GREATEST EVER - Concertos

[frederic]

After just having watched an episode of "greatest ever" i thought i might try this out. I will start with concertos since its generally fellow forumers' favourite topic. So all you need to do is list from "No.10" what you consider are the "greatest ever" concertos and finish with No.1. And if you like to, tell us a bit about each concerto and why you think it deserves its place.
Here i would like to acknowledge fuel925, whos "10 most important.." thread prompted me to post this topic.

[Kassaa]

1. Brahms 2
2. Brahms 1
3. Rach 2.
4. Rach 3.
5. Beethoven 1.
6. Medtner 1.
7. Chopin 1.
8. Beethoven 3.
9. Bach D minor.
10. Mozart D minor.

[shasta]

1. Mendelssohn violin concerto E minor
2. Rach 2
3. Saint-Saens 5 (egyptian)
4. Rach Paganini
5. Vivaldi piccolo concerto C major
6. Beethoven violin concerto D major
7. Mendelssohn G minor
8. Chopin E minor
9. Mozart D minor
10. Haydn trumpet concerto E-flat major
 

[contrapunctus]

bach bach bach bach bach bach bach bach bach bach bach bach bach bach bach bach bach bach bach


Bach's brandenburgs and harpsichord concertos

[apion]

Top 15

1 Brahms 1
2 Brahms 2
3 Beethoven 4
4 Prokfiev 3
5 Rach 3
6 Bartok 2
7 Beethoven 5
8 Mozart 20
9 Rach 2
10 Bartok 1 / Bartok 3 (tie)
11 Prokofiev 2
12 Mozart 24
13 Schumann A minor
14 Liszt #1
15 Liszt Totentanz / Liszt #2 (tie)

[arpeggiosnake]

Piano:

1 - Beethoven G major
2 - Mendelssohn G minor
3 - Chopin F minor
4 - Beethoven C minor
5 - Reger F minor
6 - Schumman A minor
7 - Franck Symphonic Variations
8 - Liszt Eb major
9 - Saint Saens G minor
10 - Rachmaninov D minor.

Other instruments:

1 - Beethoven Violin Concerto
2 - Mendelssohn Violin Concerto in E minor
3 - Mozart Clarinet Concerto
4 - Giuliani Guitar Concerto in A major (num 1)
5 - Bruch Viloin Concerto in G minor
6-  Brahms Violin Concerto
7 - Dvorak Cello Concerto
8 - Vivaldi Flute Concerto in D major "Il Gardelino"
9 - Telemann Recorder Suite in A minor
10 - Paganini Violin Concerto in D  major

[kreso]

My favourite piano concertos:

1.) Brahms-no.1-Brahms-no.2
2.) Tchaikovsky-no.1
3.) Beethoven-no.4
4.) Rachmaninov-no.2
5.) Liszt-no.1
6.) Chopin-no.1
7.) Mozart-no.17 G-major
8.) Bach-d-minor
9.) Rachmaninov-no.3
10.) Beethoven-no.5

[thalbergmad]

1. Henselt
2. Rach 3
3. Beethoven 1
4. Bortkiewicz
5. Brahms 1
6. Rubinstein 4
7. Mozart 20
8. Thalberg
9. Chopin 1
10. Liszt 1

[pianalex]

beethoven 1,2,3,4,5
mozart 9
mozart 21
schumann
brahms 1
ravel Gmaj

[xamy]

Why has no one mentioned Grieg?

[phil13]

Beacause I'm about to...

