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Debussy Arabesque #1 - a few weeks later!!! (practice practice practice) (Read 6746 times)

Offline violinist

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Okay guys and gals, bear with me.  I'm posting this again because for the most part, I was disappointed with my previous posting of this piece.  It is now about 1 month later.  All memorized.  My finger facility is improved and I'm a lot happier with this "recording."

Perhaps you can make comparisons to my previous postings of this piece.  I'm actually going to play this in a masterclass coming up.

Still no real lessons, but a lot of chatting with all you wonderful people on the piano forum/street.  That being said, okay now rip this playing apart.   I'm getting closer to committing to lessons soon.

This is the second posting of this piece played by me on my Steinway B.  And Recorded on my really hard to use PS04 Zoom walkman recorder.
Practice!

piano sheet music of Arabesque


Offline pianote

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Re: Debussy Arabesque #1 - a few weeks later!!! (practice practice practice)
«Reply #1 on: November 09, 2005, 05:50:36 AM »
It's good.

Suggestions that I have...

Try some ritardandos.
Don't try to get caught up trying to play too fast; it begins to sound mechanical.
Savor the melodies...try to make it more "romantic" sounding.

Good job thus far  :)




Offline zheer

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Re: Debussy Arabesque #1 - a few weeks later!!! (practice practice practice)
«Reply #2 on: November 09, 2005, 08:14:52 AM »
Look why dont you just stick to playing the violin ( only joking ).
For a start you play it almost as fast as  Philipe Entremont, thats very fast and its your chice. Someone said you should play it in a romantic style, well thats wrong because Debussy was an impressionist not a romantic like Chopin, however He/She also mensioned adding retardando , i agree but thats something you will learn in you master class. Overall i think you have improved it sounds great, but try to play the last few chords ppp, also dont race to the finishing line hold back a little imagin an eroplain landing, think haw it slowly touches ground then holds back before it stops. Sounds great all the best.
" Nothing ends nicely, that's why it ends" - Tom Cruise -

Offline violinist

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Re: Debussy Arabesque #1 - a few weeks later!!! (practice practice practice)
«Reply #3 on: November 09, 2005, 03:59:52 PM »
Thanks zheer and pianote.  I love the comments.  I've already started working on it slower.  I didn't realize I was playing it so fast.  I think it's a by-product of having practiced the same piece over and over.  I was actually trying to slow it down a bit for the recording (imagine how fast I've practiced it).  But now I'm practicing it even slower and working on finger control.  I love the comment about the airplane landing, holding back before it stops and playing the last few chords ppp.  I gotta really work on the retardando thing.  I just don't want to get ripped to shreds on the masterclass, esp. since I've never done a masterclass in piano before.

Thanks again!!!  and Thanks in advance for any more comments and suggestions.  I really want to improve on the piano.  Stick to the violin? no way.  there's gotta be hope for me.
Practice!

Offline vanfanel

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Re: Debussy Arabesque #1 - a few weeks later!!! (practice practice practice)
«Reply #4 on: November 09, 2005, 09:49:40 PM »
very nice recording.  I've been learning this as well.  The only thing I suggest but maybe it's more of a personal preference is that the bass notes in measures 7 and 9 (similarly throughout the piece) sound a bit too loud.

nice work :)

Offline kelly_kelly

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Re: Debussy Arabesque #1 - a few weeks later!!! (practice practice practice)
«Reply #5 on: November 09, 2005, 10:54:49 PM »
I agree with the need for ritardandos. It sounds, in my opinion, too metronomical. Of course, when I play it, the speed changes drastically (WAY too much, but my former teacher was an idiot; she didn't tell me to correct it) so my opinion may not be qualified. Overall, however, I think it sounds good.
It all happens on Discworld, where greed and ignorance influence human behavior... and perfectly ordinary people occasionally act like raving idiots.

