Lion VS 40 midgets.

[ahmedito]

Who would win in a fight?

I think its lion, no question about it.

[ahmedito]

One full grown lion, left without food for 2 days in a locked room vs 40 weaponless midgets in good health, allowed to plan a strategy beforehand for 10 minutes.

[ahmedito]

Who the hell voted for the midgets!!!!? I think its clear the lion would crush them.

[Kassaa]

What's a midget?

[ahmedito]

I think the politically correct term is "little people" these days. Every day midgets though, not kamikaze ninja midgets or anything like that.

I HAD to make this post after I read an article a long time ago on the internet about a Cambodian midget fighting team who actually tried it out, although they were 42. Maybe its was a hoax though. I just realized, after looking for the article again, that it was a fake, heres a link though:

https://www.newturfers.com/mwf/attach/38/355838/BBCNEWSWorldLionMutilates42MidgetsinCambodianRing-Fight.htm

By the way, I still think the lion would completely crush them. He A LION!!!! 500 pound killing machine.

[arensky]

One full grown lion, left without food for 2 days in a locked room vs 40 weaponless midgets in good health, allowed to plan a strategy beforehand for 10 minutes.

Ah, not weaponless. Forty little people have 80 hands and 80 feet, with 400 fingers. I will grant you that about 6 little people will die, and about seven to twelve will be horribly wounded, perhaps fataly. But think of the little people swarming and swirling around the lion, which quickly becomes panicked and angry, as well as being hungry which introduces an element of instinct rather than strategy. We are not effective fighters when we are angry. Once the little people have blinded the lion by poking it's eyes out, it's just a matter of time before the 3 strongest little people manage to rip it's jugular or break it's neck. This is quite a mental image, quite horrifying for all involved. 

[rc]

Arensky vs. a lion, the winner takes on 40 midgets.

Seriously though, I've seen this kind of thing, the lion always wins.

[arensky]

Arensky vs. a lion, the winner takes on 40 midgets.

Seriously though, I've seen this kind of thing, the lion always wins.

Hehe..hoho...haha..... It is good I can run fast. This is not a fight I would pick. I have to go to my gig now, but when I come back I will tell about how I helped save the former Indian Ambassador to Egypt from 3 charging Komodo Dragons on Komodo Island... 

                                                 

[arensky]

I was working on a ritzy little cruise ship as bandleader/recitalist/cocktail pianist and one of our stops was Komodo Island in Indonesia. I always did tour escort duty whenever I could, the ship went to very interesting places that most people never get to see. We anchored at Komodo so the passengers could see the dragons, there's no other reason to stop there. We took the tender to the rickety dock and were met by the native guides, who were carrying three-pronged sticks. I would see why later...we walked about a mile and a half through the jungle to the presrve/center, which is/was basically a corral with Komodo Dragons in it; On the way in we saw some juveniles and regular monitor lizards in the brush. The rangers served us some cool caffeine laden drink which made me very fidgety. In the distance some Dragons were ambling slowly toward the preserve, while the Ambassador moved in closer to film them with his zoom lens. After 90 minutes or so it was time to head back to the ship. It was very hot, about 110 degrees with maybe 85% humidity. I always followed the passengers from a distance, on the pretext of rounding up stragglers but actually to be alone in whatever wonderful exotic place we were that day. I headed into the trail with my ranger/guide counterpart, a wiry little dude with one of those three pronged sticks, wearing a Ralph Lauren Polo shirt and a loincloth sort of thing. He spoke no English and I none of his language, but words are overrated. I tuned around to make sure that none of the passengers were left behind, when I saw the Ambassador still filming the Dragons; suddenly the clumsy looking things broke into a swift run, charging the Ambassador; I yelled at him run my way, and even as I did so our guide charged right at the Dragons, brandishing his stick. I ran forward to intercept the Ambassador, who looked only mildly alarmed, when the ranger motioned for me to take the Ambassador down the trail, back to the ship. I went ahead with the Ambassador, then realized we were alone on a jungle island infested with man-eating lizards the size of a man...

