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Topic: Frustration is back, I need help (technique, mastery, musicality!) Please read  (Read 4424 times)

Offline mosis

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I haven't been here in a while (don't know why), but I'm sure some of you will know who I am anyway. No that I'm anyone special, but I'm not completely new here.

Anyway, to the point at hand: I am up to my neck with failures and frustration. I am working on the mastery of a few pieces. Now, I've played these pieces quite well before. In fact, this spring I competed and won first place nearly every time. The thing is, exam time is coming up, and the same problems that have kept me from winning 100% of the time are still with me, and quite frankly, my teacher is being useless.

Now, I am familiar with pretty much all the concepts Bernhard talks about. The problem is, I don't understand why they're not working as well as they should. I practice and practice and practice hours upon hours upon hours and nothing gets done. I'll start with the G minor etude-tableau, Rachmaninoff of course, with a specific question.

There is one big right hand only run at the end of the fast climax on the third page, and I have been playing this thing for DAYS. I've broken it down, used parallel sets, used repeated note groups, different rhythms, every friggin' thing in the book, but I still cannot nail it every time. I'm relaxed, aware, know what I'm doing, but I just can't get that "mastery" there. The biggest problem is with the hand displacement. That's my biggest problem everywhere. I simply cannot displace my hand as quickly and as accurately as I would like. No amount of practice can change this! I don't know what to do anymore! I can't play a fast scale, fast arpeggio, fast octaves, chords, jumps, fast anything! I mean, I don't ALWAYS mess this run in the etude up, but hell, I know that the one time I'm performing it and I absolutely cannot mess up, I will. I really need some advice with this part.

The run after that is two handed, and I'm having a lot of trouble displacing the left hand; much more difficulty than the right, although that makes sense.

The other problem I have with this etude is consistent throughout all my pieces (Chopin's 9/1 nocturne, Beethoven's Pathetique SECOND movement, Scriabin's 2/1 etude, Rachmaninoff Prelude in C# minor). I can't play quietly, evenly, and have a nice singing tone, whether it be a single line in one hand, or the top note of chords, or anything. It's not completely devoid, but it is far from where it should be, and I just don't know how to practice this. I've been trying the gravity drops and everything, but that even, soft, singing tone is just beyond me. Even sixths, fifths, and thirds (in a fugue I'm playing) also face me as impossible.

My final problem (I think) lies in the THIRD movement of the Pathetique. There's always those freakin' four note broken chords in the left hand and I just can't get them even with the left hand at the proper speed. Right and left hand notes aren't sounding together, the left hand is BLARING way too loud, I'm having troube playing quick, staccato notes and two-note slurs in the right hand, and the piece is just posing me difficulty generally.

On a practice related note, I can break up my pieces into separate bars of technical problems, but bringing them together and making more general divisions is difficult. I'm kind of learning every single bar separately and then trying to put them together. I don't know when to put the overlap and when to join hands and when to join bars and it's just taking me apart.

The only thing my teacher ever says is, "I know, don't worry about it" and "Play Hanon."

Please, help me. I've asked as specific as I can get. I've searched, read everything on the forum, and I know what I know but these problems aren't going away. I'm not even worried about my exam in January. I just want to finally master these pieces. I've been playing them for a year and they're still not mastered.

Any and all help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks in advance

Offline bearzinthehood

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Something my teacher said was, don't think of moving around on the keybaord like a game of basketball where it's like "he shoots, he scores" or "he shoots, he misses".  Instead imagine what it feels like to be where you want to be and your hands will find the way.

*shrug*

I guess it could help.

Offline rimv2

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Play the difficult sections together in time to figure out how they should go together, then slow it down from there. Play them together at slower and faster than normal speeds.
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Offline stringoverstrung

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moses,

i will try to answer your post in several posts to keep it digestable.

Post 1 is maybe the most difficult one for you. Please read on and try to imagine/feel what i mean. Be patient and reread it.

