Working note by note -- Is it healthy?

[Bob]

If you're learning a very challenging piece and are working note by note, pounding it into your fingers, is that good?

That takes a huge investment in time and you don't really read the piece.  The typical "three pieces in six months" piano learning.  This can't be a healthy way to practice and learn, is it?

[cfortunato]

I have found it to be very healthy.  It IS a major investment, so it should only be done with a piece you love and really WANT to play.  But when finished, you're actually a better musician.  At least, that's my experience.

[Bob]

I suppose if it's not the only thing you do.  Variety. 

I was just thinking if it's better to do that one big piece or do several "stepping stone" pieces instead and get to the same point.

[stevie]

note by note?

its pointless pounding the same note over and over, since it is the relative movements between notes that are the actual things we have to ingrain

you mean like small groups of notes?

then yeah, tis good

[dmk]

i try to work phrase by phrase rather than note by note

although at time i suppose you invariable need to work note by note where you might be moving from one fat chord to another???

cheers

dmk

[gorbee natcase]

You dont eat a whole turkey at once

[Rach3]

Irrelevant comparison. A good analogy would be... to read Anna Karenina syllable by syllable. If you really love Tolstoy, you'd spend fifteen minutes repeating each syllable mindlessly, to get it engraved in your ear. Right? No.

What you are developing is an entire musical composition, a strucuture which spans hundreds or thousands of measures, from the first to the last. We don't even think of how many measures there are... usually instead we think in terms of phrases, sections, movements, colors... Quite often a single note or motif might be crucial to this, and worth spending hours and hours to develop. Or a technique might be particularly elusive, or demanding, and hours of creative practice is needed to bring that section up to clarity.
...So there's nothing wrong at all with spending hours, or years, on a few notes in sequence. But to do this systematically, to go through repeating each note in sequence before progressing to the next one, is a complete waste of time.

[ako]

... Quite often a single note or motif might be crucial to this, and worth spending hours and hours to develop. ...So there's nothing wrong at all with spending hours, or years, on a few notes in sequence.

True.

[alzado]

This concept is unfamiliar to me, but I am not knowledgeable compared to many who post here.

I always play the entire piece.  The first time through may be very halting and slow.  If I make an obvious mistake, I will go back a measure or two -- to the beginning of the phrase -- and do it again.  But I do move through the entire piece.

I am talking about short pieces -- perhaps 2 or 3 pages of score -- playing time 5 minutes or so.

I am sure I would not enjoy it if I did not ever hear the melody -- just a couple of measures over and over and over.

But one thing we have learned from this forum is that there are many ways to go at the piano. 

[amanfang]

I think it depends on the piece and the student.  The ENTIRE piece should not need to be worked out note by note.  I will say that there are exceptions especially in contemporary works where the patterns are not what we're used to reading, or the technique is not something "already in our fingers" so to speak, and it seems impossible to read.  I do not generally use a note-by-note approach because it is not usually necessary, although I do have a particular section of a piece I'm working on, and it is almost impossible for me to read and play accurately.  So I start with one measure, play it HS several times, then put it together slowly, perhaps starting with the just the first two notes of the measure, then three notes, then four, and so on.  I suppose if you (or presumably your students) are doing this all the time on all their pieces, then either the pieces are too hard, or lots of remedial sight-reading work needs to be done.

[la_campanella]

For a new piece that I just start to practice:

I practice about 7 bars only and repeat them, till there'll be no mistakes and able to play them smoothly. This can be accomplished usually in one day only or just a few hours or less, depends on the difficulty of the piece.

After that, I will start another 7 or more bars, with the same technique.

Don't practice a piece or certain phrase till you get bored and fed up with that piece. This  is a bad habit. Try to play some other pieces and when you are "fresh" start again.

This is my way of practising though.... I'm sure you guys have other suggestions.

please do give your insight on this particular matter of course. I am pleased to hear any good suggestions that might improve my performance and practice habit(s)

[fra ungdomsdagene]

If you're learning a very challenging piece and are working note by note, pounding it into your fingers, is that good?

That takes a huge investment in time and you don't really read the piece.  The typical "three pieces in six months" piano learning.  This can't be a healthy way to practice and learn, is it?

The real question should be "what this is good for?"
Many people rule out many practice methods because they believe that everything you need to practice and master in the piece must be approached with the same method.
But I believe actually that are different methods for different needs.
Note by note? I don't think it will help you for the correct movement to play the piece up to tempo and musically. But it can be useful to memorize the piece or to be make sure you really memorized the piece and are not just relying on the muscular memory of your hands.

So before asking whether such method is good you should tell us what your goal is. What aspect of that piece you're trying to learn with this methods. Notes, movements, speed, musicality, hands coordination, accuracy, dynamics?

Fra

[princessdecadence]

I was just thinking if it's better to do that one big piece or do several "stepping stone" pieces instead and get to the same point.