                                            (to be continued)

...and one of the largest concentrations of poisonous snakes per square mile on the planet. And so I cracked open some water bottles for the Ambassdor and myself (I always had a cooler full of bottled water for the passengers,part of being a tour escort,  particularly on a day like this one  in such a place). I wondered how our ranger was doing against the three dragons, and assumed the rangers at the preserve had reinforced him, and hoped they had more than those sticks in case it got ugly. Komodo Dragon saliva is toxic, not naturally but because they eat decaying meat. They seem to prefer it that way, they will kill a deer and let it rot, which happens quickly in Komodo's climate. Then they feast. Of course being large reptiles they don't floss  and their saliva is therefore highly toxic. If you are bitten you have a good chance of dying. Anyway as we walked on down the trail we came upon one of the passengers sitting on a rock, an overweight out of shape lady who looked like she might have a heart attack at any second. The Ambassador and I stopped, gave her some water, and after a few minutes we helped her up and started walking again, but very slowly, back towards the ship. Our ranger came up behind us, and I asked him, forgetting he could not understand English, "Are they gone?" or something stupid like that. He smiled, and brandished his 3 pointed spear, said something and made a gesture which meant something like "no problem, I've got it under control!" We continued on, and after a while he (the ranger) suddenly stopped, and stepped out in front of us, stick at the ready. I looked at the Ambassador and he back at me; we had heard and seen nothing, but the sounds of the jungle. Suddenly a young (or not so big, about the size of a German Shepherd) Dragon scooted out of the brush, and onto the trail in front of us. The ranger lunged at it with his spear, the dragon tried to outflank him, but the ranger was quick, he whirled around and lunged at the dragon again, and emitted a  series of Bruce Lee sort of yelps, which I realized were a signal for the other rangers. The Ambassador myself and the fat lady watched in fascination, as the dragon finally slunk back into the underbrush. The ranger had not hurt the dragon, he seemed to have just threatened it so it retreated. We  were about halfway back to the ship, and we continued our journey. Suddenly the guide said something, motioned for us to stop, walked a short way off the trail, motioned for us to come forward. He pointed to a baby dragon which was halfway up a tree trunk; they spend a lot of time in trees because dragons eat their young...  it was really cute, and we were the only ones that day who saw a baby, they are quite secretive, as they do not wish to be eaten. When we were almost back to the ship, the ranger jumped out again, and motioned for us to go ahead; then he came back, and I said "again?" He made motions which indicated he had seen a snake; all snakes in Komodo are poisonous, as in Australia. Anyway, we finally got back to the dock, and while waiting for the tender, a dragon ambled out of the jungle onto the beach; but this one plunged into the surf, and swam off, thank god!

The captain was angry at me for holding up departure, but the Ambassador intervened on my behalf, saying it was all his fault (which it was!). And so I went below, showered, put on my tux and went to the dining room to play Chopin and Cole Porter for the passengers....

An arensky true life adventure....

[ahmedito]

Excuse the rough language, but as you can see,  I am very passionate about this subject. There is no way in hell the midgets would win. Lions are big mammals who get angry easily and do not stand for any sh*t from puny midgets.

Some facts:

1) The male lion, easily recognized by his mane, may weigh up to 250 kg (550 lb).  Moral: Lions are *** big.

2) Lions are one of the most sexually active cats. During a female's estrus cycle, a male and female will mate unabated for 5-7 days every 10 to 20 minutes.  Moral: Lions are STUDS.

3) Like all other cats they are superpredators, but unlike all other cats they are social hunters and take prey too large and dangerous to overpower singly. Moral: He already knows your midget tricks!

4) Male lions exist largely to defend the pride; excellent fighters (the mane on lions is an evolutionary adaptation to fighting; the mane absorbs bites and scratches that might otherwise be lethal). Moral: This *** does this for a living, against OTHER LIONS.

5) They can sleep as many as 20 hours in a day. Moral: A well-rested fighter is a focused fighter.

6) Baby or young lions... face a high mortality rate from starvation, attacks by other large predators, and especially by male lions killing the younger ones while taking over a pride. Moral: This cat is from the hood.  He's already survived sh*t you can't imagine.

So the midgets are going against a ridiculously fast and strong badass street *** who outweighs any five of them, fights other lions for a living, is well-rested and oversexed, and is "highly agitated."  Actually, scratch "oversexed", because we all know he's "highly agitated" cuz someone took away his lioness bitches and he's got serious *** blue balls.  All he wants to do is get his freak on with Lola the Lioness every ten minutes for the next week, and you KNOW she wants it.  All he's got in his way are these forty screaming things in front of him, scared shitless and crying.