POST 1: Practice Attitude.

In your post i read:
Quote
Frustration is back
Quote
kept me from winning 100% of the time
Quote
I am up to my neck with failures and frustration.
Quote
those freakin' four note broken chords
Quote
I don't know what to do anymore!

 I also feel this drive in you: you really want to be able to play it well. This is a good thing! BUT: you must canalize your energy differently. Think about what Bernhard says (no quote B please correct me if i'm wrong):
the key to success is a good plan and execute  this plan rigourously (=daily) (albeit you may need to make adjustments to adapt to your real progress vs. the planned progress).
Now Bernhard gives examples about how to create your plan. So you can do that. Make your own plan. (have you made one? Show me) This is the easy part. Think about it for a minute: executing the plan and stick to it is more difficult. What is necessary for that?

- Perseverance
- your plan must be realistic (= good judgment of your own abilities)
- Love for the music/piece (Bernhard)
- Discipline (Bernhard says: don't play on after your practice section 7/20 and so on)
- be honest to yourself (did you really play without a mistake after 7 repeats? No: it's too long!)
- ...

Now what does this mean?

To be able to persevere you need:
- will power (you have it)
- love for music (you have it)
- a real belief that you will succeed: so think: "EVENTUALLY I WILL SUCCEED".
- this is not about
Quote
winning
Quote
frustration


in other words:
RELAX mentally. You will do it! don't doubt it. It will come. Very soon.

now you might think:
"i know that!" or "this will not solve my technical problem!"

OK! That tought is exactly what i mean: it's OK, it shows you have drive etc but to look from a mentally higher point of view will be more productive to play the piano well.

Change your mental architecture towards the piano.

If you don't understand what i mean please say so i'll try to explain it differently. I suggest you try it and you will see the benefits of this next week already! Listen and read interviews from great pianists: they have this special mental ability, relaxness, quality of personality (i'm not saying yours is not ok i'm saying it can always be better).

When you practice don't rush it. THINK!  ;)

Offline stringoverstrung

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POST 2: practical advice for your problems 1

moses,

first of all a warning: i can only give advice that has worked for me. I am by no means an expert like Bernhard, Xvimbi et al. So try it at your own "risk".  ;D

for the Rachmaninov g minor:  split it up and play the run with two alternating hands. Be aware that it is dangerous to change fingering let alone "handing" if you've learned it already. But it's easier when using both hands.


About singing tone: my teacher always says that in order to produce a singing tone you must imagine pulling the key out of the piano. Of course your playing apparatus must stay supple and you must adjust the speed of the "pulling" finger to get the right volume. Pay attention to the feeling: supple / no harsh tone. Of course a singing tone has a lot to do with the (lower) volume of the accompaniment.

It's also in your mind: you must imagine beforehand what type of sound you want to hear without bothering about how to do it (Chopin/ Neuhaus school). Try it. It's amazing. How to accomplish it? read post 1: mental "coolness" / mental overview is key. :D

Offline stringoverstrung

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POST 3: Hand displacement:

Now this is probably the part which will take the longest time to improve. You probably also have some bad habits ingrained already.

be aware of the following:
- do you follow the right motion pattern (= not to flat and not to "archy").
- is your arm relaxed?
- do you have problems with blocking of antagonist muscles?
- can you jump 1octave and 2 octave with same finger (LH only) slowly and with your eyes shut? No? do the exercise from Fink: start on middle D with both hands and then in contrary motion  hit D G# D G# and so on till the end of the keyboard and back with flat 3rd finger. Please read Fink for proper execution (relax etc). Also try with eyes shut.

