do you have the problem of becoming better than your teacher?

[sportsmonster]

my friend complained to me that he could play songs better than his pianoteacher.

what a wierd situation to get in. can you imagine?...haha....beeing better than your pianoteacher.  then you cant learn ofcorse.

is a lot of people in a situation like that?

(or reversed: student better than you as a teacher)

[leahcim]

my friend complained to me that he could play songs better than his pianoteacher.

what a wierd situation to get in. can you imagine?...haha....beeing better than your pianoteacher.  then you cant learn ofcorse.

I've never heard my piano teacher play - although I've only had one lesson so far.

But, as a wise man once suggested most lean and mean sports people are faster / can jump higher / swim faster or whatever than their chubby coaches - it doesn't stop them learning a lot from the coach about how to jump even higher etc, does it?

It's how good they are as at teaching that matters. At some point you may outgrow a teacher, but it's not necessarily because you can play pieces [dunno what happened there ] better.

[sportsmonster]

i understand...smart points.....but is there still a situation where you cant learn anyting more from your teacher?

and there is probably teachers that is not good at teaching too.
i think this was my point

[Bob]

Of course.


Although I suppose a student could work on a piece for a long time and the teacher could just be glancing at the piece.  The student could play better with a lot of effort and sound better than a teacher who is just looking at a piece for the first time.  It's funny in situations like that when the student has an attitude and then the teacher gets ticked, puts a little effort into it, and "squashes" the student.  Battle of the egos.

[timothy42b]

Would you like to take golf lessons from Tiger Woods?

Or would you rather take lessons from the guy who TAUGHT Tiger Woods?

Hmmmh? 

[gaer]

i understand...smart points.....but is there still a situation where you cant learn anyting more from your teacher?

and there is probably teachers that is not good at teaching too.
i think this was my point

I was badly hurt by TWO teachers who claimed to know a great deal about the piano but who could not play my music in a convincing way, if at all, and their technical advice was crippling. How this happened is a long, painful story, but when I finally got a teacher who could play very well and was fine at explaining how to do things, it was like a miracle.

I have always learned more from watching and figuring out what people do than by listening to them talk about it, and you get a lot of BS theories that just don't work from people who look at the piano from a purely theoretical standpoint.

But I want to make another point: one of the people who was most helpful to me was neither a great teacher nor a great virtuoso, but he knew music and he always pointed me in the right direction. "Listen to this person play, do you hear the difference?"

Or: "Have you ever thought of making people think you play louder by learning to play much softer?"

Or: "Listen to these two people play. The first is playing faster and louder. Why is the second more exciting to listen to?"

So this is a REALLY complicated subject, because in life you never know who is going to teach you the next great lesson or who is going to tell you something that will hurt you if you listen to it.

Gary

[rc]

That would be a pretty good problem to have .

hmmmm... I've hardly heard my teacher play either, but Bob makes a good point - I can spend 2 hours/day on the piece while my teacher has dozens of other students and couldn't possibly learn the piece as I am, so in the lesson I no doubt have it under the fingers better. But that's irrelevant, we don't meet to see how well he can play, we meet to see how well I can play.

In guitar I had a teacher who said he had nothing more to teach me. I have a lot of respect for that, because I wouldn't have known it, but he knew that it would be better for me to become independant and that the lessons were no longer necessary.

[rc]

So this is a REALLY complicated subject, because in life you never know who is going to teach you the next great lesson or who is going to tell you something that will hurt you if you listen to it.

Gary

I used to act on quite a bit of bad advice, and have known a fair share of bullshitters, I like to think that I've developed a pretty good sense of when somebody knows what they're talking about or if they only think they know what they're talking about. Some people will speak very confidently about things they know little about, and they're usually the ones who can really work their words and be hard to argue with.

I can tell with myself when I know something or am just voicing an opinion (like now ).

One thing that makes me doubt what somebody says is when they say it like they have something to prove, as if they're trying to persuade you, making a sale. If somebody knows what they're talking about, they don't have to sell it to you, because it's good information and can stand on its own.

I tend to have a little skepticism for everything I hear anyways, I like to check things out. Try it to see if it works, and compare it to other information sources. Of every source I come across, there's usually one point of view that makes more sense/leaves less room for doubt, that's the good one.

...Just some thoughts, this is kind of complicated.

[Bob]

Part is a matter of matching the student with the teacher. 

For my own teachers, after awhile I had heard most of their ideas about practicing.  It became an issue of new material.  So in a sense I had "used up" the teacher.  I already knew what they were going to say about my playing and about the piece I was working on.  I still got better just form sticking with them and from working on things myself -- I kept working, I got better.  Who knows how much was the teacher exactly.