No contest, folks.  No contest.

The midget's case is actually quite bad, I mean: Why does everyone seem to think that forty ordinary people, given five minutes, will suddenly turn into fearless, well-coordinated, superhuman beast-killing machines?  Try a little experiment here.  Next time you're walking down a busy street, take note of the first forty people you see, at random.  Now imagine them all as midgets.  The lady with the toy poodle and $3000 purse?  She's one of your forty.  That guy who's so fat he starts sweating as soon as he starts even thinking about standing up?  He's one of your forty, too.  The guy who looks like your sister could break him in half?  Yep, he's one of your forty.  Sure, there's the steelworker, but he's just one guy.  Mr. ex-military would be good as a leader, but he's got to come up with a plan and convince every single person that a) he should be the leader, and b) that his plan is the best, all in five minutes.

Seriously, five minutes.  Have none of you ever been to a staff meeting at work?  People can't decide what kind of donuts to buy in five minutes.

Anyways, my take in what would actually happen is the following:

First, the little bastards argue for five minutes about what a good plan might be, and who gets to tell them what to do anyway, because forty people can't agree on ANYTHING in five minutes unless they have an acknowledged authority figure who tells them what to do.

Enter THE LION.

They completely panic, most of them forgetting their own name (much less any plan they might have had), and the lion kills the first ten or so--mostly the weakest and slowest, but also just those that were closest to him when he entered.  Depending on how large the room is, at least one midget probably gets trampled to death, too.  Now of the remaining thirty, let's be generous and figure that 2/3 of them actually somewhat recover from the shock as the adrenaline kicks in.  We've got twenty midgets who realize they have to do something, and quick.  However, there is no plan--there's probably two or three different plans that all sounded good in the five minutes before this horror was unleashed, so as people tend to do in stressful situations, they all start to break into smaller groups that act independently of each other.  Let's round up and say that's three groups of seven people--or 7, 7, 6 if you want to stick with the exact twenty--who are under attack now.  THE LION, by the way, is not wasting his time eating.  He's not going to eat if he's not hungry, and remember, he fights for a living.  He's well-acquainted with the concept of "I'ma kill this mothafucka even if I ain't hungry".  He's also used to dealing with predators in groups--cf. Hyena, The.  Maybe two of the three midget groups survive the second phase, but by now the lion has a few minor wounds and is enraged.  Now we're basically down to fourteen midgets trying to work in concert vs. a full grown, enraged male lion with a few minor wounds.  Their plan is still haphazard and formed on the fly, and they're going to be tripping over the eviscerated bodies of their buddies and slipping on all the blood in the meantime.  Do any of you realistically think The Fourteen stand a chance here?  Please.

Now, since this one is no contest,  I wonder what would happen if you dumped 40 midgets and a quart of blood in a shallow pool with a tiger shark?

[pianistimo]

you forget the biblical story of daniel in the lion's den.  here, there was one person, and a bunch of lions (all very hungry).  if all the midgits were christians, there might be a different outcome.  God can choose to intervene if He wishes - and in very many cases he does.  if we live our lives in fear of lions - we get nothing done.  sooner or later we're all going to die - don't go around worrying about it. 

wild animals don't tend to like fire.  if the midgits were resourceful, they would (in the five minutes allotted) try to start a fire and pass around torches.  then, make lots of noise (oogaaboogaa - while praying at the same time).   i don't tend to like to see flamed animals (but in cases of who eats who - i think the lion is going bye bye unless he decides to disappear off into the brush and not fight.

[arensky]

I wonder what would happen if you dumped 40 midgets and a quart of blood in a shallow pool with a tiger shark?

Shark wins. It is in it's element.

Perhaps you are right about the lion. You make a passionate and convincing case for it. At any rate, I will now finish my true life adventure with the Dragons of Komodo Island....

