Determining "Key" of a band instrument

[alzado]

My piano teacher and I had a talk about how the "key" of a band type instrument is determined.

E.g., if I remember right, there's a B-Flat and an E-flat clarinet.

I guessed that it is the key used if no keys or valves are used -- just the natural notes built into the instrument.

For instance, a trumpet  -- like an un-valved bugle -- will blow a series of notes without touching a valve.

Is that the basis of assigning a key to a particular instrument?

[abell88]

I don't know the whole answer, I suspect, but since no one else has replied I will tell you the part I do know.

Non-C instruments are transposing instruments, which is to say, they don't play the note that's written. For B-flat instruments, when they play the note that is written as a C, the sound that is produced is a B-flat.  For E-flat instruments, they produce an E-flat (sound) when playing a C (written).

My understanding (which may be wrong) is that this is basically a matter of avoiding excess use of leger lines when playing their lower/higher notes. (Incidentally, the viola avoids this by using a different clef from pretty well anyone else -- the alto or C clef.)

[timothy42b]

abell88 brings up a good point that I think should be clarified.

There can be a difference between the key of the instrument and the key of the sheet music.

For example, the common tenor trombone is most often pitched in Bb, meaning the fundamental note without moving the slide is Bb.  However the trombone music is usually "in C" meaning there is no transposition.  See a C, play a C.  Of course trombones in other fundamental pitches exist as well, for example both altos and basses are made in both Eb and F.  These will most commonly read C music, but often in different clefs.  Trombone music is often written in different clefs, e.g. alto for first and tenor for second, but these are nontransposing C clefs. 

The common trumpet is usually pitched in Bb, same as trombone only an octave higher, but it most commonly reads Bb music, which is transposing.  See a C, call it a C, play it open, and a Bb comes out.  So not only the instrument but the music is commonly in Bb.  And of course, you will find trumpets in other fundamental pitches, such as C, D, etc., and trumpet music in other pitches, which requires different transpositions, but the common one your kids see in band will be Bb instrument, Bb music.  (digression:  my daughter started beginning band on trumpet this year, and tried to play her assignment without me around.  She tried using the piano, then my electronic tuner, to help her find the notes, and of course got more frustrated.  When I got home she told me my tuner didn't work, and the piano might be broken too!)

Woodwinds are more complicated, because the fundamental pitch is not just the lowest note.  I know flute music is in C, nontransposing, while clarinet is in Bb, but I don't really know what makes a clarinet a Bb or an A instrument, or a bassoon, etc.   

[Bob]

The length of the instrument would determine the pitch.

The transposing instruments exist because they got passed down through tradition.  A Bb trumpet still uses the same fingering for C as an Eb trumpet would when reading Eb trumpet music.  That keeps the fingerings the same.  But it's still messy. 

I think the instrument still exist this way due to tradition and because of the tone color of the instrument and so the instrument can read most of its notes on the staff.

Don't know what key the instrument is in?  "Play a C. Sound your key."  Play a written C on that instrument and it will sound the key of the instrument.  For example,  A Bb clarinet will sound a Bb while the performer reads a written C.

[lau]

bisquick baking mix:  hope this helps with your question   


Bisquick Biscuit Baking Mix
For biscuits, pancakes, waffles, muffins, gingerbread, cookies, cakes and lots of other good things.

Master Baking Mix
9 cups sifted all-purpose flour
1/3 cup baking powder
1 tablespoon salt
2 teaspoons cream of tartar
4 tablespoons granulated sugar
2 1/2 cups nonfat dry milk solids
2 cups shortening (which does not
    require refrigeration)

Sift together flour, baking powder, salt, cream of tartar and sugar three times. Add dry milk. Mix well. Cut in shortening with pastry blender or two knives until mixture looks like cornmeal. Store in covered container at room temperature.

NOTE: To measure the Master Baking Mix, pile it lightly into cup and level off with a table knife.

Biscuits
Preheat oven to 450 degrees F. Combine 1 1/2 cups Master Baking Mix and 1/3 cup milk in a bowl. Add milk all at once, stirring 25 strokes. Knead lightly on floured board. Roll 1/2-inch thick; cut and place on ungreased baking sheet. Bake 10 minutes. Makes 8.

Options: Add grated cheese, chopped herbs. Increase milk to 1/2 cup for drop biscuits. Use as a topping on casseroles, cobblers or meat and vegetable pies.