10. Rach 2
9. Tchaikovsky 1
8. Grieg A minor
7. Mozart 27
6. Bach D minor
5. Chopin 2
4. Scriabin
3. Rach 3
2. Mozart 20
1. Chopin 1

Phil

[steveie986]

Prokofiev no. 2
Prokofiev no. 3
Prokofiev no. 1
Prokofiev no. 4
Prokofiev no. 5
Prokofiev no. 6 *
Prokofiev no. 7 *
Prokofiev no. 8 *
Prokofiev no. 9 *
Prokofiev no. 10 *

* hypothetical, since they could possibly have been written if he lived longer

[thierry13]

Prokofiev no. 2
Prokofiev no. 3
Prokofiev no. 1
Prokofiev no. 4
Prokofiev no. 5
Prokofiev no. 6 *
Prokofiev no. 7 *
Prokofiev no. 8 *
Prokofiev no. 9 *
Prokofiev no. 10 *

* hypothetical, since they could possibly have been written if he lived longer

I'm not sure, but I barely think you, possibly, like Prokofiev a little bit 

[frederic]

Hello peeps.
Please remember: Not your favourite concertos but what you consider to be the best concertos ever written. So in other words don't be bias.

Here's my list:

1.) Rachmaninoff 3
2.) Elgar Cello
3.) Brahms Violin
4.) Ravel G major
5.) Tchaikovsky Violin
6.) Rachmainoff 2
7.) Rachmaninoff 4
8.) Mozart D minor
9.) Tchaikovsky 2
10.) Beethoven C minor

Even though the two Chopins are my favourites, I've left them out because for the obvious reason that the orchestration isn't quite up to the standards of being a "Great" concerto, despite the fantastic piano writing.
Similarly with the Tchaikovsky First. Even though it's full of magnificent melodies, it is not a very good composition.
I seriously doubt that concertos such as the Bortkiewicz and the Henselt could ever be considered as "great" concertos. But the Bortkiewicz continues to be one of my all-time favourite "lollypops".

[pianalex]

haydn D major is also a charmer

[burstroman]

I have many suggestions, but where is the Sibelius Concerto, Bartok #1, Saint-Saens #1
(PIANO)

[phil13]

Beacause I'm about to...

10. Rach 2
9. Tchaikovsky 1
8. Grieg A minor
7. Mozart 27
6. Bach D minor
5. Chopin 2
4. Scriabin
3. Rach 3
2. Mozart 20
1. Chopin 1

Phil

I'll have to modify this. I took some more listenings of each.

10. Chopin 1
9. Tchaikovsky 1
8. Scriabin
7. Mozart 27
6. Grieg A minor
5. Beethoven 'Emperor"
4. Bach D minor
3. Rach 3
2. Mozart 20
1. Rach 2

There we go. By the way, anyone know of a good recording of the Scriabin concerto? I've heard it before, but I'd like to own it.

Phil

[odsum25]

1) Brahms 2
2) Brahms Violin
3) Berg Violin
4) Rachmaninov Paganini Variations
5) Bartok 3
6) Elgar Cello
7) Ravel G Major
Beethoven 4
9) Mozart Clarinet
10) Mendelssohn Violin

[apion]

1) Brahms 2
2) Brahms Violin
3) Berg Violin
4) Rachmaninov Paganini Variations
5) Bartok 3
6) Elgar Cello
7) Ravel G Major
Beethoven 4
9) Mozart Clarinet
10) Mendelssohn Violin

I don't know the Berg VC -- perhaps I should check it out!

[panic]

There are so many great concertos out there but a candidate I'm surprised no one's mentioned is the Busoni, just because it's so incredibly strong and tied together structurally (no pun intended - 3 of the movements were inspired by diff. architecture forms) that even at 70 minutes (longest ever?) it never overstays its welcome.

[brewtality]

I have no idea how we can produce an exhaustive list of the "greatest" anything in music. I mean what should the criteria be? I will list concerti I like, which doesn't only include the usual suspects:

1) Rach 1
2) Henselt
3) Rubinstein 3rd
4) Chopin 1
5) Beethoven 3
6) Schumann
7)Chopin 2
8) Rach 3
9) Chopin 2
10) Brahms 2
and btw why would the Henselt not be a great concerto? AFAIK, it fell off the standard rep due to it's difficultly. The Bort is very good, but I think it's prone to sentimentality. I like that gorgeously lush theme that is repeated throughout.

