the big 3 - Bach, Beethoven, Mozart...who is greatest?

[stevie]

beethoven is my predicted winner, and my choice

[ryguillian]

Bach: Das Führer of harmony.

—Ryan

[sevencircles]

Bach. He wrote so many great works. He had a great sense for evergreen themes and his way of composing counterpoints is second to none. I find him the greatest composer I am awhare of even though he repeted himself alot.

He stole some stuff too though. Like from Buxtehude (The most underrated composer of all time) for instance.

[alessandro]

1. You can't compare Bach.

2. What's that 'drugs are good' thing in your post ? Drugs make you dependent. One has to be careful with drugs.  Drugs can relax, sharpen your senses, give you energy etc. But what do you mean with good ?  There mostly very toxic and too strong for humans.  Drugs kill not only braincells and nervous systems but can destroy lives and relations.  A very little bit drugs once in a while is human, but for a healthy life better not touch it.

Kindly

[apion]

Big 3 is erroneous -- it's actually a Big 4, and the ranking is as follows:

1. Beethoven
2. Brahms/Mozart/Bach (tie)

[spitz]

Beethoven RULES!!!!

Sure Mozart wrote a lot of pieces and was playing at the age of 3, and Bach.....was cool (sorry don't know much about Bach) but Beethoven was the best!

I mean c'mon he wrote 'Moonlight' 'Hammerklaiver' need I go on....

BEETHOVEN RULES!!!!!

[lava]

I really dont know why those composers are considered the big 3.

Personally I find Mozart very boring. If you've played one sonata, you've played them all. Bach is nice, but it is just too much of the same. I like the late piano sonatas of Beethoven. So Beethoven might be my choice of those 3.

I think other composers like Chopin, Schubert and Schumann are much greater.

[thierry13]

I really dont know why those composers are considered the big 3.

Personally I find Mozart very boring. If you've played one sonata, you've played them all. Bach is nice, but it is just too much of the same. I like the late piano sonatas of Beethoven. So Beethoven might be my choice of those 3.

I think other composers like Chopin, Schubert and Schumann are much greater.

I agree that Mozart is boring. You may like to listen better to Chopin, Schubert and Schumann, but in terms of unrelative, objective greatness, none of these, and the last two not even close to be as great as Beethoven and Bach. Mozart was of course the greatest prodigy I heard of. He sure is an amazing, and great composer. But IMO he's the poorest from your top3 choice. Anyway, what I meant to say is that your musical tastes should not be involved in who do you think is the greatest.

[lava]

well, I like romantic composers better than those from the baroque and classic period. That is about taste.

However the music of Chopin and the others i mentioned, is musically much richer and has more variation (every single piece, every single bar).

They died also very young, just like Mozart (Chopin at age 39, Schumann 46, Schubert 31), but the number of their works are also very impressive.

[bearzinthehood]

However the music of Chopin and the others i mentioned, is musically much richer and has more variation (every single piece, every single bar).

Are you kidding me?  Try comparing one bar of a Bach fugue with a bar of Chopin.  How is there any comparison in complexity and variation?

Not that complexity necessarily implies greatness.

[klavierkonzerte]

imho  bach is the greatest composer ever
his works sound fresh every time you listen to them and you'll love them more every time you listen to them personally i listen to bach works EVERY single day


i have no idea how some think mozart is boring

there are more to mozart than his piano works, which are great,  listen for his example to his violin concertos they are all amazing and way better than beethoven's violin concerto or listen to his sinfonia concertant or his quartets

beethoven on the other hand gets VERY heavey and very boaring somtimes
somtimes i think he's overapreciated.

[gouldfischer]

A guy which composes a Kreutzer sonata can never be "overapreciated".

The guy which composed Cosi Fan Tutte, the Coronation Mass, that Clarinet Concerto in A etc. called "boring"? Strange...

Anyway, I vote for Bach, based on some personnal preferences:

- if I had to go to a desert island with only one music score, I would choose The Art Of Fugue immediately - and I doubt I would ever miss civilization!

- if I could only play one piece on the piano forever, that would be the Goldberg Variations, FOR SURE.

- the only masterpiece which compares to the Matheus Passion in beauty and grandeur is Bach's Mass in B Minor! (Forget about Missa Solemnis, the German Requiem etc.)

Just my opinion, of course.

Vinicius.

[tompilk]

Are you kidding me? Try comparing one bar of a Bach fugue with a bar of Chopin. How is there any comparison in complexity and variation?

Not that complexity necessarily implies greatness.

