naming a song

[pianohopper]

I am writing a song, but I don't know how to name it.  What is, for example, the difference between:

Prelude (comes before something, but Chopin wrote opuses of only preludes)
Ballade
Nocturne (night music?)
Etude/Etude-Tableaux (study/study-something)
Impromptu (written off the top of the head?)
Romance
Fantasy
Moment-Musicauex (spelling?)
or anything else I am forgetting.

Help from the seasoned composers?

[stevie]

you can call it anything....

song..haha, ok, ill lveavbe thst ok

[steve jones]

Absolutely, name your pieces as you see fit. The titles you mentioned are merely descriptive names, hinting towards the nature of the piece. As you stated, a prelude tends to be a piece coming before another, usually a fugue if memory serves. Im sure if you performed a google search you would find detailed definitions of any musical term.

[phil13]

I am writing a song, but I don't know how to name it.  What is, for example, the difference between:

Prelude (comes before something, but Chopin wrote opuses of only preludes)
Ballade
Nocturne (night music?)
Etude/Etude-Tableaux (study/study-something)
Impromptu (written off the top of the head?)
Romance
Fantasy
Moment-Musicauex (spelling?)
or anything else I am forgetting.

Help from the seasoned composers?

Like the others said, you can call it anything.

Here, however, are some simple parts that define the form of a piece:

Prelude: Can come before a piece, but sometimes written in whole opi because they are meant to go in front of something else at the discretion of the performer.

Ballade: Suggests some sort of story. Program music, if you will.

Nocturne: Yes, it is night music. Meant to be conveyed in a dreamy aura, and in free form (although Chopin's tend to follow an A-B-A type of form)

Etude: Study of a particular pianistic difficulty.

Impromptu: Not written off the top of the head, buit written so that it sounds like you wrote it off the top of your head. An impromptu should always sound like it's going somewhere, and you don't know where.

Romance: Think of love and poetry- maybe something you would serenade your love with (although it would be pretty hard to move a piano all the way to beneath your significant other's bedroom window.  )

Fantasy: Completely free-form. Think of it as a super-Impromptu.

Moments-Musicaux: These are just little ditties. Bagatelles and ecossaises are the same way. They just expand a small idea slightly.

The bigger forms are a lot harder to write for unless you happen, like me, to think in large structures. Most of what I write is in some version of sonata form. I just can't leave the little pieces at what they are: little pieces.

Phil

[ted]

These days I usually can't be bothered giving them names at all. As most modern music defines its own forms anyway, those old names usually do not convery much information to the listener and are purely nominal. The best titles are those which suggest but do not confine, excite the imagination but do not restrict it. Thus "Song of Aragorn" is probably not as good as "Ellen Lauderdale" because the former may restrict the listener to thinking about Lord of the Rings while the latter establishes an enigma about who "Ellen Lauderdale" might have been.

In some genres, traditions have evolved which have no connection at all with the music or its effect. Joplin used names of leaves and plants and Scott's publisher started using words ending in "ity" - "Hilarity Rag", "Prosperity Rag" etc. Some of the titles of Frank Bridge and John Ireland, I think, are very good because they excite the imagination without being specific enough to restrict it - "The Midnight Tide", "Through the Eaves", "In a May Morning".

In the end though, music is completely abstract, and the listener must always be at complete liberty to imagine anything he chooses. Recordings of my improvisation, for instance, I long ago ceased to name. I just write the date and time on them. Personal associations may well exist but I keep them to myself.

[nicko124]

These days I usually can't be bothered giving them names at all. As most modern music defines its own forms anyway, those old names usually do not convery much information to the listener and are purely nominal. The best titles are those which suggest but do not confine, excite the imagination but do not restrict it. Thus "Song of Aragorn" is probably not as good as "Ellen Lauderdale" because the former may restrict the listener to thinking about Lord of the Rings while the latter establishes an enigma about who "Ellen Lauderdale" might have been.

In some genres, traditions have evolved which have no connection at all with the music or its effect. Joplin used names of leaves and plants and Scott's publisher started using words ending in "ity" - "Hilarity Rag", "Prosperity Rag" etc. Some of the titles of Frank Bridge and John Ireland, I think, are very good because they excite the imagination without being specific enough to restrict it - "The Midnight Tide", "Through the Eaves", "In a May Morning".

In the end though, music is completely abstract, and the listener must always be at complete liberty to imagine anything he chooses. Recordings of my improvisation, for instance, I long ago ceased to name. I just write the date and time on them. Personal associations may well exist but I keep them to myself.

Interesting, i have always wondered how Joplin came up with the wide variety of titles for his rags. However one of his rags was just called 'Scott  Joplin's New Rag'.

It's obviously much better for them (the rags) to have titles because its  ore memorable than having them called rag#1 etc.

