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Chopin op.10/1 (warning:work in progress) (Read 4934 times)

Offline paris

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Chopin op.10/1 (warning:work in progress)
« on: October 27, 2005, 01:14:38 PM »
i need this etude for competition by the end of february 2006. like i said, this is only work in progress. i'm aware that it's much slower then it should be but i guess i have time to speed it up.

forgive for terrible quality, i don't have proper recording equipment but at least this is accoustic piano. any comments and suggestions?

thank you for listening!

here's the link
http://www.savefile.com/files/9025980
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piano sheet music of Etude


Offline rimv2

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Re: Chopin op.10/1 (warning:work in progress)
«Reply #1 on: October 27, 2005, 03:10:11 PM »
After watching this year's chopin competition, Ahd say you are right on the mark with speed. Just focus on the dynamics more now. Every edition has something different -accept at those measure right before the repeat- so find what you feel should fit for the rest
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Offline cz4p32

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Re: Chopin op.10/1 (warning:work in progress)
«Reply #2 on: October 27, 2005, 03:51:04 PM »
very nice.  that's about the fastest i can play it without either making a million mistakes or being stiff as a board when i finish.  But very few mistakes at all.  Its not an easy piece to play perfect.  Just a bit faster, and you have it!

Offline Dazzer

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Re: Chopin op.10/1 (warning:work in progress)
«Reply #3 on: October 27, 2005, 03:59:58 PM »
that's what i said, but no she doesn't believe me:D

Offline zheer

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Re: Chopin op.10/1 (warning:work in progress)
«Reply #4 on: October 27, 2005, 06:24:41 PM »
Sounded good to me but a little on the slow side, you are playing it at 128 - 130 ctotchet per minut, it should be 179 - 185 at least for competitionn standard. All the best.
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Offline rimv2

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Re: Chopin op.10/1 (warning:work in progress)
«Reply #5 on: October 27, 2005, 08:51:15 PM »
Hehe. Untrue.
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Offline violinist

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Re: Chopin op.10/1 (warning:work in progress)
«Reply #6 on: October 28, 2005, 12:19:06 AM »
I started this piece.  and gave up.  Maybe I can try it again.  I'm such a copy cat.
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Offline sonatainfsharp

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Re: Chopin op.10/1 (warning:work in progress)
«Reply #7 on: October 28, 2005, 02:45:26 AM »
I hate it when people make this piece look easy.  :P

I still can't get this one and my hands are huge. You have inspired me to try again, though!!!

Offline violinist

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Re: Chopin op.10/1 (warning:work in progress)
«Reply #8 on: October 28, 2005, 04:47:35 AM »
I'm jealous!!!

It's so good!

How did you record it Paris?  I want to try to do a video like that someday.
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Offline sara81

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Re: Chopin op.10/1 (warning:work in progress)
«Reply #9 on: October 28, 2005, 07:09:43 PM »
Ulalala :P ;)

Fino to tebi ide..u fak na engleskom.

It's still quite fresh,but for this stage,I think it is very good ;)
Your technique is very good,so I think you won't have any problems with this etude.
A little bit faster tempo,and biggfer differences between forte and piano.But the recording isn't so good,and somethings are too delicate to tape it on digital camera:)

Ofcourse...I have a recording of all Chopin's etudes with Boris Berezowski(guess who gave it to me ;D),and he plays it just perfect..and everything that is a little bit different,it is strange to me.

Habbit is the worse thing that ever happend to mankind ;D
However..Very nice :-*
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Offline chopiabin

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Re: Chopin op.10/1 (warning:work in progress)
«Reply #10 on: October 29, 2005, 10:20:00 AM »
How long have you been working on this piece or had it memorized?

