What does being able to play piano mean?

[pianolearner]

I am at about Grade 2 level and it takes me about 30 hrs to learn a new piece at that level and I can only play one piece entirely from memory. So if someone asks me if I can play the piano, should my answer be “Yes” or “No, but I’m learning”?

Any thoughts/opinions on what “being able to play piano” means? 

[fuel925]

You constantly learn throughout your life and your piano playing career. Even the best virtuoso pianists are still learning and discovering new things. Therefore, yes you can play piano.

My definition of being able to play piano is someone who can play music, and actually understand what they are playing, not just copying off a CD.

[gilad]

i'm in a similar position to you PL, been learning for 6 months, dont know anythng about grades though.. i tell people i'm learning how to play the piano, in a  year or so when i've improved somewhat and i know i will, i'll probably still tell people i'm learning piano come to think of it.i think of myself as learning to play the piano, otherwise i'd see myself as a bad piano player:)so for now leaning suites me, but it's personal, just a matter of perspective and outlook, no right and wrong.

[m1469]

hmmmm... I will start by saying that I find this to be a very interesting question.  Upon thinking about it, I remembered a time when I was working on a specific couple of pieces and I used to think "when I can play these pieces, I will know I can really play the piano".  Well, that never happened as such.  I mean, I played the pieces, but, it certainly did not open some gateway for me to feel like I went from not being able to play, to suddenly being able to play.

I think sometimes I still live in that trap, actually.  "When I can do this, then I will be able to play".... type thing.  But, we never arrive at those places, I am finding.  Not that we don't learn whatever it is that we set out to learn, it is just that the path we take to get there turns out to look very different and take us somewhere entirely different than what we originally thought it be like, from before we really got into it.  The perspective changes along the way.

With that being said, I have had times when I have felt as though I am truly playing the piano.  Sometimes it has been during formal performances, sometimes it has been when I am alone, sometimes it has been while I am playing for my teacher or even for my pets.  Interestingly enough, the actual music I was playing has varied as well.  Sometimes I have been improvising on purpose, sometimes it has been while improvising during a formal concert wihtin a formal piece of music during a memory lapse, sometimes it has been while I am playing exactly what is written on the page. 

So, what I realized somewhere along the lines, is that really playing is not actually dependent on outward circumstances.  What I am playing, for whom I am playing, where I am playing, what schools I have been to, which teachers I have studied with (though, out of all of the things I just listed, I would say that this particular aspect seems to have the most overlap on this topic) and so on.

What it comes down to for me, I suppose, is an experience I have within while I am playing.  And, I can say that in all of the cases I mentioned above, my experiences within the very moments of feeling like I am really playing has involved the following VERY DISTINCT factors :

1.  Courageousness/fearlessness/unworried
2.  I feel no resistence to being open musically/no walls
3.  Very calm focus
4.  In-the-moment energy and thinking   


For me, that is really playing (and probaby a big addiction for me).  In the end, I believe it is entirely personal and primarily internal as to whether or not an individual feels they can really play the piano.  For some it may be a matter of people telling them they can.  I wonder how far that alone would get a person ?  Whatever the case, I would venture to say that the point should be to form some kind of internal platform to stand on (and nobody else needs to know what that is), no matter how small or unrespected by "the world" and then stand on that and fearlessly build from there.  Whatever a person feels they can truly stand on, it probably most clearly defines that person's ability to play.  So, it is worthwhile to pick/discern something really, really strong.

I think this aspect is often difficult to come to terms with, but it is whatever one finds themselves coming back to over and over.  Probably in the end, it is nothing more or less than simple in*tu*i*tion. 



m1469

[prometheus]

Answer: very badly/a little/I am just starting out learning it/Yes, but I am a total beginner/etc.

[m1469]

Answer: very badly/a little/I am just starting out learning it/Yes, but I am a total beginner/etc.

And at what point, exactly, would a person grow out of giving such answers ?


If a person sees it the way you describe, chances are, they will never fully grow out of that.  And, while I support true humility, I don't think humility is the same as not having any confidence.   True humility inspires one to move forward and progress, lack of confidence has the complete opposite effect.

Really the answer to "do you play the piano ?" (Which is not the same as the topic question) is either "yes" or "no" and that depends on how a person views themself. 


m1469

[rimv2]

And at what point, exactly, would a person grow out of giving such answers ?