Muffins
Preheat oven to 425 degrees F. Beat together in a bowl 1 egg, 1 cup milk and 2 tablespoons sugar. Add 3 cups Master Baking Mix. Stir just until dry ingredients are moistened. Spoon into greased muffin pans and bake 20 minutes.

Options: Add drained fruit, chopped nuts or chopped dried fruit. Replace 1/3 cup of Master Baking Mix called for with quick-cooking oatmeal or All-Bran® cereal. Add chopped dried fruit and nuts to recipe and bake as a fruit bread in a greased 8 x 5-inch loaf pan. Bake 40 minutes at 350 degrees F.

Pancakes or Waffles
Beat together 1 cup milk and 1 egg. Stir in 1 1/2 cups Master Baking Mix. Bake on hot griddle or waffle iron. For lighter waffles, separate egg; add yolk with milk. Beat egg white until stiff, and fold into batter just before baking. Increase milk for thinner batter, if desired.

Cornbread
Preheat oven to 400 degrees F. Stir together 1 1/2 cups Master Baking Mix, 1/2 teaspoon salt, 1 teaspoon chili powder (optional), 2 tablespoons sugar and 3/4 cup cornmeal. Combine in a separate bowl 1 egg, 1 cup cream-style corn and 3/4 cup milk. Stir liquids into dry ingredients just until flour is all moistened; pour into greased 9-inch square pan and bake 20 to 25 minutes.

Options: Add 1/4 cup chopped green pepper. For crunchy topping, sprinkle on 1/2 cup grated cheese and 2 tablespoons sesame seed before baking.

Dumplings
Add 1/3 cup water to 1 cup Master Baking Mix and mix until smooth. Drop into hot meat stock and cook 10 minutes, uncovered, and 10 minutes, covered.

Yellow Cake
Sift together in a large bowl 3 cups Master Baking Mix and 1 1/4 cups sugar. Mix together in a small bowl 2 slightly beaten eggs, 1 cup water and 1 teaspoon vanilla extract. Add 2/3 of liquid to dry ingredients. Beat at high speed for 2 minutes. Add remaining liquid and beat 2 minutes longer. Grease a 9-inch square pan. Bake at 350 degrees F for 25 minutes. Frost or sprinkle confectioners' sugar over the top.

Chocolate Cake
Sift together in a large bowl 3 cups Master Baking Mix, 1 1/2 cups sugar and 1/2 cup cocoa powder. Mix together in a small bowl 2 slightly beaten eggs, 1 cup water and 1 teaspoon vanilla extract. Add 2/3 of liquid to dry ingredients. Beat at high speed for 2 minutes. Add remaining liquid and beat 2 minutes longer. Grease a 9-inch square pan. Bake at 350 degrees F for 25 minutes. Frost or sprinkle with confectioners' sugar.

Coffee Cake
Preheat oven to 375 degrees F. Beat together in a bowl 1/3 cup milk and 1 egg. Add 1/4 cup sugar and 2 1/4 cups Master Baking Mix. Stir until well blended, about one minute. Pour into a greased 8-inch square baking pan. Combine 1/2 cup brown sugar, 1/2 teaspoon cinnamon, 3 tablespoons margarine and 1/4 cup chopped nuts and sprinkle over the top. Bake 25 minutes. Serve warm.

Pineapple Upside-Down Cake
Preheat oven to 350 degrees F. Melt 2 tablespoons margarine in a baking pan. Add 1/2 cup brown sugar to margarine; store and spread. Place 2 cups canned, drained pineapple on top of brown sugar and margarine. Stir 2 cups Master Baking Mix and 1/2 cup sugar together in a bowl. Add 1 egg and 1 cup water to mixture and beat. Pour into pan and spread over fruit. Bake 1 hour. Remove from pan; cut into pieces. Serve upside down; fruit will be on top.

Oatmeal Cookies
Place 2 1/4 cups Master Baking Mix in a bowl. Stir in 1 3/4 cups brown sugar and 1 teaspoon cinnamon. Combine 1/3 cup milk, 2 beaten eggs and 1/2 cup melted shortening. Stir into mix and blend well. Add 3 cups oatmeal and mix. Drop by rounded teaspoonfuls onto baking sheet. Bake at 375 degrees F for about 12 minutes.