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Offline g_s_223

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Re: Debussy Arabesque #1 - a few weeks later!!! (practice practice practice)
«Reply #6 on: November 10, 2005, 01:16:03 AM »
Hey, a really creditable effort. Just a few impressions:
- You have a nice-sounding piano, don't let any note escape controlled attention, this will be easier at a slower tempo
- There are some interesting modulations about 1/2 way through, really savour them and make them moments of contrast, surprise and delight, don't just play through them
- Debussy was a sensualist: think warmth, sonorousness, deep touch, caresses...
- Listen to Michaelangeli and learn!
 :D

Offline violinist

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Re: Debussy Arabesque #1 - a few weeks later!!! (practice practice practice)
«Reply #7 on: November 10, 2005, 02:47:43 AM »
Hey, a really creditable effort. Just a few impressions:
- You have a nice-sounding piano, don't let any note escape controlled attention, this will be easier at a slower tempo
- There are some interesting modulations about 1/2 way through, really savour them and make them moments of contrast, surprise and delight, don't just play through them
- Debussy was a sensualist: think warmth, sonorousness, deep touch, caresses...
- Listen to Michaelangeli and learn!
 :D

Thanks thanks thanks to all the comments so far.  Much appreciated and I'm reading them all!

The modulations - I think you're talking about the "slower section with chords." - will savour them!
I gotta work on that slower tempo!

And tell me more about Michaelangeli and what makes him so special?  I got a DVD of Michaelangeli from Netflix - I'll be not only listening, but also watching..



Thanks for the tips!
Practice!

Offline virtuoso_735

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Re: Debussy Arabesque #1 - a few weeks later!!! (practice practice practice)
«Reply #8 on: November 11, 2005, 04:50:43 AM »
Not bad at all. :)

I have a few suggestions that shouldn't really be taken seriously since I haven't played this piece before. Anyways, your playing technically sounds quite sound and there are only a few wrong notes once in a while, so that is okay. However, you could make the music "breath" more. Like in Mozart, the end of each phrase, there is a resolution, like softening down a bit at each phrase in a breath. You could do the same with each phrase in this piece. At the end of each phrase, you could soften it down a bit. I think that might give the piece a bit more character.

Also, like mentioned before, you did rush through some parts of the piece. I especially noticed in the middle section with a few of the chords, they were played quite harshly.

Overall, your playing was very enjoyable! :)

btw, your Steinway model B sounds a bit brighter than some others that I've heard. Each Steinway has a very different character, so I guess that's very expected.




Offline violinist

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Re: Debussy Arabesque #1 - a few weeks later!!! (practice practice practice)
«Reply #9 on: November 11, 2005, 08:12:54 AM »
Virtuoso!

Thanks for your thoughts.  I really really appreciate them. Especially me being teacherless (by choice at this time).

About the steinway B being bright, it doesn't sound that bright live..  must be my tinny microphone?  But it is on the brighter side of the steinways.  I like it that way, otherwise it sounds dull to me.  Overall I'm very happy with my piano. 

You are super qualified to make all those great comments.

I wonder if people would be interested to know about my masterclass. 

I've taken the speed down a lot now.  I've practiced this piece for a little over an hour today, just listening to the sounds, listening to the chords, and taking my time, and breathing between phrases.  The piece is now quite different in my hands.  Hopefully I didn't go too far the other direction.  Watch, that masterclass guy will tell me that I play it to slow and it sounds dead and people are bored, etc , etc, etc.  Finding the balance is key!
Practice!

Offline zheer

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Re: Debussy Arabesque #1 - a few weeks later!!! (practice practice practice)
«Reply #10 on: November 11, 2005, 08:26:48 AM »
Dont worry Violinist i playd this song to my teacher yesterday and she said she didnt like something about it, after some thought she said it was not Debussy enough?
" Nothing ends nicely, that's why it ends" - Tom Cruise -

Offline violinist

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Re: Debussy Arabesque #1 - a few weeks later!!! (practice practice practice)
«Reply #11 on: November 11, 2005, 08:45:31 AM »
Dont worry Violinist i playd this song to my teacher yesterday and she said she didnt like something about it, after some thought she said it was not Debussy enough?

Zheer,

I need to learn about what it means to play "Debussy" on the piano.  This... I need a teacher to explain this too me.  Unless you could explain it to me in 3 sentences or less!  (yeah right!). 

So you mean you played my recording for your teacher or you played the piece on your piano yourself for your teacher?  I'm assuming you meant that you played the piece on your piano.

Thanks for talking to me about this piece.  It has been so educational!  I love it!
Practice!