If a person sees it this way, chances are, they will never grow out of that.  And, while I support true humility, I don't think humility is the same as not having any confidence.   True humility inspires one to move forward and progress, lack of confidence has the complete opposite effect.

Really the answer to "do you play the piano ?" (Which is not the same as the topic question) is either "yes" or "no" and that depends on how a person views themself. 


m1469

Ah can play Brahms Ballade in D minor, Chopin Etudes 10-1 and 10-12, and pretty much any Beethoven Sonata thrown at meh. Ironically Ah still wont consider mahself to be a pianist until ahve play fo at least ten years

[m1469]

Ah can play Brahms Ballade in D minor, Chopin Etudes 10-1 and 10-12, and pretty much any Beethoven Sonata thrown at meh. Ironically Ah still wont consider mahself to be a pianist until ahve play fo at least ten years

well, he he, that's exactly my point(s).

[timothy42b]

Really the answer to "do you play the piano ?" (Which is not the same as the topic question) is either "yes" or "no" and that depends on how a person views themself. 


m1469

Yes, precisely.

So it is not a matter of skill level, though a certain minimum could be required, I guess.  But given any particular level, a person could answer yes or no based on their attitude. 

The corollary might be that the sooner you change your answer to yes, the better. 

Idly speculating out loud:  This question might be harder on piano than most instruments for a couple of reasons.  One is that it really is harder to play - because the music CAN be harder due to the possibilities of the instrument, it IS written harder.  Perhaps unnecessarily so. 

The other is that piano has built up a unique culture, where you can practise alone for many years without ever having the intent to play in public, always developing and perfecting yourself.  It is as if you are practising (not playing) piano for some self-improvement purpose, like an athlete who uses a tennis racket to get in shape, but doesn't "play" tennis.  So we are conditioned to answer no when after a year of lessons the answer absolutely should be yes.

After a year of lessons nobody (except Bernard's students, of course <grin>) can play Chopin.  Everybody should be able to play a I, IV, and V7 in at least one key, allowing them to play 99% of the world's rock songs.  That means technically at that point you can play piano.  And at that skill level on guitar you would play. 

Or not, I could be totally wrong as always.

Suggestion:  If you are going to answer yes, memorize at least one easy piece you can rattle off at speed without stumbles, so if they call your bluff you have something to show.  <grin>

[sportsmonster]

you dont always have to mention that you are the best pianoplayer in the world
it is enough to say that you play the piano. and dont say anymore until your friends ask you more questions. like how long you have played.etc.  and just answer honestly.

you might also be very good at the piano comparing to how long you have played.
you can tell youself and others that you have a natural talent and will be an expert in the future.

you dont always have to mention the now time

[zheer]

Well pianolearn if they ask you can you play the piano say yes a little bitt.

[sportsmonster]

Well pianolearn if they ask you can you play the piano say yes a little bitt.

thankyou zheer for coming up with the easiest and the best answer

why didnt i think of that myself?...(i make things so complicated)

[timothy42b]

Well, it's an interesting thread.

But is the specific answer useful? 

I suggest not.

I was at the high school football game this weekend.  I probably saw a couple hundred people.  None of them asked me if I play piano. 

I have 314 employees.  None of them have ever asked if I play piano.  And quite a few bosses.  Ditto. 

I've sung in church choirs most of my life.  Nobody there has ever asked. 

Thinking back over my 52 years, I realize the question has NEVER come up. 

So where the hiccup do you hang out, that you keep getting these questions?

Enquiring minds want to know.  <grin> 

[pianolearner]

Well, it's an interesting thread.

But is the specific answer useful? 

I suggest not.

I was at the high school football game this weekend.  I probably saw a couple hundred people.  None of them asked me if I play piano. 

I have 314 employees.  None of them have ever asked if I play piano.  And quite a few bosses.  Ditto. 

I've sung in church choirs most of my life.  Nobody there has ever asked. 

Thinking back over my 52 years, I realize the question has NEVER come up. 

So where the hiccup do you hang out, that you keep getting these questions?

Enquiring minds want to know.  <grin> 

timothy,

My original question was hypothetical:- "So *if* someone asks me if I can play the piano, should my answer be “Yes” or “No, but I’m learning”?"

However it is one I've been asking myself recently, especially after reading the threads in this forum-- At what point would a person confidently proclaim "[They] can play the piano"? What exactly does that mean?