[pianistimo]

that's a great story arensky!  not very many people can say they've seen komodo dragons in the wild.  i've been charged by a moose.  it was kind of surreal.  but, humans can win - because they have a bigger brain.  just as the guy with the stick probably was going to stuff it down the komodo's throat - i decided that if a moose only has one eye on one side of the head - then if i move sideways and out of vision - the moose will not see me.  if i move in front of the moose - she (cow)would see me out of both eyes.  so, i ran off the street into knee high snow and back behind some brush.  sure enough, moose can't turn around very fast when they charge in one direction - so, i just went off in the deep snow towards the nearest house.  the size of a creature can give you the shakes for an hour afterwards.

i say, have a plan for your environment if you know that certain animals habitate it.  don't rely on others.  sometimes even guides don't have plans.  thankfully, yours did.  i used to go off by myself hiking and cross-country skiing for hours on end in alaska.  i almost fell into several mine shafts in fairbanks because i would make my own trails sometimes.  glad we have cell phones nowdays.  besides the unseeable disasters, there's the animals.  what i didn't know never hurt me.  i used to think wolves were the neighbor's dogs.  i once saw one and because i was a teenager and still not thinking that wild animals lived close to town - just acted like it was a dog and went my way.  it just looked at me and then sauntered off.  (some of our neighbors had half- wolf dogs).

i still say prayer is the best policy (along with a gun if you are in bear or lion country).  of course, our midgits here have no weapons - so if half cannot light the fire in five minutes, they can at least all pick up some heavy rocks.  if they all wait until the last possible moment and then crack them all on his head - i think the lion will remain unconcious long enough for them to get away.  i say the midgits will win.

 

[rc]

For all we know, midgets and lions may be friends in the wild, and they would cooperate to come after us. What's more dangerous, an angry midget or an angry midget riding a lion?

I wonder... Lion vs Komodo Dragon, on a trampoline. Winner takes on 40 midgets riding moose (meese?).

As a kid, whenever I was outside after dark and the dogs were barking, I figured they were wolves. I'd imagine, just beyond my vision, packs of hungry wolves waiting to get the jump on me. I have a knack for scaring the hell out of myself. I figure that if I was in a situation where I had to scrap with some wolves, I would try to pick out the biggest one and go savage on it. Turn my fear into rage and do what I could to destroy the creature, just lose it. Perhaps if I become scary enough the wolves will decide I'm not worth messing with. Maybe I will have proven myself to them and they will let me lead the pack... I would enjoy having a loyal pack of wolves.

I'm diggin the stories though . Learning a lot about komodo dragons, lions and midgets. What I'm curious about, is how does one get a gig on a cruise ship, and how awesome is that?

[amanfang]

Lion wins.  Definitely.

[lisztisforkids]

Ahmedito,

 While I respect your passion, your argument is fractured and lacks authority.

You say that male lions are studs because of their frequent mating, no.. this just means that they are shallow and horny. The only time a male lion even looks at a femlae lion is when the female lion is in its estrus cysle.
Moral: Lions are shallow bastards.


 You say that lions are social beast and hunters. This is true.. FOR FEMALE LIONS. The female lion is the individual that goes out to hunt for food while the male lion sleeps for up to 20 hours a day.
Moral: Lions are lazy

Lions dont have predators! theire at the top of the food chain!
Moral: Lions are born into the good life, not from the 'hood'

The only time a male Lion will fight is to defend its territory/females.
Moral: Lions are greedy

Overall its the female that does the hunting and nursing not the 'King of beasts'.

Enter the Lion.

 The Lion makes a loud roar and proceeds to beat the stuffing out of the midgets. But the midgets have a plan in order. While the Lion blindly charges for a mass of Midgets, a couple of Midgets hop on to the Lions back via its mane to procced to gouge out the eyes of the Lion. The Lion now being incapable of sight wanders around aimlessly in pain and confusion. The Midgets move for the kill....

[arensky]

The Lion makes a loud roar and proceeds to beat the stuffing out of the midgets. But the midgets have a plan in order. While the Lion blindly charges for a mass of Midgets, a couple of Midgets hop on to the Lions back via its mane to procced to gouge out the eyes of the Lion. The Lion now being incapable of sight wanders around aimlessly in pain and confusion. The Midgets move for the kill....

That's what I thought....

[lisztisforkids]

That's what I thought....

Great minds think alike. 