I find that Rachmaninov is the best of all the composers, but of the classical/baroque as this thread is going along the lines of, I would say... none. They are all no good for me. I like romantic and shall stay that way, i think, but i'm open to ideas. I can't stand the boringness and simplicity of mozart... sorry

[cfortunato]

Yes, it's Ludwig.

I don't know how anyone can possibly regard Mozart -  of all people - as boring.

I must admit that Bach's stuff has never much interested me - but I assume that there must be something wrong with me for not getting it.

[jason2711]

i'm not much of a baroque fan, and i think beethoven was probably a greater piano composer (even though mozart was more prolific) in terms of pioneering and my personal preferance, so i went for ludwig.

when people say that these composers are boring they're forgetting about the style of music at the time.  There is no way mozart would have been able to write like chopin or rachmaninoff simply because nothing like that had been heard of.  In a way, mozart himself almost started the foundation of romantic music, with beethoven innovating the ideas which led to schubert, schumann, brahms and chopin.  Most, if not all, of these composers wrote great works, but beethoven is still one of the greatest musical developers, and his writing of 32 piano sonatas, most of which are masterpieces, is a great contribution to piano literature.  His concertos and symphonies are brilliant as well.

To think of how much beethoven developed music, listen to late mozart.  Now listen to the appassionata, hammerclavier and opus 111etc  The difference is astounding

[arensky]

Bach.

[rimv2]

Chopin sends all these composers to hell and makes them clean his boots when they are reincarnated

[apion]

i have no idea how some think mozart is boring

I have yet to uncover a single work of Mozart which I would call boring (Haydn, on the other hand .....).

[pseudopianist]

Bach ofcourse. I don't even like the other two. 

[arch0wl]

this topic seems like it was made for a music history essay or something

how did beethoven get so ahead of bach when almost everyone that posted in this topic voted for bach?

[dancingfingers]

Oh, come ON-- why do we have to say that one is greater than the others? Each man was a genius in his own (very unique) rite:

Bach-- profoundly spiritual
Mozart-- profoundly sublime
Beethoven-- profoundly human
All-- profoundly beautiful

That said, how could we possibly make a valid judgment? Now stop worrying and go practice 

[sevencircles]

I think most important would be a better word then the Greatest.

The most important would be the one who has brought most new and good ideas and influenced most composers.

I think Beethoven may be the winner in this respect.

[okeanos]

what about the rules of part writing? what about the mathematical precision of counterpoint? who did all that?
not mozart...
nor beethoven...

[thierry13]

I have yet to uncover a single work of Mozart which I would call boring (Haydn, on the other hand .....).

I have yet to uncover a single work of Mozart which I wouldn't call boring.

[musik_man]

I have yet to uncover a single work of Mozart which I wouldn't call boring.

Have you listened to the A major concerto K488?  Don Giovanni?  the Requiem?  Die Zauberfloete?  Do you find these boring?

[BoliverAllmon]

Bach by far.

[thierry13]

Have you listened to the A major concerto K488?  Don Giovanni?  the Requiem?  Die Zauberfloete?  Do you find these boring?

Indeed. Only the requiem is worth a listen. I same have to admit it is a wonder. For the rest....

[beethoven2]

BEETHOVEN IS AWESOME!!!! you can't get any better.

[kilini]

Hahaha. It's kinda funny to see you guys arguing about this as if there were actually an OBJECTIVE way to determine "greatness", whatever that is. Beethoven was greatest because he wrote Moonlight? (eww...) Bach was great because he did counterpoint? (he wasn't the only one to do so, btw) Mozart was great because of the Requiem? (well, can't argue with that)

Why're Bach, Beethoven, and Mozart the greatest, anyway? No one after the classical era?

Anyway, without Bach, there wouldn't BE a Beethoven, or Mozart, or Chopin etc. At least, they probably wouldn't be as great as we know them as now. Yay Bach!

[dave santino]

Without a doubt Beethoven. As someone once said, "if Bach is considered the father of music, then Beethoven is most certainly the prodigal son". Mozart I find boring, except in a few pieces, i.e. Mass in C Minor, D Minor Piano Concerto. Mostly though, he's too fiddly and trite. Bach was obviously a genius, but there's only so long I can listen to Bach without longing for a huge chord or a bit of passion and fury.

[counterpoint]

I am very sure that JS Bach is the greatest composer of all times.
His genius is not as obvious for the audience as the one of Beethoven, whose music effects are much more of psychological nature, but Bach composed extremely modern even for todays ears on respect of rhythm, harmony and motivic work. Bach had the greatest influence on all classical and romantic composers. Even many composers of the 20ieth century were strongly influenced by him.

