re:Slow playing. Raised fingers GEORGE KOCHEVITSKY

[PaulNaud]

Dear Marik,

First of all, thank you for replying so fast.

Secondly, have you read my other post about George Kochevitsky? If you haven't done it please read it here:
                   George Kochevitsky: "...while practicing fingers should be raised to obtain the most distinct sensations from their action, but only as much as needed for this purpose. As a rule, the first joint of the finger should never be raised higher than the back of the palm: higher raising would cause overstrain of the muscles concerned. What is important is strong, active finger work, since we receive much weaker sensations from weak movements than from strong ones. A slight pressure into the key after its full depression is recommended in slow practicing. Tactile sensations as well sensations from finger muscle contractions will be strengthened in this way."

I don't know if he is contradicting himself, but 2 paragraphs further he tells us this: " Therefore, among several varieties of practice for finger articulation, the following is the best: first, fingers are prepared on the keys to be pressed. Each finger then presses with a light downward movement only,never leaving its key. (Thus the size of finger movement is equal to the depth of the key.) And playing proceedes very slowly, pianissimo, with the whole attention concentrated on the fingertips. The downward movement of one finger must be synchronized with the movement of the preceeding finger as it lets its key rise. At the lightest sensation of fatigue in the upper parts of the arm, this practice should be stopped."

Is this the Neuhaus system? Thesis-Antithesis-Synthesis.


Thirdly, may I introduce myself?
I am 51 years old. I started playing the piano at the age of 14. At the age of 16, I changed my piano teacher and I studied with a Rumanian-born pianist in Montreal (Canada) for four years. (His name is Mircea Manole, he was a student of Florica Musicescu, Dinu lipatti's teacher in Bucarest).

The approach was the so-called weight technique. My teacher would often quote the Leimer-Gieseking method and sometimes Heinrich Neuhaus. I would start studying a piece by working the length of about one page of music. I would learn each hand separate (by heart). I would first play very slowly (I insist), raising as much as I could my fingers, watching each sound very carefully by using the weight of the arm, always preparing the next finger to play and then, I would put together both hands and work the same way. The next step was a new way of practicing. I would play a little bit faster (but still slow), this time my fingers very close to the keys ( not admitting a cigarette paper between my fingers and the keys, like prof. Neuhaus said in his book the Art of Piano Playing). And then I would accelerate little by little, sometimes going back to first steps.

My teacher always insisted on finger action and arm weight and also on the control of sound and the beauty of sound.

I went back to France because part of my family live over there and I met a well-known piano teacher at the Conservatoire de Marseille, prof. Pierre Barbizet. But I could not follow any of the new teachers I met. Their approach was so different and I thought that my Rumanian piano teacher was the best.

So I went back to Montreal but my former teacher could not teach me any more. So I searched for other teachers for 2 or 3 years without success.

I decided to continue playing the piano by my self after discovering a book called Guided Sight-Reading by Leonard Deutsch. His method: sight-read for pleasure, don't look at your keys, guide your hands with your ears and watch the sound you're producing. Play a piece of music as a whole. I did so for 20 years.

I tried all sorts of approaches while sight-reading.

Two years ago I read on the web a very interesting text by Stefan Kutrzeba: " The Chopin Neuhaus system" . He is talking about the "zone". It is very similar to what you wrote to me in your reply.

After exchanging some ideas with Stefan Kutrzeba, I decided last year to register at the music Faculty of the Université du Québec (I already have a bachelor of music). I was accepted after an audition. I am now studying with Henri Brassard. He is helping me to overcome some technical difficulties (He said to me it's all psychological), but I don't always agree with him. Especially when he gives me an exercice that I should practice 20 minutes every day: Hand almost flat, it should be over the keyboard at about 5 cm height, and then strike the key with only the weight of each finger. Scale is done in the same way with the thumb-over technique, I don't know if you heard about this technique.

MY QUESTIONS:
1) My problem is speed. I can't play fast. I can control the sound, beautiful sound but I can't reach the desired tempo.

2) In prof. Neuhaus book "The Art of Piano Playing" he talks about very active fingers as a way of practicing to build fingers muscles!!! opposed to the other very close key approach. Should we raise fingers when practicing?

3) May be that this whole idea that certain movements or positions of hands or arms will produce beautiful sounds is wrong. That's what I should start to understand.

Thank you for reading this very long post and if you have additionnal thoughts don't hesitate to send them to me.

Paul

[pianistimo]

i know you addressed this question to marik, so i will be just a short interlude here.  my teacher at west chester also plays with very flat hands.  the end justifies the means, to me, in this matter.  he plays with so much in his 'pallette' of sounds.  i didn't realize that you could get a very loud, very soft, very fast, very smooth sounds out of the piano with such little effort.  you are really saving yourself from tendonitis to learn what you are now.  so much finger action slows you down, too.  that's why you're learning a new way.  to play faster, smoother, and without much effort.  i'm kind of a casual learner and never bothered to write down the lessons - but did tape them once or twice.  now, i see, that for the money you are spending - right after the lesson - write down EVERYTHING he says.  everything!  it all adds up. 

[PaulNaud]

Thanks for your comments pianistimo !!!!
Paul

[nomis]

There is no need to raise the fingers. You must know that in piano playing, the way to produce sound is the make the key go down, not up. So by raising your fingers, you are merely making unnecessary movements, resulting in expenditure of energy that could be used for other purposes. This method of raising your fingers then placing them very close is very confusing and I would be very confused if I were taught in such a way.

The Leimer-Gieseking method advocates what is called "pressure" technique, which basically means that the fingers are not raised before playing a note. As I've mentioned above, such a technique only wastes energy.

By raising the hand 5cm above the keyboard before every note, it would take much longer to play the note than if the finger was already on the note itself. I aim to keep my fingers in contact with the keys as much as possible i.e. the muscles in my forearms are as relaxed as they can be in the neutral playing position. Actually, the whole body should be as relaxed as possible. But total relaxation only occurs when one is lying down on the floor (or if you're dead, he he :p).

As for using weight only, I have yet to try this out, but the piano key can be activated by gravity and/or muscular force. I probably use both, but I have not observed this yet.

[PaulNaud]

Thanks for your clear explanation nomis!!!
Paul