1) Do they have many pieces in their repertoire that they can play from memory?
2) Can they improvise?
3) Can they play a piece they have never seen before with few mistakes?

There have been many good points of view given so far. Last night I was drinking with a group of friends and one of my closer friends asked how my piano playing was progressing. The others who didn’t know I was learning were impressed and we started to talk about what “playing” actually means. It does crop up in conversation when catching up with old friends or acquaintances. I usually just say that I am learning to play the piano.

[leahcim]

So where the hiccup do you hang out, that you keep getting these questions?

Last time I was asked, they were looking at the digital piano in our house.
I answered no - because I think the question was really "Will whomever plays this play it now?"

Although it was the first person who has been in my house who entertained the idea that there was some way of pressing the keys that was "correct" and had to be learned, I thanked him for that after all the comments of "Why not just play, that's what we did"

To address what you said slightly earlier in the thread though.

I'd probably answer yes if I could play 2 notes "properly" - at least in the sense that I felt I was relaxed, comfortable, sitting properly etc and consciously deciding how I wanted the notes to sound and then playing them so they sounded that way.

But I don't think that'll ever happen or at least, it's going to require some amazing flash of lightening experience where it suddenly does,  because I've run the gamut of adjustments, trial and error, books and a teacher addressing it and it hasn't happened yet.

So, for me, I suspect I'll always say no - but there's a point where it's pointless playing the same piece, you just have to accept a piece as done when it's as good as you can get it. In that sense, I suspect I'll be playing pieces that would fool the kind of person that asks the question, even though I can't actually play 2 notes properly - I wonder how many pianists live with that and what level they get to?

[timothy42b]

timothy,

My original question was hypothetical:- "So *if* someone asks me if I can play the piano, should my answer be “Yes” or “No, but I’m learning”?"

However it is one I've been asking myself recently, especially after reading the threads in this forum-- At what point would a person confidently proclaim "[They] can play the piano"? What exactly does that mean?

Good point.  And I wasn't trying to be critical, hope you weren't offended.

Because it strikes me now that there are really two questions of interest (at least). 

What does it mean to "play piano?"

And more important, why can't we?

I suggest this.  At the same minimal level of skill, one person can play but admittedly has gaps in his/her ability; the other person cannot play; and the difference is solely a matter of attitude.  Person Number Two has not yet made the decision to say "Yes, I play."

To a non piano player the question would mean something different.  Can you perform simple to medium hard music with minimal preparation fluently? 

Many piano players with 8 years of lessons might have to answer no.    Ask a golfer after 8 years taking lessons from the club pro to play with your foursome this weekend.  It is unlikely he will have to say no, he can't play yet, hasn't learned to hit a drive. 

I know Bernhard says you can learn all the technique necessary in 1 - 3 years, and I believe him.  (though I'm a bit slower than that I suspect)  In most endeavors though you make improvement for roughly 8 years then diminishing returns set in.  Okay, I assert that most avocational musicians will be able to sit in with a community band and not embarass themselves too badly two years after taking up an instrument.  At that point they can claim to "play" bassoon or fluegelhorn or whatever, though they clearly can't perform the classical solos or excerpts at that point.  Piano should be no different. 

[lani_piano_learner]

Hi there,

I've come across this from the opposite angle. I've had people say they can play the piano and upon further questioning it was 20 years ago, they haven't touched one since and can't remember anything. So they "use to be able to play piano" would be a more accurate response.

Also, other people have said they can play piano so I say "sit down and play me something" but its like chopstics or 2 finger pieces - something just about everyone who can't play can play.   :)So that too doesn't count as I-can-play-the-piano to me.

I tell people I can play the clarinet cause I'm at intermediate, have had lessons  and grades for 4 years, can sight read pretty well and have a good repoirte of maybe a hundred pieces plus I can play/sight read to a good level.
As a clause I say "that I am still learning and only intermediate" so they don't expect professional standard.

With piano, I say I have just started learning the piano (alhtough I have been 'learning' for over 18 mths). This is because I can only play very simple pieces still and haven't been properly trained - so am probably making massive technique errors all over the place.

Good thread !!!

[wannasteinway]

Say "YES" i play piano, if you have been devoting over 30 hours to one piece i think you can call your-self a pianist!!Of course your not the best,you havent been playing long at all.you will keep learning and it will become alot easier very quickly,just keep giving time to your piano.