Peanut Butter Cookies
Stir 1 1/3 cups sugar, 2 beaten eggs and 1 cup peanut butter into 3 1/2 cups Master Baking Mix until well blended. Use fingers to aid in blending. Roll dough into balls; place on baking sheets and flatten by making crisscross designs with a fork on the tops of the cookies. Bake at 375 degrees F for about 10 minutes.

Sunday Bread
Combine 2 cups Master Baking Mix, 1 cup oatmeal, 3/4 cup sugar, 1 teaspoon baking powder, 1/4 teaspoon salt and 1/2 cup raisins. Beat 1 egg and 1 1/4 cups milk together. Add to dry mixture and beat hard for 30 seconds. Pour into a greased, 1 1/2-quart casserole. Bake at 325 degrees F for 1 hour and 10 minutes. Turn out onto rack to cool. When cool, wrap and store for a day for best slicing.

Onion-Cheese Bread
Preheat oven to 400 degrees F. Combine in a mixing bowl 2 cups Master Baking Mix, 1/2 cup cold water and 1 tablespoon minced onion. Blend in 3/4 cup shredded sharp cheese. Spread dough in well-greased 9-inch pie pan. Spread with 1 tablespoon soft butter and sprinkle with 1 teaspoon poppy seed. Bake for 18 to 20 minutes until light brown; cut in wedges to serve.

Banana Bread
Beat 2 eggs and 1/4 cup sugar together in a bowl until well blended. Mix in 1/2 teaspoon baking soda and 1 1/4 cups (about 3) mashed bananas. Stir in 2 1/2 cups Master Baking Mix until all dry ingredients are coated. Pour into a greased 9 x 5-inch loaf pan. Bake at 350 degrees F for 45 to 55 minutes or until brown.

Zucchini Bread
Beat 2 eggs and 1/2 cup brown sugar together in a bowl until well blended. Mix in 1/2 teaspoon baking soda, 1 1/4 teaspoons cinnamon, 1 teaspoon vanilla extract, 1 1/2 cups shredded zucchini (with skins on) and 1/4 cup water. Add 2 1/2 cups Master Baking Mix and stir until dry ingredients are coated. Fold in 1/4 cup chopped nuts and 1/4 cup raisins, if desired. Bake at 350 degrees F for 45 to 55 minutes or until brown.

Pumpkin Loaf
Preheat oven to 350 degrees F. Grease a 9 x 5-inch loaf pan. Beat 3 cups Master Baking Mix, 1 cup sugar, 1 egg, 1 (16 ounce) can pumpkin, 1 teaspoon pumpkin pie spice, 1/2 teaspoon ground cloves and 1/2 teaspoon ground nutmeg in a large mixer bowl on low speed, scraping bowl constantly, for 30 seconds. Beat on medium speed, scraping bowl occasionally, for 4 minutes. Stir in nuts, if desired. Pour into loaf pan. Bake until a wooden pick inserted in center comes out clean, about 1 hour and 10 minutes. Cool 10 minutes; remove from pan. If desired, cool completely and spread with Browned Butter Glaze.

Browned Butter Glaze
Heat 1/4 cup butter in a saucepan over medium heat until delicately browned; remove from heat. Mix in 1 cup confectioners' sugar. Stir in 2 to 4 tablespoons hot water, 1 tablespoon at a time, until of desired consistency. Spread over completely cooled Pumpkin Loaf.

Cherry Cobbler
(Peaches or apricots may be used instead.) Mix 3/4 cup sugar and 3 tablespoons sugar in an 8-inch square baking dish. Add 2 cups pitted and drained cherries and 1 cup cherry juice. Place in a 350 degrees F oven for a few minutes until mixture starts to thicken.

Meanwhile, add 1 cup sugar to 1 1/4 cups Master Baking Mix. Add 1/2 cup water to make a thick batter. Beat until smooth and drop or spread on hot cherries. Bake at 425 degrees F until golden brown, or about 20 minutes. Serve warm with cream. Serves 6.

Pizza Crust
Add 1/2 cup water to 2 cups Master Baking Mix and form into a ball. Knead about 10 strokes and roll out 1/2-inch thick. Place in a 10-inch pan, leaving a rim around the edge. Brush the dough with oil, then spread with favorite toppings.