[odsum25]

I don't know the Berg VC -- perhaps I should check it out!

The Berg Violin Concerto is simply a masterpiece of 20th century music. Absolutely beautiful...Berg somehow always managed to inject such a great level of beauty and emotion into serial works, it's unbelievable.

[kreso]

Quote

There we go. By the way, anyone know of a good recording of the Scriabin concerto? I've heard it before, but I'd like to own


I think that Heinrich Neuhaus recorded that concerto..
I have beautifull recording by Konstantin Scherbakov for Naxos, really exellent playing..

[sevencircles]

The Berg Violin Concerto is simply a masterpiece of 20th century music. Absolutely beautiful...Berg somehow always managed to inject such a great level of beauty and emotion into serial works, it's unbelievable.

Check out Offertorium by Gubaidulina if you want to hear a modern and atonal work with plenty of emotion.

The final almost makes me cry. Itīs so beautiful.

[superstition2]

Quote

There we go. By the way, anyone know of a good recording of the Scriabin concerto? I've heard it before, but I'd like to own


I think that Heinrich Neuhaus recorded that concerto..
I have beautifull recording by Konstantin Scherbakov for Naxos, really exellent playing..

Scherbakov's sucks. Ashkenazy/Maazel, or the Chicago Symphony recording (I keep can't recall their names). Both blow interpretation-challenged Scherbakov back to Naxos land. (I have a few great Naxos discs, and a lot of really mediocre ones.)

[superstition2]

There are so many great concertos out there but a candidate I'm surprised no one's mentioned is the Busoni, just because it's so incredibly strong and tied together structurally (no pun intended - 3 of the movements were inspired by diff. architecture forms) that even at 70 minutes (longest ever?) it never overstays its welcome.

Busoni's concerto should have been revised.

[superstition2]

Favorites:

Rachmaninov piano concerto #4 (original or 1927)
Rachmaninov piano concerto #2
Beethoven piano concerto #5
Scriabin piano concerto
Bach concerto for 4 harpsichords
Rachmaninov piano concerto #3
Tcherepnin piano concerto #5
Prokofiev piano concerto #2 (first movement)
Poulenc organ concerto
Bach D minor harpsichord concerto


Excellent:

Rodrigo concerto de aranjuez
Tviett piano concerto #1
Saint-Saens piano concerto #2
Prokofiev piano concerto #1
Mozart piano concerto #9
Brahms piano concerto #2 (Rubinstein, Warsaw, 1960)
Tchaikovsky piano concerto #1
Mozart piano concerto #27


Very Good or Good:

Rachmaninov piano concerto #1
Beethoven piano concerto #4
Prokofiev piano concerto #2 (the rest)
Tviett piano concerto #5
Berg violin concerto
Prokofiev piano concerto #3
Saint-Seans piano concerto #5
Poulenc harpsichord concerto
Liszt, both concertos
Chopin, both concertos
Tcherepnin piano concerto #6
Mozart oboe concerto


Ho hum:

Khachaturian piano concerto
Barber piano concerto (although the central movement is nice)
Schoenberg piano concerto
Beethoven piano concerto #3
Brahms piano concerto #1
Busoni piano concerto
Poulenc piano concerto
Ravel
Saint-Saens #3
Saint-Saens #4


Ugh:

Dvorak piano concerto
MacDowell piano concerto
Schumann
Thalberg piano concerto
Prokofiev concerto #4
Bartok (all three)
Rautavaara, any piano concerto
Shostakovich #1
Shostakovich #2
Tviett piano concerto #4
obscure "Romantic Piano Concertos" on VoxBox or Hyperion

[panic]

Check out Offertorium by Gubaidulina if you want to hear a modern and atonal work with plenty of emotion.

The final almost makes me cry. Itīs so beautiful.

