Best Excercise for Equal Finger Strength

[jre58591]

This seems to be the biggest thing that I need to work on. Anyone have any suggestions?

[invictus]

Scales scales and more scales

[xvimbi]

This seems to be the biggest thing that I need to work on. Anyone have any suggestions?

There is no such thing as "equal finger strength". Piano playing is mainly a matter of coordination, which involves arms, shoulders and the entire torso. The fingers themselves play a much smaller role than usually assumed. I would recommend simply playing lots of music with good guidance as to what proper technique is. If you like exercises, go ahead and play scales or Hanon. If you don't, you could focus on pieces by Bach and Scarlatti. In anay case, you will benefit most from an experienced teacher who can show you how to make the most of it.

[kaiwin]

Try using more of your arm (whole arm) instead of just moving your fingers (otherwise they would be uncoordinated and have uneven finger strength. *Think Zombie*

Happy Halloween

[BoliverAllmon]

Bach

[Dazzer]

Its not so much the strength of each finger, than the ability to strike each key with the same velocity such that each note sounds at the same volume as each other.

The thumb (not any other finger) is the part most at fault, and is evident in many people when they play scales at a beginner level. Try listening at the point where the RH thumb strikes notes 1 and 4 of a scale. Usually you'll hear a very distinctive "Beat". The objective here is to practice the passing of the thumb with such efficiency that such a beat is minimised, and perhaps even removed. The other fingers usually do not have this particular "feature"

I am currently looking at particular exercises from Liszt Technical Exercises, regarding scales. The first book (which i wouldn't touch) consists of 40 exercises, each dedicated to a particular finger, or a set of fingers. (1 2 3 4 5 12 23 34 45 13 24 35 etc) but the other books are dedicated to a particular branch of technique. scales, thirds/6ths, double notes, chords octaves etc. You might find it useful. I, for one, am looking at the scales exercises.

I also currently downloaded Gyorgy Sandor's commentary on piano playing on this site. You might find the early chapters insightful as well, as he talks extensively on the arm mechanism relating to sound production, as well as many myths about playing.

[zheer]

Look at haw people walk, its true we use our arm our hips , but it is mainly the legs that do the walking, so i gess one should use the arms and wrist but it is mainly the fingers that do the walking. Chopin once said finger strengthining excercise is like learning to walk on our hand inorder to be able to walk on our legs , soon we can no longer walk with our legs nor with our hands. Second chopin belived that we should avoide training our fingers to be of equall strength since each finger has its on sound.

[Dazzer]

yes. sandor states that the fingers should not be "forcibly strained" as to acheive "strength". Instead, the other muscle groups should support the movements to produce the sound.

[zheer]

Nice to hear from you again Dazzer.

[Dazzer]

nah not really haha. My input is rarely worth anything.

[bernhard]

I am starting to get tired of this…

In order to equalise the fingers you don’t need exercises. You need surgery.

First let us get them all the same size by cutting the tips of all fingers to level them with the thumb.

Second let us turn the thumbs around so that they do not oppose the rest of the hand.

Third let us turn one of the hands (your choice, left or right) all the way around so that they are not symmetrical anymore. And make sure to tell the surgeon to reverse the joint movements as well on the hand s/he turns around.

There: all your fingers are equal and so are your hands.

Has it never occurred to you, people who keep asking this question over and over again, that you may all be starting from false premises?

Have a look here and spend sometime reflecting on it:

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4145.msg38568.html#msg38568
(beginner’s muscle development – anatomy of the hand forearm – true reasons for extremely slow practice)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2998.msg26268.html#msg26268
(Scales HT, why? – why and when to practise scales HS and HT – Pragmatical  x logical way of teaching – analogy with aikido – list of piano techniques – DVORAK – realistic x sports martial arts – technique and how to acquire it by solving technical problems – Hanon and why it should be avoided - Lemmings)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/board,4/topic,4880.3.html#msg46319
(discusses how to acquire technique and what technique actually is)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2033.msg16635.html#msg16635
(finger strength)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2502.msg21594.html#msg21594
(Independence of the 3rd and 4thfinger – it is impossible, one should work towards the illusion of independence: it is all arm work)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2507.msg21688.html#msg21688
(Round fingers – the role of fingers)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,5034.msg47829.html#msg47829
(The finger strength controversy – some excellent posts by xvimbi)

https://www.pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,7887.msg79326.html#msg79326
(why the lifting of the 4th finger is a non-problem)
https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,7341.msg114168.html#msg114168
(repeated note-groups for difficult passages – correct technique is never uncomfortable – rotation as the solution to 5th finger weakness – criticism to misguided technical exercises – trusting the unconscious)

Just the tip of the iceberg.


Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[chickering]

get the Hanon Virtuoso Pianist books. they're great. just do them over and over and eventually complete the book. these things work. trust me.

