International Chopin Competition - final result

[cucudas]

1st price -  Rafał Blechacz - Polska

2nd price -   none

3rd price -  Lim Dong Min, (korea)
                   Lim Dong Hyuk(Korea)

4th price - Sekimoto, (Japan)
                  Yamamoto (japan)

5.none

6th price -  Ka Ling Colleen Lee - (China-Hong Kong)


best performance of a polonaise - Rafał Blechacz - Polska
best performance of mazurkas - Rafał Blechacz - Polska
best performance of a concerto - Rafał Blechacz - Polska

[stevie]

BS

[cucudas]

BS

that's what i thought

[Motrax]

 

[leahcim]

He won the scrabble too.

Hardly surprising when every word scores about 300 points

[cherub_rocker1979]

Here's the video of Rafal Blechacz's Sonata no. 3 4th movement:

https://s53.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1Z423R0IH6X063BPE658KWOTYJ



Here's the video of Ingolf Wunder's Sonata no. 3 4th movement:

https://s63.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=18LKB5RW6XMDZ1YB1BMU7WKSON

[gaer]

Here's the video of Rafal Blechacz's Sonata no. 3 4th movement:

https://s53.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1Z423R0IH6X063BPE658KWOTYJ

I could spend 10 lifetimes and not play this that well live, under pressure. If that's the point.

But I felt nothing as I listened. Nothing new, nothing unique. It seemed somehow "safe".

Am I being unfair?

Gary

[pita bread]

No you're not being unfair but "safe" wins.

[orlandopiano]

I could spend 10 lifetimes and not play this that well live, under pressure. If that's the point.

But I felt nothing as I listened. Nothing new, nothing unique. It seemed somehow "safe".

Am I being unfair?

Gary
Gary

It's the Chopin 3rd Sonata, how new and unique do you want it?

Personally I like his playing. Controlled and steady, yes. But still very musical to my ears.

With that said, I didn't hear any of the others. Congrats to Rafał, whoever you are.

[gaer]

No you're not being unfair but "safe" wins.

In fact, I had a very pleasant conversation a few years back with a runner-up in one contest, who went on to be the winner of another. In the first competition, I thought he was by far the best, and he told me he won later by cutting out everything that he cared about in order to please the competition judges.

Gary

[gaer]

It's the Chopin 3rd Sonata, how new and unique do you want it?

Personally I like his playing. Controlled and steady, yes. But still very musical to my ears.

With that said, I didn't hear any of the others. Congrats to Rafał, whoever you are.

I can't prove it, of course, but I truly believe that if you had been there and heard all the other players, you probably would have been disappointed by the outcome. I say that because I believe one or more players would have done things that would have touched some part of you that the others didn't, and you probably would put much less premium on accuracy than on interpretation, individuality, etc. This is not to say that it can't go too far. Sometimes you can hear great ideas, or you think you do, but their are so many wrong notes, it's hard to be sure.

I also have to say that I only heard this one movement, and some of the other things this guy played may have been incredible. I truly do not know. So I really do not want to be over critical or unfair to an individual, which is why I said what I did.

But I still think piano competitions stamp out individuality in most cases. Now and then people win who are so gifted, they make it to the top IN SPITE of the competitions. In other words, they have to play the game. They have to win these things in order to get heard, but they never do their best playing until later, when they are allowed to express themselves without the hellish competitive environment.

Gary

[orlandopiano]

I can't prove it, of course, but I truly believe that if you had been there and heard all the other players, you probably would have been disappointed by the outcome. I say that because I believe one or more players would have done things that would have touched some part of you that the others didn't, and you probably would put much less premium on accuracy than on interpretation, individuality, etc. This is not to say that it can't go too far. Sometimes you can hear great ideas, or you think you do, but their are so many wrong notes, it's hard to be sure.

I also have to say that I only heard this one movement, and some of the other things this guy played may have been incredible. I truly do not know. So I really do not want to be over critical or unfair to an individual, which is why I said what I did.