Offline paris

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Re: Chopin op.10/1 (warning:work in progress)
«Reply #11 on: October 29, 2005, 12:22:17 PM »
Sounded good to me but a little on the slow side, you are playing it at 128 - 130 ctotchet per minut, it should be 179 - 185 at least for competitionn standard. All the best.

i warned you its kinda slow. i can play easily without mistakes around 132-144 and. in my edition there's speed mark 176 but i don't think it has to be that fast. even at 152 it sounds ''grand'' and ''virtuoso''. and i certainly go for clarity rather than speed. speed will come along, now i'm more focusing on eveness, clarity, dinamics. and very important thing-at this speed i don't have any problems with getting stiff, tired...at all.

I hate it when people make this piece look easy. :P

I still can't get this one and my hands are huge. You have inspired me to try again, though!!!

looks easy? well, i have very big pleasure playing this etude. maybe thats the reason.  :P

I'm jealous!!!

It's so good!

How did you record it Paris? I want to try to do a video like that someday.

i recorded it with digital cam sony DSC-S80 which i use for taking pics too. its not good quality, mainly because there's no wide dinamics range. on this recording you can't hear big difference between forte and piano (a-minor arpeggio for example)

How long have you been working on this piece or had it memorized?

i started it when i was 15 and now i'm 16. but i didn't work continuosly because my teacher didn't want to give me that piece. i worked some time on my own on it. she said it was too difficult for female hands, but then i learned it and forced her to listen me haha. now i'm preparing it for competition  ;D

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Offline etudes

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Re: Chopin op.10/1 (warning:work in progress)
«Reply #12 on: October 29, 2005, 02:42:35 PM »
great job paris
btw i would recommend you to find new place for camera so we can see you movement of hand
btw recording sound great i agree with you that speed come along dynamic,clarity,evenness is more important if you play very clear and even it sounds faster than you play fast but uneven
am sure you can manage it down before competition
have fun!!
ps.find new camera for better sound!!
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Offline zheer

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Re: Chopin op.10/1 (warning:work in progress)
«Reply #13 on: October 29, 2005, 03:44:34 PM »
Please dont get me wrong paris, but try listining to the 17 year old Gardels,C,from pianostreet . com, he does unleash the dragon. The Etude has to sound both musical and fast, anything below 130 beats per minut will sound Allegro moderato . I personal play this Etude once every morning at 30 crotchets per minut. Keep up the good work i can see and hear that you have the ability to play it at 176 bears per minut eventually. All the best.
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Offline joachimf

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Re: Chopin op.10/1 (warning:work in progress)
«Reply #14 on: October 29, 2005, 08:59:18 PM »
Very good!

*applause*

Very even and great clarity! Speed will come along =)
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Offline m4ul

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Re: Chopin op.10/1 (warning:work in progress)
«Reply #15 on: October 29, 2005, 10:52:54 PM »
Please dont get me wrong paris, but try listining to the 17 year old Gardels,C,from pianostreet . com, he does unleash the dragon. The Etude has to sound both musical and fast, anything below 130 beats per minut will sound Allegro moderato .

Well, the topic is called;
Chopin op.10/1 (warning:work in progress). Notice the 'warning: work in progress' behind the lines. It even has an introductory note:
i'm aware that it's much slower then it should be but i guess i have time to speed it up.
Just reminding you because it's the 2nd time you're needlessly saying its too slow.

Offline rimv2

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Re: Chopin op.10/1 (warning:work in progress)
«Reply #16 on: October 30, 2005, 04:34:06 AM »
Haha. Ah wish ah had a captain obvious pick for this person 8)
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Offline paris

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Re: Chopin op.10/1 (warning:work in progress)
«Reply #17 on: October 31, 2005, 09:52:30 PM »
Please dont get me wrong paris, but try listining to the 17 year old Gardels,C,from pianostreet . com, he does unleash the dragon. The Etude has to sound both musical and fast, anything below 130 beats per minut will sound Allegro moderato . I personal play this Etude once every morning at 30 crotchets per minut. Keep up the good work i can see and hear that you have the ability to play it at 176 bears per minut eventually. All the best.