[arensky]

Great minds think alike. 

true   

[ahmedito]

1. There are no rocks here. Imagine a raquetball court for example.

2. If you think that in 5 minutes the midgets are going to get organized enough to lure the lion then jump on its back and gouge its eyes out, me thinks you are a bit naive. These are regular everyday midgets, not kamikze psycho ninja robotic killer midgets.

[pianolearner]

Who would win in a fight?

I think its lion, no question about it.

I think it’s more a question of motivation. What is the motivation for the lion to attack the midgets? Being a predator it will either be hungry and/or feel threatened so it has a reason to attack and would be acting purely on instinct. The midgets are much more intelligent so their motivation would be survival. They would have absolutely NO reason to attack the lion so like me (and most ordinary people) they would choose flight rather than fight and look for avenues of escape or avoidance. It would be down to survival of the fittest. If I was one of the midgets I would keep running and dodging hoping the stupid or weaker midgets would get eaten first, then when the lion is satisfied and exhausted I would attack it while it sleeps. Again, I can’t see the motivation to attack unless I am being forced to at gunpoint.

[bearzinthehood]

Lol you know there are people out there that can beat up 40 midgets at once.  A small but not inconsequential percentage of the population.  I'm sure a lion can be more deadly.

[lisztisforkids]

While the Lion has the advantage of brute strength, the Midgets have the advantage to plan. The Lion could not keep track of all 40 midgets at once.

[ahmedito]

Depends on the size of the room, if we're talking about a raquetball court, it shouldnt be that hard. Picture this:

____________
!      ::::::::::    !
!      ::::::::::    !
!           O         !
____________!

a bit smaller room though.

[pianolearner]

Depends on the size of the room, if we're talking about a raquetball court, it shouldnt be that hard. Picture this:

____________
!      ::::::::::    !
!      ::::::::::    !
!           O         !
____________!

a bit smaller room though.

The plan would be simple:- "Every man for him/her self. Don't be a hero"

All the midgets run for their life around the raquetball court. The lion gets tired and dizzy chasing them but it will manage to pick of the slower/weaker ones and start eating them. As long as the others keep away and perhaps play dead, it should not chase them. It may kill 10-15 midgets before it is completely exhausted and well fed. After that there will be no motivation for the lion to continue chasing and killing. Nature hasn't programmed ANY predator to chase and kill without reason. Assuming that 20 midgets have died before the lion is exhausted and well fed, it still leaves 20 unscathed midgets to mount a "surprise" attack. The remaining 20 midgets keep their distance and wait for the lion to fall asleep. Once the lion is asleep they arm themselves with bones left over from the hapless victims, sneak up to the lion and attack.

[pianistimo]

bones from the hapless victims?  this is getting gruesome.  i don't want to see any midgets dead.  having sheer numbers should make someone a good enough leader to try to avoid any kind of mishap. 

if snakes can be charmed - there must be something that makes lions a bit disoriented.  hmmm.  how about a splinter in the foot?

[bearzinthehood]

Heh yah the thought occured to me of carving shivs from the bones of the deceased.  Then again, you assume that the lion will take a break.  You are also conceding that there will be casualties.

[amanfang]

But what about the midgets who are simply mauled in the process but don't actually get eaten?  It's not the the lion just kills one, eats it, then moves onto the next.  He may kill many of them before eating one.  Especially if the lion feel threatened in a small room with a bunch of midgets around.

[pianistimo]

i googled 'how to tame a lion' and found an article about using a chair.  the lion focuses so much on what the legs are going to do - he simply cannot process anymore information. 

ok.  so here's the plan.  five midgets form chairs by kneeling on all fours,  four more midgets stand facing out as the 'legs' of the chair (arms and legs of first midget).  that's twenty midgets. two midgets stand atop each chair.  that's thirty midgets total.  the remaining ten midgets make some sort of whip or sounds to keep the lion distracted from trying to figure out the next movement of the five 'chair' legs. 

[pianolearner]

But what about the midgets who are simply mauled in the process but don't actually get eaten?  It's not the the lion just kills one, eats it, then moves onto the next.  He may kill many of them before eating one.  Especially if the lion feel threatened in a small room with a bunch of midgets around.

------------------

Taken from:

https://www.african-lion.org/lions_e.htm

"Like all cats lions have very good acceleration, but little stamina. When hunting it is important for them to get as close to their prey as possible before charging."