[Tash]

i'd just call it a sonata and leave it at that

[nicko124]

I am writing a song, but I don't know how to name it.  What is, for example, the difference between:

Prelude (comes before something, but Chopin wrote opuses of only preludes)
Ballade
Nocturne (night music?)
Etude/Etude-Tableaux (study/study-something)
Impromptu (written off the top of the head?)
Romance
Fantasy
Moment-Musicauex (spelling?)
or anything else I am forgetting.

Help from the seasoned composers?

If your still 'writing' it than why not leave the naming of it till you have finished writing it. You should have a better perspective of it if it is a finished piece and you can give it a suitable title.

[alessandro]

I think 'Naming a Song' is a nice title. The long a in 'naming' and the fresh sounding contrapunctual 'song' gives the whole a mysterious and musical touch.

[prometheus]

Song?


If you didn't write the piece according to some form why call it after such a form. If you didn't start out with the idea to write a toccata why call it a toccata? It very probably isn't a toccata.

[abell88]

i'd just call it a sonata and leave it at that

Only if it's written in sonata form, I hope!

I agree, finish the piece and then decide on a title.

[Dazzer]

Here are the titles of my early hwk compositions:

"a prelude which sounds like a fugue"
"A piece in Emaj, but is actually in G# minor" (after a hilarious crazy 2 bar modulation intro... at least i found it funny... )
"Untitled" (of course... when you're lazy, sibelius already has a name for you... I shall patent this)

[contrapunctus]

Only if it's written in sonata form, I hope!

I agree, finish the piece and then decide on a title.

Are you an idiot?

Every instrumental peice of music is a sonata.

Sonata:  Sonare- to sound.    literally means a piece played as opposed to a cantata (cantare- to sing).

[brahmsian]

Are you an idiot?

Every instrumental peice of music is a sonata.

Sonata:  Sonare- to sound.    literally means a piece played as opposed to a cantata (cantare- to sing).

No... that's why different pieces of music are called different things....

I refer you here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonata_form

There's a difference between "sonata" and "sonata form".

[Dazzer]

oooh another one bites the dust.

on that note.

why isit onlly the first movement (the sonata-allegro)? (as i'm reading on wikipedia)

and who was the smartass who made it 3 movements anyway.

and does that mean Scarlatti sonatas come from Sonare, and not sonata? As i believe they don't really follow the sonata form?

[abell88]

Are you an idiot?

Every instrumental peice of music is a sonata.

Sonata:  Sonare- to sound.    literally means a piece played as opposed to a cantata (cantare- to sing).

No, I'm not.

I believe you when you say that's where the word sonata came from; however, I believe the term nowadays is always used to refer to a specific musical form.  I have never encountered it otherwise, and I think it would be misleading to label, say, a free-form work a "sonata" rather than a fantasia.

[prometheus]

Well, we can have a discussion about this. Surely 'sonata' does suggest a number of sonata forms. It is correct that sonata was once used as the opposite of 'cantata' and that it referred to a instrumental piece of music. But labeling every piece of insrumental music as a sonata is very wrong.

A fantasia isn't simply a free-form work. A fantasia must sound like other fantasia's, it must be comparible.

Nowadays sonata means a very major piece of instrumental absolute music. It should be a very notable work in the repetoire of the composer.

If you wrote a piece and you didn't really know what you were doing then calling it a sonata is kind of strange. Naming it a fantasia could also be considered incorrect, but that depends of the character of the piece.

[Tash]

well it depends on what era of music you're looking at. if you're looking at baroque music then a sonata is randomly whatever, which is what i was thinking of, thus agreeing with contrapuntus. hell corelli's violin sonata in Gminor op.5 no.12(la folia) is a set of variations
sure, there is the whole sonata form thing, but that's generally limited to one movement. and then how many movements? that's up to the composer. then looking at 20th century sonatas- how many of them include sonata form? (i'm actually asking because i have no idea i've never analysed any of them)

and then there are pieces that aren't sonatas that have sonata form (i'd insert an example here except i can't remember any...how good am i at arguing points)

so basically if we really want to put some depth into my previous comment (that was really just random and not that serious) let's say you were being influenced by the baroque term.

but hey what do i know, my knowledge of the sonata post-baroqe post-classical is pretty limited

but seriously- can anyone give me an example of a sonata that doesn't include sonata form? like i could randomly say prokofiev's sonata no.3, but that would be based on me guessing and probably being wrong...

[ted]

Do the two Ives sonatas have any sonata form in them or is the title "sonata" purely nominal ? I'm just asking out of curiosity as I haven't a clue what sonata form is and I have never experienced a desire to find out. They are my favourite pieces with the name "sonata".

[contrapunctus]

but seriously- can anyone give me an example of a sonata that doesn't include sonata form? like i could randomly say prokofiev's sonata no.3, but that would be based on me guessing and probably being wrong...

Almost all of the mid to late Scriabins. Basically any of the crappy chromatic modern ones.