how to identify intervals by ear, and how to teach this skill?

[baadshah]

this skill is more related to general music theory, but is certainly useful if not essential for advanced pianists too, in order to read, "hear" and practise a score away from the piano. I wanted to know how you would go about teaching it.

I sometimes play the accompanment for a singer friend in her thirties with a great voice but she is relatively weak in the theory side. a particular problem is how to pitch intervals when sightreading. for example, if the melody goes from a G to a D#, she may not hit the right note!! I myself had music training from the age of 5, so this sort of thing is second nature, but what techniques are there to teach this?

I think when dealing with the more awkward intervals (diminshed 5ths, minor ninths to major sixths etc), i tend to break the intervals down into simpler intervals like octaves, perfect fifths, major thirds, and then add on or subtract a semitone or two in order to reach the required note. this only takes a split second, and as im not a singer, and so in no rush, this technique suffices for me. however, Is this a good technique to teach her or will it confuse her even more?!! what other approach can we use?

any advice or experience would be welcome.thanks

[allthumbs]

Greetings

One good way is to use the first two notes of familiar melodies to help identify the interval.



For example

'Happy Birthday' - Major 2nd (2nd and 3rd notes actually)

'Saint's Go Marching In' - Major 3rd

'O Canada' - minor 3rd

'Here Comes the Bride' - Perfect 4th

'Maria' (from West Side Story) - aug 4th

Star Wars - Perfect 5th

Chopin's 'Nocturne in Eb major' - Major 6th

'Over the Rainbow' - Perfect octave etc

I can't think of songs for the other intervals at the moment.

Anyone else?


Cheers

allthumbs

[whynot]

I tend to agree with the original poster as far as keeping a very straightforward "reference" interval in mind, and just slightly altering it for awkward jumps.  I would go one step further (farther?) and say that I believe the most accurate and efficient reading to be not by interval at all, but rather thinking/feeling within the system of the song's scale.  You can show the singer how to figure out what key she's in and find the line or space of #1 or "do" in that key in her range-- it only takes 5 minutes to explain basic note names and key signatures.  Show her the main chord notes in that key (do, mi, sol), then show her how to read with reference to these, as you were intending with the intervals.  It works similarly, but the singer will read more accurately because she will have a strong underlying harmonic sense as a guide.  I mean, good singers already have this sense very strongly.  So when they learn how to reconcile the sound of the tonic chord with trying to read the melody, they really understand it.  I have my students refer to tonic chords on piano all the time.  Whenever they seem disoriented, I ask them to write in the "one" chord of the piece right before the place where they get stuck.  It's like finding north on the compass.  Not that I know how to do that. 

[timothy42b]

I sometimes play the accompanment for a singer friend in her thirties with a great voice but she is relatively weak in the theory side. a particular problem is how to pitch intervals when sightreading. for example, if the melody goes from a G to a D#, she may not hit the right note!! I myself had music training from the age of 5, so this sort of thing is second nature, but what techniques are there to teach this?

any advice or experience would be welcome.thanks

I have noticed the same thing with singers, yet there are many who do this amazingly well.  (I myself will sometimes miss the G to D# interval, but never the G to Eb!  Fifths are hard for most singers, and I almost never hit a tritone confidently.) 

Having been around church choirs most of my life, I am pessimistic about the chances because of the age.  Your singer is in her 30's.  I haven't seen anyone this old improve significantly even when they are aware of their deficit, and never for counting.  The kids in the youth choirs can make rapid improvement, and some variation on solfege (not using the syllables, but using the principles) seems to help.  You started at age 5, and that is key to why you can do it naturally.  I think, without being able to offer evidence, that up to about age 15 this can be learned almost by osmosis, but after that requires dedicated work.  And still may not happen.  Lesson: start your kids early. 

One thing that has helped a small amount:  Most vocal works will have an introduction in the accompaniment, and during the introduction singers consider themselves on coffee break, waiting for the whistle to blow.  During the introduction they should be listening hard for two things:  tempo and tonality.  If they absorb the speed and the key center during that time it helps some people.  You've got to test them a few times to get them paying attention:  stop halfway through the intro, and make them count the beat out loud, and sing the tonic. 

[whynot]

QUOTE:  "Most vocal works will have an introduction in the accompaniment, and during the introduction singers consider themselves on coffee break, waiting for the whistle to blow.  During the introduction they should be listening hard for two things:  tempo and tonality."

Excellent!!  Well said.