I need some help with composing a song

[infectedmushroom]

Lately I'm busy with composing a song of my own, but I never really finish a song, cause I don't have inspiration enough I guess.

The problem mostly comes after the "intro" of a song. I come up with a nice sounding intro, but I never really know what to play after it. Does it help to know some scales, with making an own song? Or is it just my lack of inspiritation why I can't come up with new things?


If someone has tips for me to improve this, I'd like to hear them.


Thanks.

[m1469]

There are some things which I have found to be helpful.  Generally, I think it is perfectly acceptable to compose for the sake of composing (especially to begin with), and not just to express some big deep meaningful thing (often that comes out anyway).  There are probably a number of people who would disagree with me on this, but hey, to each their own.  With that having been said, it would serve one well to experiment with all kinds of things, and not just get set into one pattern (at least not to begin with).

More than a sepcific kind of book knowledge, I think it is important to have a number of different tools at one's disposal.  There are certain affects that are commonly used and which knowing just a few of, one can go for miles and miles with only those.

I am personally infatuated with composing counterpoint, for me it's really, really fun and intriguing.  I have not done a ton of it, but when I have, I have used models to help me learn the style.  I have found that for me, having some kind of idea on structure is a really big help (I am kind of a "form"  and structure freak  ). 

So, you say that you get intros, and that's great, but what else do you imagine happening in the piece ?  Even just general ideas are a good place to start.  Maybe you have some idea on a rhythmic pulse, or a certain kind of harmonic change.  Do you have a motive or motif that you want to have develop further down the road ?  How do you want it to develop ?  Do you want thick texture, or thin texture ?

There are of course a lot more questions that could be explored.  I think sometimes I have become much too mystical about it and have tried to find some sound from the depths of my soul.... heh... well, I think it can be something different.  Maybe like finger painting or something.  Just experiment.  Soemthing like " I would like it to be primarily chordal, and then a middle section of only single-note melody, back to chordal " type of thing or something like " I want to experiment with octaves in the LH and RH in parallel motion a third apart, and then contrary motion in such and such a pattern. "  Just finding out what kinds of sounds you like to use and hear, it's can be like exploring a blank canvas.

Well, these are my general ideas, there is much more detail of course.  I do hope it helps a little anyway.



m1469


ps-  I assuming that you mean "piece" instead of an actual "song."  I am not a nazi when it comes to this, it is just that my answer would be slightly different if you mean an actual song.

[Ruro]

Hi there infectedmushroom, and nice post m1469!

I have tried composing quite a few times, actually probably more so in attempts of transcribing non-piano pieces, but I have written one piece so far.

When I started, I was tbh just hitting keys to see if any interesting melodies would come up. When I got that, I of course had to expand on it to make the whole piece. One thing I tried to keep in mind was not keep the same melody throughout, 10 minutes of a recurring pattern on the same notes, you never hear that in a piece! (As far as I can recall)

Basicaly I just varied the ways I could hit those notes, maybe moving across 2 octaves up and down to create a scale, then on the second run change your starting location. I made a poor choice of using some octaves in my piece, sounds nice, but is it a bit boring, so don't go overboard there O_o Unless you feel it's neccessary.

As m1469 suggested, plan out maybe how the piece will play in terms of scales/chords and stuff, I kinda went for: "It will start sharp... then it will be precariously progressive and then deep chords will lay the path of the larger melodical section". Doing this gave me some strict guidelines to abide by, sometimes changing it a bit if I see fit, but tbh it kept me writing variations and stuff throughout - I would definately use this method in my next composition (Unless I thought it all out already [As if!]).

Finaly I would say, if you are like me, a beginner with a keyboard: Don't let your skill determine how to compose the piece, I am regretting it and am already trying to revise my piece so it sounds better, and NOT within my technical abilities. And if you have a keyboard, don't let the lack of keys (not the full 88) stop you from going up and down "there".

Well, dunno if that's of any use but I know some of it works, cause it worked for me! ^_^ Although I guess it doesn't have to work for everyone O_o

Have fun composing!