I have been told quite seriously that several 'stepping stone' pieces before playing a very difficult piece is most advisable.  These stepping stone pieces need to help improve what you lack to play that difficult 'goal' piece of yours.  Play a nocturne to improve finger flexibility for example or whatever. 

I myself tend to play something completely beyond my level, start it out by playing 'note-by-note' or by phrase but I surprise myself by the end of the month.  So in a way it's probably good but it's not entirely advisable if you are truly serious about learning the piano because although you probably can play the piece by the end of the year and move up a grade or two with that, you will be lagging behind with other skills and end up playing that difficult piece in the wrong way or without that overall smoothness. 

It's fun to play a deliriously difficult piece.  I do that with my rachmaninov's but I also play other easier music and keep on building my proper repertoire without those crazy difficult pieces.  I concentrate on the pieces that are apt for my level but just when I'm feeling adventurous, I pick up my Rach sheets.

Hope that helps.

xx

[cfortunato]

As, above, I recommended what the original poster called "note by note," I thought it might be useful to explain what I meant, and what my practice method is.  On normal pieces, I prefer phrase by phrase.  But, when practicing pieces that are beyond my ability, I find it useful to practice not actually note by note, but bar by bar.  By playing a single bar - or even half a bar, or even two notes in succession - over and over until I can.   And it WORKS.  Doing this I have learned to play pieces that I had regarded as simply too difficult for me to play.  This is how I finally learned to play the end of "Gnomus" from Pictures At An Exhibition, for example.  And the feeling of "stretching" myself is almost palpable.

This also works when there is a small part of a piece that you just can't get down.  Did  you ever have the experience where you know Part A and you know Part B - but there is always some real discomfort in going from Part A TO Part B?  Well, what fixes that for me is just playing two notes over and over - the last note of Part A and the first note of Part B - until the transition is completely smooth.

[klick]

Does anybody think it would be worthwhile for say a more intermidiate pianist, like around level 6-8, to learn note by note?

Seems like kind of a waste of time to me, becuase there are not many technically challenging sections. But of cource i may be wrong. Take the Clementi 36/3 Sonatina for instance. (See the Sheet music at if you are not familiar with the piece --> https://www.sheetmusicarchive.net/compositions_b/clmson36.pdf) I found this piece for my level has alot of scale passages, and no complex passages, so going note to note in practice would be pointless. So would it be worth it for a piece like this, or a piece of a similar level, even with less scale passages?

Klick

[bearzinthehood]

Does anybody think it would be worthwhile for say a more intermidiate pianist, like around level 6-8, to learn note by note?

Seems like kind of a waste of time to me, becuase there are not many technically challenging sections. But of cource i may be wrong. Take the Clementi 36/3 Sonatina for instance. (See the Sheet music at if you are not familiar with the piece --> https://www.sheetmusicarchive.net/compositions_b/clmson36.pdf) I found this piece for my level has alot of scale passages, and no complex passages, so going note to note in practice would be pointless. So would it be worth it for a piece like this, or a piece of a similar level, even with less scale passages?

Klick

Do you mean memorizing or learning to play?  It would be foolish to memorize a scale note by note, hopefully by now you are at the point where you can recognize the scale and memorize it as such.

If you are unable to play the scale then there's no shame in practicing it note by note at whatever tempo allows you to have perfect control over the passage.  Generally with scales there are usually one or two notes that are either too weak or too strong, blurred, etc.  You can save time by breaking down the passage into smaller bits that contain just those notes.

[klick]

Do you mean memorizing or learning to play? It would be foolish to memorize a scale note by note, hopefully by now you are at the point where you can recognize the scale and memorize it as such.

If you are unable to play the scale then there's no shame in practicing it note by note at whatever tempo allows you to have perfect control over the passage. Generally with scales there are usually one or two notes that are either too weak or too strong, blurred, etc. You can save time by breaking down the passage into smaller bits that contain just those notes.

That answers my question perfectly. Thank you. Of cource i can play the scale if u were wondering tho. 

[super5james]

Its safe to say learing note by note is very healthy.Its essential for a concert pianist to learn what the composer had intened. and its important for you to have your own emphisis on what to play.
Lets take Chopin's Etude in Cminor Op.25  its dark beginning should be arpeggited corretcly and your schould have your own feelings to it. After all Chopin is a romantic so put your heart into.He did.

[pianalex]

note by note is well worth doing for passages beyond your technique, but probably not for whole pieces.  more , it's also good to play each note several times in succession quickly, because that also smooths over the all important transitions between notes.  so you can practice a passage in quavers by playing each quaver 4 then three then twice and back to one.  varying the rhythm  is good. i think the techniques suggested by alfred cortot provide loads of such invaluable ideas.  keep playing pieces that are a little below  your current skills alongside the harder ones.IMHO