une barque sur la ocean

[ravel]

ok guys , i was wondering, i saw this note in the score  for this piece which was supposed to be the g# to the left of the leftmost note(i.e. the leftmost A )on the piano. hows that possible??? i checked so many times?? is the score wrong or what??? or are there special pianos which have those...?

[debussy symbolism]

Greetings.

Wait a minute. You composed it dear Ravel you should know . Anyways, I can't help you on this piece because I haven't played it. I love this piece and want to play it someday. I am sure that someone will elucidate your situation.

[debussy symbolism]

I think I know what you are refering to. I know that I heard somewhere about the note you are refering to. I think the score is correct and there are pianos that have a lower octave so that the note is playable. I am not sure where I heard about the note, but pretty sure it's right. Maybe I'm right so do look for more information.




Glad to help.

[lostinidlewonder]

I play it but I think I've missed those notes. Which bar???

[pita bread]

Is the G# a 16th note preceded by an A 16th note? The A is marked to be an octave lower than written (so it would be the lowest note on the keyboard) but the marking is lifted before the G#. (I have the Eschig/Durand score)

[Nordlys]

It is the place with a tremolo on a G# minor chord, right? Also in my edition is written A, then G# an octave higher.

I find this very interesting, because the bass note should obviously be a G# (ideally), because the harmony is a simple G# minor chord. But Ravel uses the lowest A, knowing that in the context it will be heard as a bass note for the G# chord. It is in such a low register that it is not possible for the listener to hear that it is actually a wrong note.

There is a similar place in "Jeux d'eau", also an A substituting a G#.

There exists pianos with an extended range, where it would be possible to play the G#. Maybe in some editions the low G# is actually written, although on normal pianos it is not possible to play?

[ramseytheii]

ok guys , i was wondering, i saw this note in the score  for this piece which was supposed to be the g# to the left of the leftmost note(i.e. the leftmost A )on the piano. hows that possible??? i checked so many times?? is the score wrong or what??? or are there special pianos which have those...?

Ravel used the Boesendorfer pianos, which have extra notes going down to the C I believe below the usual lowest A.  And why not?
I like this piece, which begins Une barque sur l'ocean, and ends, L'ocean sur la Barque

Walter Ramsey

[mikey6]

hmm, then why did he substitue a g for an a in the last chord of the gmaj concerto? was he writing for a normal piano or did he want that disonance? the same thing in Jeux d'eau, he puts a low a under a g#.

[ravel]

Hi guys,
sorry for the late reply
. I do realise that  ravel uses A in place of g sharp many times because at that low pitch its not possible to differentiate between the two notes.  and yes i know it happens in jeux d'eau right after the glissando and a couple of more times.
In this piece however, une barque sur la ocean , ther is a g sharp note below the lowest A. however it is not  at the place most of you are thinking

Is the G# a 16th note preceded by an A 16th note? The A is marked to be an octave lower than written (so it would be the lowest note on the keyboard) but the marking is lifted before the G#. (I have the Eschig/Durand score)

 
I know which place you are talking about.  I do realise the marking has been lifted before the g sharp .

It is the place with a tremolo on a G# minor chord, right? Also in my edition is written A, then G# an octave higher.

I find this very interesting, because the bass note should obviously be a G# (ideally), because the harmony is a simple G# minor chord. But Ravel uses the lowest A, knowing that in the context it will be heard as a bass note for the G# chord. It is in such a low register that it is not possible for the listener to hear that it is actually a wrong note.

There is a similar place in "Jeux d'eau", also an A substituting a G#.

There exists pianos with an extended range, where it would be possible to play the G#. Maybe in some editions the low G# is actually written, although on normal pianos it is not possible to play?

  Again you are referring to the same place which is bar no.39 i believe ( unless i counted wrong) . That is fine.
the place i am talking about is the bass note right before the glissando in  bar no.44 i think.. in there there is a g sharp below the lowest A followed by a g sharp an octave higher and another g sharp an octave higher than the previous.
I d like you guys to check that bar and tell me whats going on?
 and if it really is a g sharp , then i dont understand why would he substitue an A for a g sharp at some places and not here?

[ravel]

Doe

hmm, then why did he substitue a g for an a in the last chord of the gmaj concerto? was he writing for a normal piano or did he want that disonance? the same thing in Jeux d'eau, he puts a low a under a g#.

Didnt know that happens in the g major concerto as well.
i guess its really common in ravels music to do such things . he just enjoys giving surprises maybe hehe.

[Nordlys]

the place i am talking about is the bass note right before the glissando in bar no.44 i think.. in there there is a g sharp below the lowest A followed by a g sharp an octave higher and another g sharp an octave higher than the previous.
I d like you guys to check that bar and tell me whats going on?
 and if it really is a g sharp , then i dont understand why would he substitue an A for a g sharp at some places and not here?

You are right, I didn't notice this. It is strange, when he did write an A earlier, which should abviously have been a G#.
So what are you going to do? Tune the A string down half a tone? 

[pita bread]

Well, Durand editions of Ravel are known to have typos in Gaspard de la Nuit, Piano Concerto in G Mvt. III, and Miroirs. Perhaps you can consult an edited edition for possible corrections- I have found the Bricard (sp?) edition published under Alfred Masterworks to be useful in proofing Ravel scores.

[ravel]

You are right, I didn't notice this. It is strange, when he did write an A earlier, which should abviously have been a G#.
So what are you going to do? Tune the A string down half a tone?

well , since i have a digital piano , i can just tune it down  a semitone  by pressing one button . haha.

[mikey6]

I have found the Bricard (sp?) edition published under Alfred Masterworks to be useful in proofing Ravel scores.

I've got 'le tombeau' of hers and it's the msot annoying thing i've ever read.  Besides adding pedal markings which is pointless especially for someone like Ravel, she adjusts his tempos markings and re arranges his splitting IN THE SCORE! she adds his original at the bottom in the notes.  Maybe for amateurs tis ok, but I don't find it particularly helpful except for the background notes at the start.

[pita bread]

That's not what I suggested you use it for though. There are errors in the Miroirs score (i.e.  the rhythm after the climax in Osieaux Tristes) and I look in the Alfred Editions to proof against these errors. If you can play Ravel you probably don't need to mind an editor's pedal markings.

[rubinsteinmad]

I like this piece, which begins Une barque sur l'ocean, and ends, L'ocean sur la Barque

[michael_sayers]

Ravel used the Boesendorfer pianos, which have extra notes going down to the C I believe below the usual lowest A.  And why not?
I like this piece, which begins Une barque sur l'ocean, and ends, L'ocean sur la Barque

Walter Ramsey

They should be called "Busoni Bösendorfers" as Busoni was the one who motivated the additional bass pitches.


Mvh,
Michael