Offline zheer

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Re: Debussy Arabesque #1 - a few weeks later!!! (practice practice practice)
«Reply #12 on: November 11, 2005, 09:38:18 AM »
Hi violinist , no i playd this song on her piano at her flat. She said that it does not flow from one section into another, as you know this is his earlly compositions , hence it is in sectiond like Beethoven i gess. Later composions by debussy is harder to find sections it tends to be like a painting from that time. Secondy she found that the opening arppegios require no dynamics , but rather to create the feeling of rising and falling with only the notes. I am now trying to think of an impressionist painting i can use to help me creat the illusion of continuation.
" Nothing ends nicely, that's why it ends" - Tom Cruise -

Offline violinist

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Re: Debussy Arabesque #1 - a few weeks later!!! (practice practice practice)
«Reply #13 on: November 12, 2005, 12:06:17 AM »
In my quest to find debussy style:  I've found a website that talks about it and another website that talks about the arabesque #1.


http://homepage.mac.com/stevepur/music/debussy_piano/dumesnil/dumesnil.html

The web page starts this way:

How to Play and Teach Debussy
by Maurice Dumesnil
Endorsed by Madame Claude Debussy

"It is so rare to hear and interpretation so scrupulously exact and comprehensive"

Published by Schroeder and Gunther, Inc. New York 1932


here's the webpage to arabesque #1:
http://homepage.mac.com/stevepur/music/debussy_piano/arabesque1.html

Practice!

Offline violinist

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Re: Debussy Arabesque #1 - a few weeks later!!! (practice practice practice)
«Reply #14 on: November 12, 2005, 12:10:47 AM »
Oh... and I just found one from our own piano street user Nordlys.

http://djupdal.org/karstein/debussy/

wow... lot's o info.
Practice!

Offline zheer

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Re: Debussy Arabesque #1 - a few weeks later!!! (practice practice practice)
«Reply #15 on: November 12, 2005, 08:26:38 AM »
Yes thanks a lot violinist , i will look at those at some point.
" Nothing ends nicely, that's why it ends" - Tom Cruise -

Offline ahmedito

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Re: Debussy Arabesque #1 - a few weeks later!!! (practice practice practice)
«Reply #16 on: November 12, 2005, 10:44:56 AM »
For the love of God, sorry Zheer, but it seems you don't know what you are talking about. Reading your posts in this topic (only here though, nothing personal), I see such a load of rubbish and misinformation, that I had to say something.

It gets annoying when people give advice without knowing really what they're talking about. Ignorant people read it and take it seriously.
For a good laugh, check out my posts in the audition room, and tell me exactly how terrible they are :)

Offline zheer

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Re: Debussy Arabesque #1 - a few weeks later!!! (practice practice practice)
«Reply #17 on: November 12, 2005, 10:51:05 AM »
I think you are talking rubish, if you can give me an example fine. I dont think you can.
" Nothing ends nicely, that's why it ends" - Tom Cruise -

Offline zheer

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Re: Debussy Arabesque #1 - a few weeks later!!! (practice practice practice)
«Reply #18 on: November 12, 2005, 03:02:47 PM »
Well anyway where were we, o yes the Arabesque #1, thanks violinst , i did reed the webpage on the Arabesque and to my suprise he/she also mentioned the sections, slowing down and speeding up and tempo and haw do end the piece and tha idea that it is impressionist not romantic style of playing and dynamics almost all the things i had mentioned to you.
     I really dont know why my comments are rubbish according to whats his name.   
" Nothing ends nicely, that's why it ends" - Tom Cruise -

Offline violinist

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Re: Debussy Arabesque #1 - a few weeks later!!! (practice practice practice)
«Reply #19 on: November 12, 2005, 08:15:05 PM »
I got this set of cd's for claudio arrau playing debussy.  How's he for interpreting debussy's works?  There's no arabesque on the cd's .. I wonder why.  to basic of a piece?
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Offline wzkit

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Re: Debussy Arabesque #1 - a few weeks later!!! (practice practice practice)
«Reply #20 on: December 12, 2005, 07:41:20 PM »
I got this set of cd's for claudio arrau playing debussy.  How's he for interpreting debussy's works?  There's no arabesque on the cd's .. I wonder why.  to basic of a piece?

This is hardly a basic piece. I have not heard Arrau play Debussy, but from what I recall of his Chopin Nocturnes, they had beautiful, albeit rather heavy feel to them. Personally I prefer a lighter, more ethereal sound for Debussy.

I would recommend listening to Francois Joel Thollier on Naxos, or Tamas Vasary for a recording of this piece.