"Some prey species are killed by special techniques. Buffalo herds are usually followed for long distances with no attempt to stalk. Rather it seems that the lions attempt to panic the buffalo into scattering and to break up the formidable phalanx of buffalo making it easier to select a victim. "

---------------

It is clear the best strategy would be to form a few large groups (10x4), (4x10) ,(5x8),(8x5) and move in the same direction around the court separated by a few meters. It will be obvious when the lion is ready to charge and which group is the intended target. When this happens, the group under attack should disperse at which point the lion will single out a victim and kill him/her. The other groups should move as far away as possible to avoid injury. No group should act menacing or threatening, nor should they attempt any attack. After the first attack everyone will regroup and the cycle continues until the lion is exhausted and/or satisfied. There should be enough uninjured midgets left to move in for the kill at this point.

[pianistimo]

no midget has to die.  they just have to stand really still, one atop another's shoulder, back against the wall.  how can a lion get a grip around them standing against the wall? if you run, they will come after you.

[rc]

I wonder if a lion is as distracted by a shoe-string as a pet cat is?

...and are the midgets wearing shoes that tie?

This is what it comes down to. If the midgets are all wearing velcro, there's no hope.

[rimv2]

At first thought ah was like,


" Them there midgets dont stand no chance!!!!"


But then a thought about it for a while


A lion can take on ten maybe even twenty at a time


But 40 midgets


We all know midgets aint pushover so they obviously aint gone take no crap from that lion


So ah put mah money on tha midgets

[ahmedito]

Those are very elaborate plans, but I doubt the midgets can get their sh*t together in 5 minutes.

The lion will crush them, no question about it. There IS a case for the midgets though, but its weak.

[ahmedito]

By the way, some of you have mentioned that maybe the lion will stop killing or wont consider the midgets a threat. If you were THE LION, and you had 30 panicking midgets (the rest is dead or rigid with fear, hiding behind their imaginary friends) right in front of you, you'd not go "ah, those aren't threats, I'll lay dow for a nap right here". No, you think one of the following:
a) "Dis is my friggin' grounds, so piss off, or I'll make ya";
b) "Yo, midgets, you won't be sticking boners into my lioness" (after all, midgets *are* sex-hungry maniacs)
c) "Running object = bring it down"

Any of those plus some random wounds you get will transform you, i.e. THE LION, into a frenzied 500 lbs animal with lots of sharp teeth and super-human (super-midget) strength. And after the first two waves of midget attack are exhausted, you'll have a little time for a snack, which -- conveniently! -- will already be strewn around you. The midgets don't have that. And consider: Any necrophiliac midgets will already be distracted.

The primal instinct of THE LION is survival. The primal instinct of the midget is hiding in a flowerpot. LION wins.
 
 

[pianolearner]

By the way, some of you have mentioned that maybe the lion will stop killing or wont consider the midgets a threat. If you were THE LION, and you had 30 panicking midgets (the rest is dead or rigid with fear, hiding behind their imaginary friends) right in front of you, you'd not go "ah, those aren't threats, I'll lay dow for a nap right here". No, you think one of the following:
a) "Dis is my friggin' grounds, so piss off, or I'll make ya";
b) "Yo, midgets, you won't be sticking boners into my lioness" (after all, midgets *are* sex-hungry maniacs)
c) "Running object = bring it down"

Any of those plus some random wounds you get will transform you, i.e. THE LION, into a frenzied 500 lbs animal with lots of sharp teeth and super-human (super-midget) strength. And after the first two waves of midget attack are exhausted, you'll have a little time for a snack, which -- conveniently! -- will already be strewn around you. The midgets don't have that. And consider: Any necrophiliac midgets will already be distracted.

The primal instinct of THE LION is survival. The primal instinct of the midget is hiding in a flowerpot. LION wins.
 
 

Each time the argument swings in favour of the midgets you seem to change the conditions to favour the lion. ie/ A smaller room, A frenzied injured lion, a sexy lioness is suddenly in the picture and the midgets are now sex-hungry maniacs running around in a panic!!! The original question was a very basic "Lion Vs 40 Midgets", it has now become:- "Under what conditions will it be impossible for 40 midgets to defeat a Lion". Your argument is still baseless.