But I still think piano competitions stamp out individuality in most cases. Now and then people win who are so gifted, they make it to the top IN SPITE of the competitions. In other words, they have to play the game. They have to win these things in order to get heard, but they never do their best playing until later, when they are allowed to express themselves without the hellish competitive environment.

Gary

Honestly I don't know much about the competition circuit. I am sure there others on this board  (Thrac?) who know of the differences between the major competitions, what the judges focus on more, etc. But my guess is maybe the CHOPIN competition committee is more concened with faithfullness to the score than other competitions.  Obviously any competition wants an individual artist with an original voice, but maybe taking an interpretation too far or too personal isn't the wisest way to go in this particular competition.

So while a "new and unique" performance of this piece might win the Van Cliburn for example, it might not be what these judges are seeking. 

[bon_bear]

Why are there no 2nd and 5th place? I don't get how they rate stuff sometimes...how do they judge the competitors wen each and every performer has their own style  AND! every judge has their own style of expressing the music. Therefore, i think it really depends on how they like their music. Does this ring a bell to all of ya? Feedbacks are welcome
Elizabear  

[rc]

I have no firsthand experience with competitions, but the impression I get is that competitions are pointless as well as ridiculous. As far removed from what I consider the point of music as you can get. Maybe even obsolete.

It makes no sense to me either why there's no 2nd or 5th place, what the hell kind of system if this?

...in short, it's all meaningless.

(just an opinion)

[smatsuura]

Just talking to myself....

The results are what I had been scared of...I mean, I had thought there would be a time like this - even Chopin Competition Prizes are occupied by Asian pianists.

Is this because Asian piano learners practice a lot more than western learners???

To become a pianist, one must practice really hard...Asian people's cultural background helps for this, I think.

What would become of the future piano world --- I myself, as a piano lover from Japan, want Western pianists to show authenticy of Western music --- am I too prejudiced or conservative?? 1st prize went to this Polish pianist --- hmmmmmm...

[wooooo]

Here's the video of Rafal Blechacz's Sonata no. 3 4th movement:

https://s53.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1Z423R0IH6X063BPE658KWOTYJ



Here's the video of Ingolf Wunder's Sonata no. 3 4th movement:

https://s63.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=18LKB5RW6XMDZ1YB1BMU7WKSON

WOooooo! What kind of competition is that? Ingolf Wunder is so much more mature and so much better musically and technically. Rafal Blechacz's rubato is too dragging and hence not natural enough. Is Chopin competition in warsaw still a prestigious piano competition after 2005?

[bearzinthehood]

Well mad props to Ingolf Wunder because he played a great 4th movement, but I think Rafal Blechacz deserves some credit, his was better to my ears.  Not that my opinion matters or is even informed, but I guess it's a matter of personal taste anyways.

[zheer]

Just talking to myself....

The results are what I had been scared of...I mean, I had thought there would be a time like this - even Chopin Competition Prizes are occupied by Asian pianists.

Is this because Asian piano learners practice a lot more than western learners???

That is intresting  you mention that, when you say asian do you mean chines, well i think its because that they have a very large population and secondly they have a number of outstanding teachers, hence the reason why we see so many chines pianist, for example am Kurdish and occurding to a number of people am the only pianist from that country, good news for me but bad news as far as standards gos, i have no one to compete with.

[wooooo]

WOooooo! What kind of competition is that? Ingolf Wunder is so much more mature and so much better musically and technically. Rafal Blechacz's rubato is too dragging and hence not natural enough. Is Chopin competition in warsaw still a prestigious piano competition after 2005?

Actually, I like neither of them. Ingolf Wunder was rushing a little sometimes as if he was trying to achieve a world record in speed. He had therefore  sounded slightly hasty and less expressive sometimes whereas Rafal Blechacz had to slow down a little unnecessarily somewhere in the middle as if he had a slight problem technically. Furthermore, he had dragged some notes too long for my liking.