- watch a live concert from for example: Boris Berezovsky or Volodos or Libetta. Buy a seat in the front 4 rows. Watch their elbows: their arm moves in a way that the hand glides parallel over the keyboard. Alternative: DVD. I don't say Libetta has the holy technique but he can teach you the fundamentals of economic motion. (DVD from La roque d'Anthéron). To a certain extent it seems that these pianists put a lot of effort to minimize the change in angle between the wrist and the lower arm: they even move their elbow and entire body to the side just to keep the angle between fingers and wrist/lower arm constant (when staying on white keys of course). This improves speed and accuracy. Of course it must never become awkward (remember the golden rule: "it must sound right, it must look right and it must feel right!")

 ;D Warning: if you don't know what you're looking for then it's no use watching a video or performance of a professional pianist to learn something. ;D Therefore it's better to study which motions you need first. The book from Seymour Fink can help you with that.  ;)



Offline stringoverstrung

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Post 4: soft

Mosis,

 first of all apologies for misspelling your name twice!

Now don't worry if you loose some control when playing soft: it IS VERY difficult. Some suggest to lean a little forward to give you more control but i'm not sure this is a good idea in general. This will normally work in Rachmaninoff prelude C# (soft chords). Watch a video from opening chord in Beethoven concerto nr 4 played by a professional: that's the way to play a soft chord.
 ;D Warning: if you don't know what you're looking for then it's no use watching a video of a professional pianist to learn something.  ;D

You could try the following with page one of prelude C# minor:
play the bass notes. Then instead of playing the first soft chords just play the first soft chord and repeat this chord only. Now you can pay attention to the following:
- is everything supple from wrist to shoulder to toe (=everything)
- try to measure your movement to a reference force (gravity says Chang) you can also try to reference it to the best execution you made playing this chord. Your arms feel like they are "hanging" in the air.
- the fingertips are the boss!
- feel the key: pay attention to what you feel (vibrations?)
- now try to make the movement smaller
- play the chord while all fingers involved are touching the right keys. One fluent soft movement. Did you feel the resistance of the key (on a grand) at the same time?
- do you play the chord REALLY TOGETHER? if not adjust. Do not continue before the chord is really together and i mean REALLY. if it's not working out don't tense up and relax the hand for a second.
- make sure that all notes sound: if not: don't accept it!
- experiment with flattening the fingers a little / changing hand position while paying attention to the feeling.
- does it look right / sound right/feel right?
now stop for let's say 30 seconds and try to think/imagine how the bass notes + first chord should sound like. Don't think about how to execute it just think about how it should sound (eg as if you're a little bit depressed)... Now play the beginning only first soft chord included. And? did it sound better?


now same procedure for the second chord. Then try to switch between chords. Notice and be aware of the change in hand/arm  position, maybe even a very slight change in the position of the shoulder girdle.

Now next day: first thing to do when you are sitting in front of the piano: Don't touch a note and try to imagine how it felt yesterday. Imagine playing the first soft chord of the prelude. PLAY IT!

Disaster? not together? not all notes sound? Way to loud? Very likely. Why? Your reference is a day and a night's sleep away! Don't give up and repeat the procedure: play bass notes (they are the reference in volume and feeling for your first really soft chord). Should be better now. If not warm up by playing something you already know.


give me some feedback on what is working out and what isn't over the next couple of days  :P

Offline mosis

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Stringoverstrung,

I have read your posts and find your final post about the Rachmaninoff especially interesting. I will try it out as soon as possible.

By the way, I do have the book from Fink and I am working through it now. I only started recently, though. I'm on the second primary movement. :p Although I don't know if my posture is EXACTLY as he wants it to be.

Anyway, thanks for the advice (and for spelling my right on the third try ;))

I'll get back to you when I can.

Offline nomis

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Another thing about pianissimo playing - your piano. It could be that your piano isn't responsive enough to your touch. Now, I'm no piano technician, but I've found that piano with heavier keys are less responsive because of the extra force required to get the note to sound. The same also applies with light keys too - because the action is much lighter, the resulting sound will be louder because of the little amount of force to generate a sound.
For more information about this topic, click search below!
 

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