[timothy42b]

I tend to favor the lion, on the grounds that midgets (or giant humans, for that matter) are fairly fragile and vulnerable to those teeth and claws, while lions can take a lot of damage and remain functional for a while.

But I think there are a couple of mistakes above.

Why do we assume midgets are unarmed?  Midgets being at some risk for assault are likely to have something on them, more likely than average size people because they are targeted more.  There is no chance of finding 40 all unarmed, unless they are in a swimming pool or shower.  They also have probably been assaulted and have less natural repugnance towards violence to overcome - not only are they armed with at least knives and almost certainly some firearms, but they have already overcome the mindset problem. 

Next.  Male lions don't have sex.  Well, one does, the pride leader.  All other males don't get a chance unless they someday challenge and overcome the alpha lion.  By the way, I've seen lions having sex, and while it may be frequent, it is also quick, just a few seconds. 

[pianolearner]

I tend to favor the lion, on the grounds that midgets (or giant humans, for that matter) are fairly fragile and vulnerable to those teeth and claws, while lions can take a lot of damage and remain functional for a while.

But I think there are a couple of mistakes above.

Why do we assume midgets are unarmed?  Midgets being at some risk for assault are likely to have something on them, more likely than average size people because they are targeted more.  There is no chance of finding 40 all unarmed, unless they are in a swimming pool or shower.  They also have probably been assaulted and have less natural repugnance towards violence to overcome - not only are they armed with at least knives and almost certainly some firearms, but they have already overcome the mindset problem. 

Next.  Male lions don't have sex.  Well, one does, the pride leader.  All other males don't get a chance unless they someday challenge and overcome the alpha lion.  By the way, I've seen lions having sex, and while it may be frequent, it is also quick, just a few seconds. 

I'm assuming the conditions have been artificially created where the lion has been captured from the wild and placed inside a racquetball court along with 40 healthy but unarmed midgets. I'm also assuming that the midgets MUST kill the lion or they face execution. Under these conditions the lion and midgets are unlikely to behave as they would in their natural environment. So the argument about the lion being territorial and defending its pride or lioness doesn’t make any sense. I would say the lion would be in a greater state of anxiety and confusion than the midgets. The lion wouldn’t understand its predicament whereas the midgets would and that definitely gives them the advantage over and above pure brute force.

[timothy42b]

I'm assuming the conditions have been artificially created where the lion has been captured from the wild and placed inside a racquetball court along with 40 healthy but unarmed midgets. I'm also assuming that the midgets MUST kill the lion or they face execution. Under these conditions the lion and midgets are unlikely to behave as they would in their natural environment. So the argument about the lion being territorial and defending its pride or lioness doesn’t make any sense. I would say the lion would be in a greater state of anxiety and confusion than the midgets. The lion wouldn’t understand its predicament whereas the midgets would and that definitely gives them the advantage over and above pure brute force.

Well, you're quite right.  The assumptions are key to this.

But most of these assumptions artificially favor the lion.

In the real world, if 40 midgets went on an African safari together, a) they'd all have guns, and b)the lion would be hunting them one at a time.  There is no chance he'd get more than a couple.

In the real world where lions and midgets are transported into a racquetball court, a panicked lion would quickly kill them all.

In a possible world, say a film crew is doing Wizard of Oz with real midgets and a real lion and things get out of hand, an incident would be time limited and there would be lots of places to hide and ways to improvise weapons - hair spray and a lighter, for example, will discourage most lions.  (take notes, Sigfried and Roye)  I say the lion gets five. 

Now, being more realistic:  The only way this fight could happen is if it were deliberately produced as a spectator event intended to raise money.  Sort of "reality tv" on another level.  Now we are free to control conditions, and like handicapping a horse race, you are going to do that in a way to get the most even match.  So there will weapons available, but not decisive ones.  There will be hiding places, but not enough for all.  Etc., etc.  If you do this properly, lion wins 50% of the time. 

No, wait a minute, it's been done, this is the plot of the Aliens movies.  Ripley wins.  She's not a midget but they make her shave her head in one of them.  <g>

Note:  it is standard Internet protocol to crosspost this type of thread to Usenet: rec.martial-arts.  They deal with "could King Kong beat a shark armed with an axe?" type questions every week. 

Note:  A good premise for reality tv would be a fight between two guys driving backhoes.  You'd need to film it in a third world somewhere, I think. 