[turner]

Here's the video of Rafal Blechacz's Sonata no. 3 4th movement:

https://s53.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1Z423R0IH6X063BPE658KWOTYJ


Here's the video of Ingolf Wunder's Sonata no. 3 4th movement:

https://s63.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=18LKB5RW6XMDZ1YB1BMU7WKSON

cherub_rocker: Thank you for the links! (Although what I downloaded appeared to be audio only--no video.) Why did no one applaud after Wunder's performance?

I personally prefer Wunder's rendition. It's ironic that even if the jury were to select a "safe" choice with flawless technique and presentation, Blechacz really doesn't fit the bill, as his rendition wasn't flawless anyway.

The issue regarding the tempo chosen by Wunder points to one of the interpretive decisions of this movement. The main theme of the Rondo appears 3 times, each time with a different accompaniment: triplet both hands, then 3-against-4, then against six 16th notes, which is very difficult if your left hand is under-developed. I have heard so many pianists who begins the Rondo well enough or a bit on the fast side, then have to slow down by the 3rd entrance of the main theme. The thing about Wunder's rendition is that yes, he is a bit on the fast side, but his left hand is strong enough to carry him to the end. Blechazc definitely played it safe.

Also, can someone post links, if any, of Dong -Hyek Lim's performance? Thanks!

[cherub_rocker1979]

cherub_rocker: Thank you for the links! (Although what I downloaded appeared to be audio only--no video.) Why did no one applaud after Wunder's performance?

I personally prefer Wunder's rendition. It's ironic that even if the jury were to select a "safe" choice with flawless technique and presentation, Blechacz really doesn't fit the bill, as his rendition wasn't flawless anyway.

The issue regarding the tempo chosen by Wunder points to one of the interpretive decisions of this movement. The main theme of the Rondo appears 3 times, each time with a different accompaniment: triplet both hands, then 3-against-4, then against six 16th notes, which is very difficult if your left hand is under-developed. I have heard so many pianists who begins the Rondo well enough or a bit on the fast side, then have to slow down by the 3rd entrance of the main theme. The thing about Wunder's rendition is that yes, he is a bit on the fast side, but his left hand is strong enough to carry him to the end. Blechazc definitely played it safe.

Also, can someone post links, if any, of Dong -Hyek Lim's performance? Thanks!

The videos should work fine with Real Player.  Blechacz chose to play the sonata at the end of his program.  Wunder chose to play it at the beginning of his program.  The audience is not supposed to applaud until the pianist plays the last work on his or her program.

[zheer]

Hay is this Wunder guy you are talking about the Austrian dood, if so he was one of the best.

[cherub_rocker1979]

Hay is this Wunder guy you are talking about the Austrian dood, if so he was one of the best.

Yes, this is the "Wunder guy" everybody's been talking about.

[cucudas]

i was watching everything except the 3rd stage
from the 2nd to the final stage i watched every players
this list is what i have thought aoub the prizes

1st Dong Hyuk Lim
2nd Dong Min Lim
3rd Rafal
4th Yamamoto
and so on

i don't understand how Rafal got all the special prizes too
i saw his polonaise which had so many miss keys
more than 5 i heared
also his concerto had many wrong keys that appeared clear to my ears
Dong Hyuk Lim played the best concerto even though there was some weird thing happened in between the 1st and 2nd mvt.
who puts piano tuning tools inside of the piano while the most biggest piano competition???
and how come the tuner sees the tool right after he opens the hood?? how come he's face doesn't change at all?? doesn't he at least be panic??

this competition is just rigged

it was just a Poland's party that some asians were involved as supporters for Rafal

[wooooo]

this competition is just rigged

it was just a Poland's party that some asians were involved as supporters for Rafal

Very well said. Agree with you all the way.