[pianowolfi]

They are all great imo. But Beethoven did break a limit nobody else has broken. Nobody before him and nobody after him. Of course I'm talking about his op. 111. The most mysterious and most advanced musical work ever for me. A milestone of music history.

[tompilk]

I have yet to uncover a single work of Mozart which I wouldn't call boring.

lol... this true...
Tom

[mad_max2024]

They are all great in their own way.
Bach wrote a stupidly enormous amount of beautiful pieces and was undoubtedly the master of polyphony (is it written that way?) and harmony.
Mozart was a child genius who gained an impressive popularity (everybody loves mozart)
But I believe noone changed the face of music as much as Beethoven did, he completely changed the rules of the game and revolutionized music for all time, to me that is the true face of greatness...

[Waldszenen]

I find that Rachmaninov is the best of all the composers, but of the classical/baroque as this thread is going along the lines of, I would say... none. They are all no good for me. I like romantic and shall stay that way, i think, but i'm open to ideas. I can't stand the boringness and simplicity of mozart... sorry

Rachmaninoff over Mozart... 


Right.

[kelly_kelly]

Oh, come ON-- why do we have to say that one is greater than the others? Each man was a genius in his own (very unique) rite:

Bach-- profoundly spiritual
Mozart-- profoundly sublime
Beethoven-- profoundly human
All-- profoundly beautiful

That said, how could we possibly make a valid judgment? Now stop worrying and go practice 

Well said! I personally (with a few exceptions) prefer Mozart and Beethoven, but that is personal, and I cannot make an objective judgement as to their relative greatness.

[dave santino]

Rachmaninoff over Mozart... 


Right.

Must say I'd take Rachmaninoff over Mozart any day of the week, certainly from a pianistic point of view, but also from a purely musical standpoint.

[pianistimo]

must say something in defense of poor mozart.  look, he barely survived into his early thirties.  and, yet the immense talent.  and here he's pauper poor.  dancing with his wife to keep warm a few years before he died.  and he still jokes about it with the tavern people.  someone asks him why he's dancing - and he says 'to stay warm' and that he's out of firewood or something.  how does one compose in such bad conditions.  he was driven. driven to compose.

and that funny thing with the starling.  now what composer had a starling fettish like mozart.  and what composer could make da ponte's librettos turn into reality with music (operas like cosi fan tutti and the marriage of figaro).  in his time -he was not appreciated for the genius he was.  now we can appreciate it and also know how much trouble he went through - and yet he was so outward thinking.  composing pc's for specific people with specific talent in mind.  very apt to compose humor in his music.  as with the 'musical joke' where he purposely makes everything wrong in terms of compositional layout and musical ranges and whatever else. 

if i were to have a day with one of those three - i'd listen by beethoven's door, walk closer to bach,  but try to sit right next to mozart. 

[nexer]

Necro bump, Beethoven.   

[forte88]

Does anyone here listen to any music other than piano music?
For me it was a choise between Bach and Mozart, but considering the lousy taste of most of the forummembers, I knew it had to be Mozart.
Despite Bach's contribution, Mozart wrote some of the most beautiful melodies EVER

[mjames]

Lousy taste? You sure are full of yourself, aren't you.

[forte88]

Lousy taste? You sure are full of yourself, aren't you.

I'd say that of the 'connaisseurs' who consider Mozart's vast contributions to classical music, who died at  an age when Beethoven only got started, to be boring

[kakeithewolf]

If you are talking in terms of sheer proliferation, Bach.

If you talk in terms of who has a larger amount of pieces you can play and mostly anyone could recognize, that's probably a tie between Beethoven and Bach.

In terms of virtuosity (in playing skill and compositional skill), Bach.

In terms of variety, Bach.

In choral works, Bach by a mile.

In orchestration, Beethoven (though only due to the unfair advantage of more instruments at his disposal).

In terms of the length of all works combined, Bach by a mile again.

In terms of keyboard works, Bach (due to variety in part).

In terms of religious works, that's really obviously Bach.

In terms of how early they got started, Mozart.

I think that sums up my opinion well.

[stevensk]

Bach and Rachmaninoff 

[thomasshiraza]

Absolutely Bach

''Bach was the bridge to beethovens music''

[mjames]

So many competent musicians, and so many of them waste their time trying to make music a competition. "Chopin is etter, no Bach is the best, no Beethoven, no Mozart!"

Priding themselves in the accomplishments of others. Pathetic.

[pencilart3]

Between bach beethoven and mozart i would have to go with chopin.


oh sorry