If my teacher knew the piece, then I got a lot of details.  If they were unfamiliar with it, then we figured things out together.  Of course, they had much more background and were able to give more insight that way.

Although my teachers were able to read through my pieces fairly well if they didn't know them.  (Scary)  So even if they didn't understand everything about the piece, they were able to give some good advice to lead me on further anyway.

If that helps.  The teacher might be able to do it, but I would think they can give some good advice on how to progress.  I would think a teacher would be able to read down a student's piece or "master" it very quickly.  I could understand a teacher focusing their attention on one hand and the student's comprehension so much that they mess up the left hand -- something like that.

I remember once thinking I sounded better than my teacher or equal during a lesson.  Quite funny now.  I didn't have the ears and of course the teacher was only putting in an ounce of effort while I was maxed out.  Amusing to think about now.

[sonatainfsharp]

There is nothing better than a seasoned teacher, even if they can't play a note.

In Minneapolis, there was a teaching legend (for violin) named Mary West. She was 96 when I was last there and couldn't left a bow, but she was the best violin teacher in the midwest in a very long time.

That being said, my first piano teacher couldn't play anything. My first piano lesson was the Pathetique sonata since I could already read notes. It took me a year just to learn the notes on the first three pages then I gave up and took [composition] lessons from someone else, instead. I didn't have my first REAL piano teacher until college. What a wake-up call that was.

[zheer]

I like this subject, i dont think its wrong to be better than your teacher actually am sure its very common, however there is something wrong with being better than your teacher even though you are no good. I think my first piano teacher was not a great pianist so i soon reached her level, however she head a lot of knowledge, a masters degree, thats something i dont have, as mentioned earlier , playing the piano well does not mean you can teach it well.

[sportsmonster]

interesting.......and what happens if your teacher are tone deaf. and cant hear the difference between the tones. or has a really bad ear for the piano
(not shure what it is called)....but that cant be good for your lessons.....and the teacher cant hear the difference if you play something wrong?

can this cause problems?

[bearzinthehood]

interesting.......and what happens if your teacher are tone deaf. and cant hear the difference between the tones. or has a really bad ear for the piano
(not shure what it is called)....but that cant be good for your lessons.....and the teacher cant hear the difference if you play something wrong?

can this cause problems?

Um...yes.

[sportsmonster]

not?........ok

[zheer]

I think the best piano teacher is one who is not great pianisticly, therefore had to work hard at understanding methods of piano playing, thus he or she can understand and solve common problems efficiently, i can imagin Franz Lizt being puzzled as to why playing the Chopin Etudes are a problem. Richters piano teacher was a great teacher because he was not a genius and was facinated with unlocking the mystery genius.

[crazy for ivan moravec]

 

[tompilk]

I don't have this problem... hehehe - anybody want to own up to this like me? 

[invictus]

Skillfully, its probably not true because she is trying to teach you, and unlike you, she only played it like 3 times, unlike your 3 weeks, which explains the less better playing then you
Besides, the te4acher has to stay at your level, not to higher level until you can proceed

And most importantly, the experience

[aya_heller]

I will never ever ever have this problem.  My teacher is completely amazing. u.u He'll better than me until he dies.  If I die after him, then I will be better for awhile!! XD

[pianistimo]

i'd never be better than the teacher i had at west chester, even if i had three lifetimes.  there is an element of genius and talent that some of these people have and when you watch them play, you just think 'wow.'  you don't have time to analyze every single thing at once.  you just take one or two things and try to emulate them.  the biggest thing i've realized is that great pianists and for that matter cyclists, tennnis players have a great deal of mental focus, endurance, and great ability to relax.  the subconcious seems to take over more with these people because they know how to 'let go.'  for the average person, to let go and play incredibly 'in the moment' often causes one to lose their place or for the technique not to be up to the level of sounds in the mind that one is trying to match.

[ted]

The question is probably too simply stated. I had the opposite problem, but I needed to regard it in retrospect in order to understand it. My teacher had such amazing brute force musical abilities that I had a feeling of inferiority for years. Looking back, I realise that even among musicians these abilities were very exceptional, and yet he did not use them to create very much. I have probably enjoyed myself much more and created many more things with the little raw talent I have than he did with his colossal gifts.

It is very difficult to assess yourself relative to your teacher, especially when you are young. I don't think it pays to set out to "beat" a teacher, but the trap I fell into, of selling myself short, is to be avoided too.

[whynot]

All excellent points, Ted. 

I will never get to my teacher's level.  NEVER.  But he never makes me feel inferior, either.  He seems to genuinely appreciate what I bring to my playing, and he is very encouraging.