 i'd like to hear it, could you please give me the link?   
you play it 30 crotchets per minut? wow ummm. any particular reason why you're doing that? cos i've read in book called ''Live Chopin'' or something like that, where chopin suggests to play this etude very VERY slow every morning. and there's written that people often wrong, rush and play it at full speed all messy and there's no advantage of doing that. when i was starting it, i used to play it like 60 or even less too. bit depressing though but it helps.
and thank you for your best wishes!
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Offline gaer

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Re: Chopin op.10/1 (warning:work in progress)
«Reply #18 on: November 01, 2005, 04:36:15 AM »
One thing that may make you sound slower than you are really playing is the lack of dynamics, and that would be due to the recording. For ME, it can work at the tempo you are playing at, if you do enough musical things with it. Someone could play it at your tempo, if it was musical enough, and convince me.

I am totally convinced most players play things much faster than Chopin did, or wanted them played. Think of how many ridiculously fast recordings you hear of the "Revolutionary".

For the record, I can't play this etude to save my life. In my experience, many people with large hands have special problems with this because they are used to being able to feel long reaches, while people with slightly smaller hands are more experienced at "letting the hands fly". So for me Op. 10 No. 4 is not a problem, this one ties my hands in knots.

Finally, what could possibly be more intelligent than playing within your ability NOW. So in my opinion, what you are doing NOW is absolutely perfect. Let the speed come naturally, over time, while playing other pieces. I do think you will have to perform it a bit faster, not because it is musically necessary, but because faster and louder has become the standard in the world of piano competitions.

And since I can't play this, I'd be very happy to play it at your "practice speed". ;)

Gary

Offline zheer

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Re: Chopin op.10/1 (warning:work in progress)
«Reply #19 on: November 01, 2005, 08:09:00 AM »
I agree with you Paris clarity is important, if one can play for calrity one can creat the illusion of speed, in all honesty piano playing is an illusion. Chopin composed this Etude when he was 19 though he was influenced by Lizt who also wrote a number of studies, one of them is similar to op.10/1. Its a work of a genios because no amount of scales or arppegios can help with playing this etude. You said you dont get stiff your hands dont get hard, thats because you have masterd the concept of relaxation and freedom and understandig of musical patterns. As you know this Etude starts with one simple broken chord and repeats its self a number of times up and down the piano.
            Why do i play it at 30 beats per minut every morning, well because at that tempo i can really feel the depth of the piano keys , thus concentrating on creating a reasonable tone, playing the Etude fast is just a matter of thinking faster, hence bringing the notes closer together. I can imagin you finding op25num1 very easy ,  i bet you can play that beautifully. Anyway you are so young you have all the time in the world, you are very gifted. All the best.
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Offline pita bread

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Re: Chopin op.10/1 (warning:work in progress)
«Reply #20 on: November 01, 2005, 08:19:06 AM »
Please dont get me wrong paris, but try listining to the 17 year old Gardels,C,from pianostreet . com, he does unleash the dragon. The Etude has to sound both musical and fast, anything below 130 beats per minut will sound Allegro moderato . I personal play this Etude once every morning at 30 crotchets per minut. Keep up the good work i can see and hear that you have the ability to play it at 176 bears per minut eventually. All the best.

Carlos Gardels from California?

Offline paris

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Re: Chopin op.10/1 (warning:work in progress)
«Reply #21 on: November 01, 2005, 09:19:42 AM »
I can imagin you finding op25num1 very easy ,  i bet you can play that beautifully. Anyway you are so young you have all the time in the world, you are very gifted. All the best.

interestingly, my first chopin etude was 10/9 and after i finished it, teacher gave me 25/1. its a beutiful etude but at that time i felt in love with 10/1. i tried to avoid 25/1 in every case and start working on 10/1. i wasn't very familiar with chopin etudes and their difficulty so i came to teacher and told her 25/1 is too difficult for me...and after i mentioned 10/1 as substitution hmm just imagine her slightly shocked look
how embarassing...
but now, i think i could play much more easily 25/1 then few months ago. too bad i don't have much time to do it properly, and my wish is to do ocean etude as well cos its one of my favorites.

