what's the deal with w's and v's?

[Tash]

why is it in some european languages that the w is pronounced like a v (eg. wagner)? is there any difference in sound that i'm just too ignorant to be aware of? so does the normal w sound just not exist in german and stuff? same with j's and y's- what happened to the j sound? are there any exceptions?

[musik_man]

I don't know of any difference between our 'v' and the German 'w', but I am a stupid American, whose German is spoken with a bit of an accent, so I could be wrong.

The Germans have no 'w' sound.  Their 'w' is our 'v' and their 'v' is 'f' ('f' is our 'f'.)  'j' sounds like our 'y', and 'y' is an extremely uncommon letter in German.  I actually can't think of any German words with a 'y' that aren't foreign (ie latin derived.)

You can find the 'j' sound in German in 'Importwoerter'(import words) like blue jeans or jogging.

[danyal]

It works the same way in my 2nd language, afrikaans. (Very similar to dutch) Our 'w's are also pronounced "v"'s and 'v' also pronounced "f". It just takes a bit of getting used to, thats all. What really sometimes throws me between the 2 languages is the word order. Dunno about the rest of you.

[Tash]

oooooh. so there's 2 f sounds then? i guess that's like the 'ph' sound. excellent! yeah word order is hell confusing it's why i never liked learning languages, and the whole le and la thing in french. and then german has 3, die, something and something...

[rimv2]

Random info:

In french

W is called double V

perhaps this has something to do with its pronounciation

[stevie]

Random info:

In french

W is called double V

perhaps this has something to do with its pronounciation

makes more sense that double U

perhaps

[pianolearner]

why is it in some european languages that the w is pronounced like a v (eg. wagner)? is there any difference in sound that i'm just too ignorant to be aware of? so does the normal w sound just not exist in german and stuff? same with j's and y's- what happened to the j sound? are there any exceptions?

Here is an example of a foreign language that is just as confusing

In this language:

'PH' is sometimes an 'F' as in Phone but not Phridge...that is Fridge..BUT, 'Ph' isn't the only 'F' either. 'GH' is sometimes an 'F' like in Tough. Again you need to be careful because sometimes 'GH' is actually a 'U' as in through. 'K' is sometimes an 'N' such as Knife or Knight unless you are talking about night where you omit the 'K' to avoid confusion. The 'K' isn't the only 'N', sometimes the 'P' is an 'N' as in Pneumonia. 'M' can also be 'N' on occassions such as in the word 'mnemonic'.

[Floristan]

I studied Old English briefly in grad school (it was required for my major).  In that class we learned about both consonant and vowel shifts that occurred between OE and Middle English and how many of these shifts did not occur in the languages that developed into modern Dutch and German.  I don't remember the details now (god it was a BORING class), but yes, w became v, v became f, etc.  It's believed that all the Germanic languages share a common ancester language (which probably is lost to the ages!)  I'm including English here as a Germanic language, since those are its origins.  The heavy Latin influence on what became modern English is largely absent in other Germanic languages.  

[stevie]

english is just mildly legendary 

[Tash]

yeah i took the assumption that the same sounding different letters is probably just a result of different old languages being integrated together. we briefly studied old and middle english in linguistics last year, but i had no enthusiasm for the subject so learnt next to nothing...

[abell88]

In french

W is called double V

perhaps this has something to do with its pronounciation

More likely what it looks like... since W is extremely rare in French.

[pianorama]

Random info:

In french

W is called double V

perhaps this has something to do with its pronounciation

Well.... To be exact it's pronounced (insert thick french accent) "Dooble vee". (The letter itself, anyways)

[rimv2]

Well.... To be exact it's pronounced (insert thick french accent) "Dooble vee". (The letter itself, anyways)

Ah said it's called. Like how they call a certain human act "the little death."
 
Vey= V

Doob-le Vey = W

[pianorama]

Ah said it's called. Like how they call a certain human act "the little death."
 
Vey= V

Doob-le Vey = W

?

Vey= V

Doob-le Vey = W

You got that part right I think.

[prometheus]

Was, wie, wo, wollen, wetter, wasser, waffen, wald, welt...

Aren't those normal w's? I am not sure how Wagner is pronounced. I assume it is the same 'w' as in the words above. Which sounds the same as the 'w' in these english words; wind, warrior, war, want, wine, will, woman, etc.

[berrt]

Was, wie, wo, wollen, wetter, wasser, waffen, wald, welt...

Aren't those normal w's?

German normal Ws

I am not sure how Wagner is pronounced. I assume it is the same 'w' as in the words above

Yes

Which sounds the same as the 'w' in these english words; wind, warrior, war, want, wine, will, woman, etc.

No (see above)

[prometheus]

Then I am at a loss. Since I am both quite flued in english and dutch and quite able to understand german. But then again I am not that strong in the language department.

The idea from the second post that the english 'v' is the german 'w' is absurd. If I add the 'v' of vehicle, valve, volume, etc to those german words then they are obviously totally wrong. Sure, the german 'v' is different from the english one but v doesn't equal w by far. At least not to my ear.

[berrt]

The idea from the second post that the english 'v' is the german 'w' is absurd. If I add the 'v' of vehicle, valve, volume, etc to those german words then they are obviously totally wrong. Sure, the german 'v' is different from the english one but v doesn't equal w by far.

It does... im trustworthy, my native language is german.........

[prometheus]

I only live 30 km away from germany. I must say, I really don't get this.

[dough_mouse]

In latin actually, v's are pronounced as w's, which is weird since its the exact opposite in German. For example, when people say the famous Caesar quote, they pronounce it "Veni, Vidi, Vici" when Caesar would actually have said it "Weni, Widi, Wici."

hehehehe, weni....hehehe

[berrt]

In latin actually, v's are pronounced as w's, which is weird since its the exact opposite in German. hehehehe, weni....hehehe

Hu?
In German is V = W
or
V = F (it depends)

there is no such thing like the english "w".

[musik_man]

Then I am at a loss. Since I am both quite flued in english and dutch and quite able to understand german. But then again I am not that strong in the language department.

The idea from the second post that the english 'v' is the german 'w' is absurd. If I add the 'v' of vehicle, valve, volume, etc to those german words then they are obviously totally wrong. Sure, the german 'v' is different from the english one but v doesn't equal w by far. At least not to my ear.

A German 'w' does equal an English 'v' barring some minor issues of accent.

[galonia]

The English language is a 'mongrel' language - that's why a lot of people consider it quite a difficult language to learn.  It derives from so many sources - Germanic, Latin, Greek are just a few - so there are many rules each with many exceptions and special cases.  This applies to both pronunciation, spelling and grammar.