. From what Iv read of your posts on this forum, you dont appear to be a typical aspergers sufferer, but who can say? I mean, you seem to have a good sense of humour, ability to give and take a joke, etc. Would I be correct in saying that this kind of social interaction is something that often challenges aspergers sufferers greatly?

Probably the best thing to do would be to compile some research and go challenge the diagnosis, or perhaps consult a different doctor / shrink to see if they agree with the original diagnosis.

SJ

PS. Lol, the nerd's ADD 

[opus10no2]

I feel I know stevie enough to speak on his behalf..

He saw a doctor, but in retrospect, maybe his parents saw the doctor too, and what they said may have affected the diagnosis.

The initial session was the most remarkable, he went there not knowing much, and he ended up, somehow, pouring out all of his sorrows and worries, things he had never told anyone, the words and tears flowed, and the primary gist was:

I don't have any real friends, nobody likes me, nobody could or should ever like me, and noone has.

In the ensuing year, he became paranoid about his own parents not loving him, and tested their love and attention, with 2 notably extreme events.

1 - vandalising a building, smashing a window, and when the police car came, smashing the windscreen with a metal pipe. He was arrested, and was very distressed and worried about the future. But that didn't matter so much then, because he could see no positive future anyway.

2 - holding a knife to his 3 or 4 year old little sister's throat in front of his parents.

To this day, what he did still shocks and disturbing him, more than it could disturb others.
He was medicated at the time, so that may have played a part, but still, something terrifying in him came out.

He is not normal.

[steve jones]

But as they say... the only 'norma'l people are the ones you dont know!

SJ

[opus10no2]

Indeed.

That post was pretty heavy, most of the time I prefer to be light hearted.

[prometheus]

Why would you tell that kind of private information about someone else on a public internet page?

[debussy symbolism]

Why would you tell that kind of private information about someone else on a public internet page?

Greetings

Maybe because that someone else is the person that made the post.