Carlos Gardels from California?

whats his nickname here?
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Offline zheer

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Re: Chopin op.10/1 (warning:work in progress)
«Reply #22 on: November 01, 2005, 04:51:59 PM »
whats his nickname here?




No nickname, you can find on the piano society section, under Chopin Etude.
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Offline danyal

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Re: Chopin op.10/1 (warning:work in progress)
«Reply #23 on: November 02, 2005, 08:44:09 PM »
Excellent!

Its clear and neat, and every note shines for what it should! I suppose there's nothing more I can say that hasnt been said already... about more dynamic and general atmosphere range... etc etc

I think its going to be incredible by the competition :) Haha, I havent even started 2 or 3 of my pieces for my comp next year.

But generally you've done an excellent job on this! You make it look incredibly easy.

P.S, my friend was listening to it with me on sat and she says you play it like Pollini.
I dont play an instrument, I play the piano.

Offline pita bread

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Re: Chopin op.10/1 (warning:work in progress)
«Reply #24 on: November 08, 2005, 05:04:02 AM »
whats his nickname here?

Naw, I just know him in person.

Offline paris

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Re: Chopin op.10/1 (warning:work in progress)
«Reply #25 on: November 16, 2005, 05:24:50 PM »
thanks for all comments!

here's a new recording of 10/1 i made a week ago. i think its better then previous one, but still there is no wide dynamic range and i've discovered thats mainly because of poor equipment. all dinamics i usually do i had to increase couple of times to sound just a slightly different on recording...

here's link again

http://www.savefile.com/files.php?fid=9512096
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Offline zheer

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Re: Chopin op.10/1 (warning:work in progress)
«Reply #26 on: November 16, 2005, 06:33:12 PM »
Hi its me again, well it put a smile to my face, however it remains the same, apart from the dynamics which is more intresting now. As you have changed the camer angle i have noticed that you play these arppegios in a similar style to Franz Lizt, which works very well. Have you ever tryd playing this Etude with your left hand, ie arppegios with the left hand and octaves with the right hand.
      Its a funy etude because its the most simple etude if its playd slowly, but one of the most difficult if playd fast. This morening i was expermenting with this etude i was practicing various passages at 180 - 190 crochet beats per minut, after about an hour or two my left hand and wrist turnd red, or pinky red because of the heat. However i dont feel any pain , tension or stress, and can probably carry on for 12 hours. I belive Alfred Cortot practiced this etude 6 hours a day and Lizt woud practice the piano 14 hours a day.All the best.
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Offline jamie_liszt

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Re: Chopin op.10/1 (warning:work in progress)
«Reply #27 on: November 20, 2005, 06:22:51 AM »
hmm ive been learning this piece for a total of 3 hours , 30 minutes for about a week now, and i can play the first page and about 3 measures of the 2nd page at about 138 - 144 bpm! i havnt added any dynamics yet, im finding it hard to speed it up past 152 without it becoming messy!

you play this piece well, cant wait to hear the finished recording :)

Offline rimv2

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Re: Chopin op.10/1 (warning:work in progress)
«Reply #28 on: November 20, 2005, 07:02:04 AM »
hmm ive been learning this piece for a total of 3 hours , 30 minutes for about a week now, and i can play the first page and about 3 measures of the 2nd page at about 138 - 144 bpm! i havnt added any dynamics yet, im finding it hard to speed it up past 152 without it becoming messy!

you play this piece well, cant wait to hear the finished recording :)

Here's a tip:

Dont go that fast until you have the entire piece learned. It will make sectional trasition awkward  and more noticeable instead of steady. Also, if you play it messy this early on, you may have to drop it for a while to get it clean again.
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Offline paris

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Re: Chopin op.10/1 (warning:work in progress)
«Reply #29 on: November 21, 2005, 01:47:54 PM »
Hi its me again, well it put a smile to my face, however it remains the same, apart from the dynamics which is more intresting now. As you have changed the camer angle i have noticed that you play these arppegios in a similar style to Franz Lizt, which works very well. Have you ever tryd playing this Etude with your left hand, ie arppegios with the left hand and octaves with the right hand.