[infectedmushroom]

m1469 and Ruro: thanks for your help and your time to post this information, I appreciate it!



m1469: I was talking about a piece, yes. Well, if I'm right about what you're saying, I should experiment a lot more than I do now, thinking about scales etc. And I think you're kinda right about that. Mostly I think like "okay, now I have a nice sounding intro, but what should I play now?". Then I'm starting to think about all kinda things, but I never come up with something good, or I'm gonna start using the same pattern the whole time, wich is kinda boring of course.

I do have an other "problem" though. In my mind, I come up with a lot of nice melodies (well, atleast they sound good in my mind  ), but I really have a hard time to play those melodies wich are stuck into my head. I have it with drawing too; in my mind I see something cool and I have many ideas, but it just can't come out for some reason. I don't think it's a technical thing. I'm still a beginner, who's playing on a keyboard with 61 notes, but my technic isn't that bad. I played the guitar for 3 years before I started to play piano/keyboard, so my fingers were already used to play at the same time. Atm I'm playing a lot of stuff from Nobuo Uematsu and a lot of other game music. Before I started playing piano I never bothered about classical music, but now I do and I'm playing some Liszt (Consolation/Liebestraume), some Mozart and I'm trying to do some stuff from Chopin (of course, not the most difficult pieces, but I have to start somewhere, of course). I only have a hard time with fast phrases and of course, grade 7/8 pieces are too difficult for me, but that won't stop me with trying to compose a nice sounding song. 




Ruro: thanks for your advice. And yes; I'm still a beginner too, with a keyboard. I'm kinda like you with composing, when you started. I guess I should start to think more like m1469 is saying, yes. And experiment a lot more and variate. One problem is still there for me; I'm not really into musical theory. I can't read notes and I don't know scales. When I learn a new piece, I use my ears a lot (of course  ) and my keyboard shows me wich notes I'm playing, so that's how I learn a piece. I think this is really a big disadvantage too, when it comes to composing a song. But my brother is like me; he can't read notes and stuff, doesn't know anything about scales, but he can compose very good imo. He always comes up with cool things and various stuff. I think he can play what in his mind... *sigh*


Well, I'm gonna start working on my composing skills and keep your advice in my mind, I think it'll help, thanks again. 




P.S: I hope I'm "clear" in this post. English isn't my first language, so it's sometimes hard for me to make an understandable post.

[abell88]

I do have an other "problem" though. In my mind, I come up with a lot of nice melodies (well, atleast they sound good in my mind   ), but I really have a hard time to play those melodies wich are stuck into my head.

I'd suggest studying some solfege or some other ear training that will make you aware of what the notes are that are going through your head. That will speed up your composing tremendously. You can start just by trying to play very simple pieces by ear (children's songs) and paying attention to how the notes of the song are related to each other...so when you hear a melody in your head, you will realize that the second note is two notes lower than the first, for example. Also, play different chords and get used to how they sound, and what chord sounds good before and after each other. Ideally I think you should study at least some music theory, but it's for you to decide how important that is for you.

[infectedmushroom]

Thanks for your reply abell88.


You're right about learning some musical theory. I just don't really know where to start with it. I'm not taking lessons, I just do all the work by myself. Of course, that's fine and on the internet there is a lot of information to learn something new, but it's always hard to start with something new. Anyway, I'll focus on the musical theory more in the future. I bet it'll help my composing skills.

I like your idea to train the music wich is in my mind. Though, a song/piece wich is already writtin and played by someone, is easier for me to play by ear than a song wich is in my mind only. Too bad I don't have perfect pitch or absolute pitch. I think that would've made composing a lot easier for me. Every time of the day I can think of something new, wich I never heard before. When I'm not that busy at work, I'm always thinking of new sounds and melodies. Too bad I can't play them yet.

Well I think I'm gonna start with some "children" songs in my mind. One note stuff, wich I never heard before and then try to play it. Thanks for the idea abell88, cause I mostly think of something more technical. Not that hard, but something with chords, left and right hand at the same time, fast(er) parts etc.... Anyway, time to work on it.