Shortcake
To 1 cup Master Baking Mix add 1 tablespoon sugar. Add enough water to 1 beaten egg yolk to make 1/3 cup. Add to mix to make a soft dough. Knead lightly. Roll 1/4-inch thick. Cut; place on a baking sheet. Brush with melted butter. Bake for 12 to 15 minutes at 425 degrees F. Put fruit between and on top of two biscuits. Serves 6.

Cheeseburger Bake
1 pound ground beef
3/4 cup chopped onion
1 can Cheddar cheese soup
1 cup frozen mixed vegetables (optional)
1/4 cup milk
2 cups Master Baking Mix
3/4 cup water
1 cup shredded Cheddar cheese

Preheat oven to 400 degrees F. Generously grease a 13 x 9-inch baking dish. Cook beef and onion in a skillet until beef is brown; drain. Stir in soup, vegetables and milk. Stir Master Baking Mix and water in baking dish until moistened; spread evenly. Spread beef mixture over batter; sprinkle with cheese. Bake for 30 minutes.

Italian Bake
1 pound ground beef or bulk Italian sausage
1 cup chopped tomato
3/4 cup frozen green peas
1/2 teaspoon Italian seasoning
1 cup Master Baking Mix
1 cup milk
2 eggs
1 cup shredded mozzarella cheese

Preheat oven to 400 degrees F. Grease a 9-inch pie plate. Cook ground beef until brown; drain. Stir in tomato, peas and Italian seasoning. Spread in plate. Stir baking mix, milk and eggs with fork until blended. Pour into plate. Bake for 25 minutes or until knife inserted in center comes out clean. Sprinkle with cheese. Bake 2 to 3 minutes longer or until melted. Serve with pizza sauce if desired.

Taco Bake
1 pound ground beef
1/2 cup chopped onion
1 envelope taco seasoning mix
1 (15 ounce) can tomato sauce
1 can whole kernel corn, drained (optional)
2 cups shredded Cheddar cheese
2 cups Master Baking Mix
1 cup milk
2 eggs

Preheat oven to 350 degrees F. Cook ground beef and onion until beef is brown; drain. Spoon into an ungreased 13 x 9-inch baking dish. Stir in taco seasoning mix (dry), tomato sauce and corn. Sprinkle with cheese. Stir remaining ingredients until blended. Pour over beef mixture. Bake for 35 minutes or until light golden brown. Serve with sour cream, chopped tomato and shredded lettuce, if desired. At high altitude, bake at 375 degrees F.

Saucy Chicken Casserole
3 cups cut-up cooked chicken or turkey
2 cans cream of mushroom soup
1 (16 ounce) package frozen mixed vegetables
1 teaspoon poultry seasoning
1/2 teaspoon garlic salt
2 cups Master Baking Mix
1 1/2 cups milk
1 teaspoon parsley flakes

Preheat oven to 450 degrees F. Mix chicken, soup, vegetables, poultry seasoning and garlic salt in ungreased 13 x 9-inch baking dish. Stir baking mix and milk until blended. Pour over chicken mixture. Sprinkle with parsley. Bake for 30 to 32 minutes or until crust is light golden brown. At high altitude, bake for 35 to 40 minutes.


Best Wishes,

Lau

[Bob]

Doing a lot of challening practicing lately Lau?

[perfect_pitch]

Lau - You're an idiot....   

[alzado]

Lau--

It is very hazardous to drink and bake.

Regards--

[lau]

challenging practicing? why am I an idiot? Every post I make all people say is your stupid lau, you can't say anything!

Anyway I hope this helps:   

20 pounds ground beef
12 (26 ounce) cans tomato soup
7 tablespoons brown sugar
7 tablespoons lemon juice
10 onions, chopped
14 tablespoons Worcestershire sauce
10 (32 ounce) bottles catsup
Salt, to taste
Pepper, to taste

Brown beef with onions (will fit in electric roaster). Drain off fat. Add remaining ingredients and mix well. Salt and pepper to taste. Simmer 1 hour before serving


it's good


Best Wishes,

Lau

[Bob]

What's up Lau?  Why the weird posts?  You've got some ideas, but then there's this odd stuff.  What's the deal?

[lau]

The deal? What do you mean whats the deal? Its not like i am making a comprimise with someone making a deal.

Best Wishes,

Father Beverage

[arensky]

Lau there is more to life than food! BTW I may try Taco Bake soon....