hey i'm not familiar with the way liszt played it, but i can only imagine how that sounded hehe
i tried few days ago that what you said about playing with left hand. its crazy and fun! i think its slightly easier then with right hand, comparing to when i was firstly starting 10/1...maybe is easier just because i'm familiar with notes. or maybe because my right hand is generally weaker then left due to injury when i was 5-6years old.
i believe there was one female pianist who used to play in that way but i can't recall the name
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Offline zheer

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Re: Chopin op.10/1 (warning:work in progress)
«Reply #30 on: November 21, 2005, 03:31:49 PM »
hey i'm not familiar with the way liszt played it, but i can only imagine how that sounded hehe


The way Liszt playd these arppegios, well emagin that your right hand is an airplain and its on the piano keys, now lets pretend that the little finger is the right wing and the thumb is the left wing. As you play the first E on this etude the airplain has tilted its wing to the right and to play the C the airplain has to tilt its left wing to the left etc etc, hence eventually these arpegios will look like waves on the ocian.
             My teacher had to show me this on the piano. Try it its the best way to creat legato, because the thumb is always ready to play the next note.
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Offline rimv2

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Re: Chopin op.10/1 (warning:work in progress)
«Reply #31 on: November 22, 2005, 06:46:59 AM »
hey i'm not familiar with the way liszt played it, but i can only imagine how that sounded hehe
i tried few days ago that what you said about playing with left hand. its crazy and fun! i think its slightly easier then with right hand, comparing to when i was firstly starting 10/1...maybe is easier just because i'm familiar with notes. or maybe because my right hand is generally weaker then left due to injury when i was 5-6years old.
i believe there was one female pianist who used to play in that way but i can't recall the name


Try playing the piece mirrored  8)

a=g, f=b, c=e - right hand ocs - left hand arps

it takes a while to get the notes right

but soon you start to figure them out without much thought

ah gonna make a sheet for it one day

cause its juss too badazz
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Offline jamie_liszt

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Re: Chopin op.10/1 (warning:work in progress)
«Reply #32 on: November 22, 2005, 11:50:25 AM »
what do you do at the start with the c octave in left and the c played in the right hand ?

Offline paris

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Re: Chopin op.10/1 (warning:work in progress)
«Reply #33 on: November 23, 2005, 10:29:54 PM »
what do you do at the start with the c octave in left and the c played in the right hand ?

left hands plays arpeggios (5-4-2-1 fingering for first c-g-c-e) and right hand plays c octave. its soo fun!
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Offline rimv2

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Re: Chopin op.10/1 (warning:work in progress)
«Reply #34 on: November 24, 2005, 03:26:52 AM »
what do you do at the start with the c octave in left and the c played in the right hand ?

move up a couple of octaves and play E instead of C

The left hand takes the exact same fingering as the right

You basically play the piece mirrored

It might even help with left hand tech
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Offline hiline

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Re: Chopin op.10/1 (warning:work in progress)
«Reply #35 on: September 23, 2006, 02:38:02 PM »
OK. How's the work now? :)
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Offline paris

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Re: Chopin op.10/1 (warning:work in progress)
«Reply #36 on: September 23, 2006, 09:43:58 PM »
OK. How's the work now? :)

woo bumping my old thread. is that link working still?

unfortunately i'm not doing it anymore. we decided to go with safer alternative for competition, because having this etude under your belt when playing in practise room isn't exactly the same when playing on stage under big pressure. i have it almost finished, once i'll take it again. dunno. maybe i'm just a chicken hahaha

well, interesting thing with this one. i didn't practise it for loooong time and tried playing without any preparing and it was surprisingly very clear, just a bit slower then usual, due to out of shape condition  8)
Critics! If one would be a critic, one should begin with self-criticism !
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