Offline gruffalo

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Re: Debussy Arabesque #1 - a few weeks later!!! (practice practice practice)
«Reply #21 on: December 12, 2005, 10:01:15 PM »
its good, but some of the left hand needs to be lighter, and the main right hand melody theme needs to be much more floatier and dreamier, and yes the pace less jerky and metronomical, more even paced but still musical.

i like your finger work, in certain places it really stands out nicely.

Offline violinist

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Re: Debussy Arabesque #1 - a few weeks later!!! (practice practice practice)
«Reply #22 on: December 12, 2005, 10:29:54 PM »
Wow, people are still listening to this.  I've been busy with work and all but I've still been working on the Arabesque.  You should hear it now ;)

I totally appreciate all the comments here.  They were so in-line with a lot of the comments I got from my masterclass that I did with this piece.

You guys are all I need to become a pianist.

I really like the way I play the arabeseque now.  Before I was so so about it.  Now, I feel I have some authority on this piece - mainly from bringing out the comments made here, and having those comments confirmed by the masterclass.  Of course it's always a work in progress.
Practice!

Offline gruffalo

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Re: Debussy Arabesque #1 - a few weeks later!!! (practice practice practice)
«Reply #23 on: December 13, 2005, 09:34:07 PM »
send it to us again. i would like to hear the progress.

Offline pitifulpaul1

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Re: Debussy Arabesque #1 - a few weeks later!!! (practice practice practice)
«Reply #24 on: December 21, 2005, 02:30:41 AM »
Loved it.  I'll be learning this one in a few days, and I could only hope to play it as well as you do.  Very nicely done.

Offline shasta

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Re: Debussy Arabesque #1 - a few weeks later!!! (practice practice practice)
«Reply #25 on: December 21, 2005, 07:12:52 PM »
Violinist, you are doing a great job!  By the way, please post a recording of you playing the violin (I don't care that this is not a violin forum...).  I'd love to hear you!
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Offline zheer

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Re: Debussy Arabesque #1 - a few weeks later!!! (practice practice practice)
«Reply #26 on: December 21, 2005, 07:24:24 PM »
I think violinst plays it evern better know.
" Nothing ends nicely, that's why it ends" - Tom Cruise -

Offline sss3d

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Re: Debussy Arabesque #1 - a few weeks later!!! (practice practice practice)
«Reply #27 on: December 23, 2005, 07:48:04 PM »
This forum is the best.   ;D

Nice work Violinist considering you don't take real piano lessons (am I right?)! ;D ;D

I think it just sounded nice.  :) 
I, Don't have enough experience to suggest for improvement, sorry.  :P

Good job Violinist.  :)
I need inspiration!........50%
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Offline tompilk

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Re: Debussy Arabesque #1 - a few weeks later!!! (practice practice practice)
«Reply #28 on: December 23, 2005, 08:12:39 PM »
This is an alternative piece in the Grade 8 ABRSM. Have you done this/plan on doing it?
Working on: Schubert - Piano Sonata D.664, Ravel - Sonatine, Ginastera - Danzas Argentinas

Offline violinist

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Re: Debussy Arabesque #1 - a few weeks later!!! (practice practice practice)
«Reply #29 on: December 27, 2005, 07:50:47 PM »
Hey Tompilk!

I'm just interested in playing the piano for personal enjoyment, and yeah.. this forum is my guide!  I actually don't know much about the grading system of ABRSM.  Thanks everyone for supporting my great new hobby this year and for more years to come!!!! happy holidays.

Practice!

Offline violinist

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Re: Debussy Arabesque #1 - a few weeks later!!! (practice practice practice)
«Reply #30 on: December 27, 2005, 08:04:51 PM »
I think violinst plays it evern better know.

Zheer,

You're too kind.  The music keeps evolving.  Zheer has a link to my "myspace" webpage.  I didn't want to take up too much space on this forum, so I posted my latest music playing... includes the Chopin Nocturne 72/1 !  So if you want, visit those pages with my crazy piano playing, and one of them has my violin playing on it when I was a lot younger.

http://www.myspace.com/vinli

http://www.myspace.com/violcano

I'm been crazy busy, I plan to revisit here much more often when Februrary rolls around.

Feel free to drop me e-mail, here at the forum, or at myspace - whatever!  I'm always looking for new folks to get to know.

I'm going to post another message to let others know about the half-baked Chopin 72/1 Nocturne...  which I plan to record again in the future and maybe post right here.
Practice!