[bernhard]

get the Hanon Virtuoso Pianist books. they're great. just do them over and over and eventually complete the book. these things work. trust me.

Bad idea.

Have a look here:

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=13583.msg147163#msg147163
(Why Hanon is a waste of time - summary of arguments against and relevant links).

And you do notneed to trust me (or anyone). Read the arguments and decide for yourself.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[xvimbi]

Has it never occurred to you, people who keep asking this question over and over again, that you may all be starting from false premises?

That's a bit harsh. It is true that many people start from false premises, but to recognize this is far from trivial. If one doesn't know anything about anatomy, it is natural to spend a lot of time trying to make the fingers "equal", never realizing that this is futile. Likewise, when one starts out and doesn't know a lot about pianistic technique, one would probably do the same, because it is natural to believe that the fingers do most of the work, although that is really not the case. In hindsight, these things become more obvious, but a beginner needs proper guidance and needs the correct premises pointed out.

[Bob]

Sounds like the original poster meant faster and more developed fingers -- speed and endurance.  Probably working on the fourth and fifth fingers.

Scales still emphasize 1, 2, 3 I think, more than 4 and 5.

There's nothing like knowing your fingers can move fast if you need them to.


I just do some digital patterns I made up.  Nothing complicated.  A bit on the boring side, but effective.  My fingers got faster, more consistent, and I could play at that next level for longer amounts of time.

But that's just finger stuff too.

[jre58591]

yes, i did refer to faster and more developed fingers, i should have specified. i know that hanon and scales are important. i especially want to strengthen 4 and 5.

[xvimbi]

yes, i did refer to faster and more developed fingers, i should have specified. i know that hanon and scales are important. i especially want to strengthen 4 and 5.

What does "better developed" mean?

[BoliverAllmon]

I am starting to get tired of this…

In order to equalise the fingers you don’t need exercises. You need surgery.

First let us get them all the same size by cutting the tips of all fingers to level them with the thumb.

Second let us turn the thumbs around so that they do not oppose the rest of the hand.

Third let us turn one of the hands (your choice, left or right) all the way around so that they are not symmetrical anymore. And make sure to tell the surgeon to reverse the joint movements as well on the hand s/he turns around.

There: all your fingers are equal and so are your hands.

Has it never occurred to you, people who keep asking this question over and over again, that you may all be starting from false premises?

Have a look here and spend sometime reflecting on it:

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4145.msg38568.html#msg38568
(beginner’s muscle development – anatomy of the hand forearm – true reasons for extremely slow practice)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2998.msg26268.html#msg26268
(Scales HT, why? – why and when to practise scales HS and HT – Pragmatical  x logical way of teaching – analogy with aikido – list of piano techniques – DVORAK – realistic x sports martial arts – technique and how to acquire it by solving technical problems – Hanon and why it should be avoided - Lemmings)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/board,4/topic,4880.3.html#msg46319
(discusses how to acquire technique and what technique actually is)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2033.msg16635.html#msg16635
(finger strength)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2502.msg21594.html#msg21594
(Independence of the 3rd and 4thfinger – it is impossible, one should work towards the illusion of independence: it is all arm work)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2507.msg21688.html#msg21688
(Round fingers – the role of fingers)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,5034.msg47829.html#msg47829
(The finger strength controversy – some excellent posts by xvimbi)

https://www.pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,7887.msg79326.html#msg79326
(why the lifting of the 4th finger is a non-problem)
https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,7341.msg114168.html#msg114168
(repeated note-groups for difficult passages – correct technique is never uncomfortable – rotation as the solution to 5th finger weakness – criticism to misguided technical exercises – trusting the unconscious)

Just the tip of the iceberg.


Best wishes,
Bernhard.

Behold the wrath of Bernhard.

[Tash]

excellent post bernhard i'm going to add that to my list of things to do when i've gone insane, along with chopping the little webs of my fingers so i can prove that it is possible to increase the size of your hand span

speaking of equal finger strength in terms of the wonders of hanon, i have found that i play hanon 50 times better when i don't practice it at all, except in my lessons cos my teacher's a hanon nazi and is into the whole 'equal finger strength' blah, thus she'll never know i never practice them and its great!

[stringoverstrung]

my teacher's a hanon nazi

haha good one 

[Bob]

What does "better developed" mean?

I would guess "able to use with more control." 

I know the feeling.  Play piece after piece, but things don't change with that control.

I made my own exercises up.  Boring, but effective.  And right on the next step up in terms of challenge -- as opposed to something in a piece of music that is impossibly difficult at the moment or the right area but too easy.


You want more control?  Use those fingers -- anything that uses them will develop them.  Tapping on a table for example.  Tapping while driving works well. 

Another issue though is "exercises."  It might be possible to get the same results using an actual piece of music.  That kills two birds with one stone -- develops technique and you learn literature.  But... that also splits your goal and you may not develop the fingers as effeciently.