[ahmedito]

Im not changing the conditions at all! They are all there under the link I posted.

One highly agitated lion in a raquetball court with 40 unarmed midgets.

[tds]

Komodo Island in Indonesia......

An arensky true life adventure....

now, what tds has done in the province where komodo island lies was prolly less exciting than arensky's life adventure. nonetheless his is obviously more historical! how so? ok,  on august 27, 2005, at 19.00 WITA ( local time ), the name 'tds' was jotten down and since known as the very first pianist to ever give a full solo recital in the province.

now, back to lion or midgets! hmm....tough. midgets i'd say. two midgets fix the lion's eyes, one bites the lion's penis off. one midget dies, four others got badly bitten. the rest stays healthy, handsome and unwounded. at the end, they all sing the 'hallelujah' chorus pretty.

[ahmedito]

Females, being lazy.... that's the thing, though, the lion's not killing because it's hungry.  Male lions actually typically don't kill their own food once they have a pride--the lionesses do the hunting and they take the first bites of the kill, because they're *** pimps.  Seriously, a male lion exists for basically one purpose: to protect his sh*t--i.e., the rest of the pride--from predators.  Given that they're, well, lions, those predators basically consist of... other male lions, trying to get their own sh*t.  Plus the occasional hyenas going after the cubs.  THE LION's whole purpose in life is to kill anything that seems threatening.  And remember, we've stipulated that he's already highly agitated.  This is a pissed-off killing machine.

Anyway, of course he's a Teamster.  So who wins in a fight: 1) a 500 lb. Teamster who spends all his non-sleeping time fighting and screwing, who's pound for pound stronger than any human being on the planet, armed with four clawed limbs, massive canines, and a jaw capable of crushing bone with ease, or 2) 40 people of very short stature with no training, scared shitless and given nothing but five minutes to plan?

Teamster, baby.  Teamster.

Put it another way:

Exhibit A:





Exhibit B:





Look, there's sixteen of your forty in that second picture right there, seventeen if you count the person hiding in the back left.  I have nothing against them, they look like decent people.  But let's not kid ourselves.  They are going to die.

[pianistimo]

sounds like all the midgets need is a case of beer.

[tds]

and viagra. no?

[pianistimo]

i was thinking 'for the lion.'  ok.  the midgets get the viagra and the lion gets a case of beer.  but, this is beginning to sound gross.  after all, once the lion's mouth is held open and one beer after another downed - it will be tired and thus easy to take care of.  being an animal lover, i'd probably not kill it - but just pet it and then try to figure out a way to put a collar on.

[lisztisforkids]

Man vs. Beast.

Best topic ever!

[pianolearner]

i was thinking 'for the lion.'  ok.  the midgets get the viagra and the lion gets a case of beer.  but, this is beginning to sound gross.  after all, once the lion's mouth is held open and one beer after another downed - it will be tired and thus easy to take care of.  being an animal lover, i'd probably not kill it - but just pet it and then try to figure out a way to put a collar on.

And thus begins the new challenge:

pianistimo Vs 40 sex-hungry maniac midgets pumped up with viagra.

[pianistimo]

wait a minute.  you can't switch the rules and add people.  plus, i have no interest in any man who has to take viagra.  all natural.  (my husband can attest to his own natural hormones).  and, since i'm happily married and he's full of them - i have no need for any more men in my life.  midgets or otherwise.

*just wondering - is there a drug to calm guys down.  maybe lion tranquilizer?

[lisztisforkids]

And thus begins the new challenge:

pianistimo Vs 40 sex-hungry maniac midgets pumped up with viagra.

I think we know the answer to this question....

[g_s_223]

One advantage cats and dogs have over humans is (to us) amazingly fast reactions, i.e. if you swing at one, they are there before you have barely got your arm moving. Equally, if they lunge at you, you are way too late to respond. Lions are basically big cats (or the corollarly if you prefer, cats are...).

One thing the midgets could do, which is highly related to music, is coordinate a shout/scream at the lion. Loud noises frighten and disturb animals. Thus if the lion approached, a coordinated ffff yell would make him back off.

However, this effect on the lion would gradually wear off. Then it's midget bolognaise on the raquetball court...

P.S. Komodo dragons are really bad news...