[chromatickler]

RAFAL's sonata 4th mvmt was one of his weakest performances of the competition, while it happened to be one of WUNDER's best. it's unfair to compare them with a single piece like this. RAFAL's scherzo#4 in round1 was better (than WUNDER's) while his valzez were in a classs of its own. RAFAL's concerto performance was also quite evidently the best of the 12 finalists.

That said, the polonaise prize is BS for sure. Both japanese male finalists SEKIMOTO and YAMAMOTO and of course WUNDER deserved this prize more than RAFAL.

[maul]

Rafal's pinky frightens me.

[chromatickler]

It's ironic that even if the jury were to select a "safe" choice with flawless technique and presentation, Blechacz really doesn't fit the bill, as his rendition wasn't flawless anyway.

no one really knows what the judges are looking for. Wen-Yu Shen, a contestant who played with the most disturbing level of accuracy i have ever witnessed was eliminated after round 1.

[cherub_rocker1979]

Here is the 3rd movement

Rafal Blechacz:

https://s52.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1RUE6VRGV3QKL3BXJ615C5E8RF



Ingolf Wunder:

https://s57.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0DHC7A4B99V6W2VQMQURA9BTY6

[lukeskywalker]

Hello "cherub_rocker1979" ... I hope I don´t seem to rude or impolite for asking, I´m new here and just registered, but I´ve been downloading all the files you have posted, and have really been anjoying listening to Ingolf Wunders fantastic playing. Unfortunately, I had to work in the evenings for the past four weeks, and was not able to follow the competition very much. If you (or anyone else in here) happen to have more of these recordings (or other great stuff from competition), I wold be extremely happy if you would post it here. Im sure others would love it to.

Thank you very much

[bon_bear]

(sorry...how do you do tat seperate quoting thing?)
"I have no firsthand experience with competitions, but the impression I get is that competitions are pointless as well as ridiculous."


Yeps. I kind of agree with that...i mean...my PT says she makes me participate cuz:
1. She could prepare myself for the exam...
2. To see how the adjudicators comment on my playing...but? As I mention b4...this really depends on how that person likes their music. Isn't it?!

"It makes no sense to me either why there's no 2nd or 5th place, what the hell kind of system if this?"

LOL... Totally agree..Why IS there no 2nd and 5th place?! Anybody?!

"...in short, it's all meaningless."

Yeps, you grasps the concept.


Elizabear

[classicarts]

Why do they leave 2nd and 5th place out? anyone??

[Dazzer]

quite quite simple i'm surprised noone's said it.

Chopin Competition -> In WARSAW
Warsaw -> In Poland
Rafal -> Polska = Polish.

there.

[BoliverAllmon]

I wonder what the percentage of polish finalists there have been through the years and how many russian finalists there have been.

my guess is high on the polish side, but low on the russian side.

[acha114]

Does anyone know what works Rafał Blechacz performed in each stage of the competition?

[rimv2]

I wonder what the percentage of polish finalists there have been through the years and how many russian finalists there have been.

my guess is high on the polish side, but low on the russian side.

Da winner was Polish, Ironically the best player at the competition was not.

Therefore, you are probably right

[wooooo]

Da winner was Polish, Ironically the best player at the competition was not.

Therefore, you are probably right

What do you mean by that? You mean Rafał Blechacz is not the best player at the competition? You mean there is a consipiracy? Care to elaborate?

[thracozaag]

 MT's losing 1st round performance is now available on www.whitekeys.com


koji

[lukeskywalker]

Does anyone have a link for the first movement of Blechacz sonata? 

[jhon]

Just talking to myself....

The results are what I had been scared of...I mean, I had thought there would be a time like this - even Chopin Competition Prizes are occupied by Asian pianists.

Is this because Asian piano learners practice a lot more than western learners???

To become a pianist, one must practice really hard...Asian people's cultural background helps for this, I think.

What would become of the future piano world --- I myself, as a piano lover from Japan, want Western pianists to show authenticy of Western music --- am I too prejudiced or conservative?? 1st prize went to this Polish pianist --- hmmmmmm...

What you said is very true - Asian pianists practice a lot.  For instance, CECILE LICAD (also from Philippines but now resides in US) typically wakes up at 5AM to do the laundry and other domestic stuffs so that by 10AM, she would sit herself in piano until sunset at about 6PM.  And she is not a "lunch" person so she doesn't even bother to eat at 12NN.  Her breaks are mere coffee breaks - up to 10 cups a day!  Somewhat abnormal but this a typical Asian work ethic - things you'll never (or seldom) hear from a Russian, European or Americans.

Anyway, back to the topic, do you guys know who are the members of the jury?  Is Argerich a jury again? 

[jhon]

quite quite simple i'm surprised noone's said it.

Chopin Competition -> In WARSAW
Warsaw -> In Poland
Rafal -> Polska = Polish.

there.

And add to that...

Chopin --> Polish

LOL

[leahcim]

And add to that...

Chopin --> Polish

Didn't Chopin lose in the same comp though?

First Polish guy to win for 30 years or something?

Although the names look suspicious in previous years - Yundi Liski, not awarded motyka,  Dang thai sonofaski, Maurizio "mamma miaski remember me  from justa round the cornerski?" Pollini,  and so on.

[rimv2]

MT's losing 1st round performance is now available on www.whitekeys.com


koji

That 10-1 is both sick and insanely clear

[odsum25]

Granted, I think that Wunder was the best pianist there and that there was some major politicking going on amongst the judges, but let's be honest about a couple things.

1) Wunder is young and still has much to learn. Everyone knows that, but some people are acting like he is the finest pianist on earth. His interpretations have a ways to go yet. He has a fabulous technical mechanism and a passion which is not found in so many young pianist and he certainly could become a great, but at this point he still rushes things and needs to think more about the music. I don't expect him to have mastered his art at such a young age and from what I've seen he realizes this, which is good. I think we will have to follow his career closely and see what happens, because the potential and passion are there.

2) He has gotten so much publicity in the piano world from this competition that it hardly matters that he didn't gain the perks of a finalist or the winner. Yes the recital opportunities and concerto opportunities are important, but I think that when he finally makes his appearance we will see a much more mature artist then we would if he suddenly had all these opportunities. The publicity and attention he has gained through this will get him recitals anyway and there will be other competitions to gain more exposure through.

3) Everyone knows that most of the competitions out there are crooked in some way or another and that the best pianist does not always win. In fact, I would be willing to bet that the majority of the time they don't. Politics have always been a part of the music world and always will be, especially with the competition scene so central to forming a career in today's world. Does that make this ok? No, but it's not something that is easily changed. The results of the Cliburn are often just as mystefying, although without the nationality bias. I hate the competition scene and everything it produces, but the fact is, it is how one needs to make a career today. Creating a big career without competition exposure is innumerably more difficult. It can be done, but requires a lot of luck as well.

Anyway, I guess I've said my piece, whatever that may be. Don't be too hard on me.

[stevie]

im curious, i know why he struck a special chord with me, but why have so many people been passionate about him?

why is he getting all the publicity?

[Dazzer]

truth be told... i'm listening to the 10/1, and i don't feel its a very good interpretion musically. of course, i have my own ideas. and i can't play as well as meiting, but its just my 2 cents. he is a very great pianist regardless.

[lukeskywalker]

im curious, i know why he struck a special chord with me, but why have so many people been passionate about him?

why is he getting all the publicity?

Because he is personal, original, and dares to play like he wants to (?) ... Isn´t this what we all hope for somehow? Someone who dares speak the truth ; that music is not about "right" or "wrong" or "correct" or "brilliant" ... but about something else ... the appreciation of beauty, of life, ... the simple "daring to just be oneself" - instead of the endless row of people trying to "be like we imagine we are excpected to be"