I went to see the Offertorium performed alongside Tchaikovsky's 5th recently. Interesting work but I thought I missed something, particularly in the incorporation of the Bach theme with notes increasingly cut off on both sides, which the pre-program lecture spent like 10 minutes on and I didn't hear an example of once in the listening. The D-flat semitonal section with the repeated, insistent bells on a D minor chord was very cool though.

[panic]

Whoops sorry, double post.

Also, I find Beethoven 4 a lot better than 5 because it's unpretentious but also original. It and the Scriabin are the only concertos I have heard that are truly "modest" in character, that don't try to say anything beyond simplicity or try to impress anyone. 5 gets a little grandiose and pretentious for me. The opening is, like, power chords, 1-4-5, and I have never cared for it; also the finale overstays its welcome IMO by taking one theme to different keys for 10 minutes. Concerto 4 seems to me almost perfection.

[apion]

Concerto 4 seems to me almost perfection.

It is perfect!

[panic]

 

I also think the Grieg concerto is overrated. The final minute or so is wonderful, but when I listen to the piece I hear nothing that in my mind would put it above, say, Scharwenka's Fourth, which although littered with ridiculous amounts of double octaves is still a party to listen to.

[superstition2]

I also think the Grieg concerto is overrated. The final minute or so is wonderful, but when I listen to the piece I hear nothing that in my mind would put it above, say, Scharwenka's Fourth, which although littered with ridiculous amounts of double octaves is still a party to listen to.

I forgot about the Grieg. Whenever I listen to the end of the Scriabin concerto it reminds me of the Grieg.

[superstition2]

The Berg Violin Concerto is simply a masterpiece of 20th century music. Absolutely beautiful...Berg somehow always managed to inject such a great level of beauty and emotion into serial works, it's unbelievable.

For me, the most powerful part of the piece is that "tuning up" sequence. It's really interesting that he was able to turn a mundane concept into something moving.

[crazy for ivan moravec]

rach 3 - exciting to play, well-written, beautiful music

brahms 2 - worth all your hard work, excellent writing, beautiful music

prokofiev 3 - show-off, fun to play

schumann am

mozart no. 21 in c major

chopin 2

beethoven 4

barber

skryabin

rachmaninoff-paganini

[zemos]

My list of piano concertos:
1. Brahms no. 2 in Bb
2. Grieg Am
3. Beethoven 3rd in Cm
4. Prokofiev no. 2 in Gm
5. Rachmaninov no. 3 in Dm
6+7. Beethoven no. 4 in G & no. 5 in Eb
8. Chopin no. 2 in Fm
9. Mozart K491 in Cm
10. Schumann Am


Come to think about it,  many piano concertos are in minor scales, especially Romantic [mozart wrote only two minor concertos (out of 27) and beethoven only one (out of 5)]. Interesting.
Tom.

[mostlyclassical]

Hello everyone.

1. Mendelssohn G minor: Innovative, short and to the point, unlike many later romantic concertos, who seem to drag on forever, won't mention names but a two very notable concertos from the same composer ('connected' to Mendelssohn through Schumann...) spring to mind.
2. Schumann: Romantic at its best
3. Beethoven 4
4. Various Mozart concertos
5. Moszkowski: amazing, not just 'virtuoso-fare' or 'salon-music'  , superior to both Brahms concertos IMHO)
6. Rach 2
7. Mendelssohn D minor
8. Beethoven 5
9. Schubert-Liszt-Wanderer fantasy: because Schubert had to be on the list
10. Others I forgot / haven't heard (perhaps Weber no.1, but not Grieg, or Brahms...  )

Special mention to Mendelssohn's Violin concerto, probably even greater than the G minor. I didn't list most of later composers, because simply I don't really like their music, but, I'm open to suggestions for a 'gentle' introductory concerto.

[sevencircles]

I went to see the Offertorium performed alongside Tchaikovsky's 5th recently. Interesting work but I thought I missed something, particularly in the incorporation of the Bach theme with notes increasingly cut off on both sides, which the pre-program lecture spent like 10 minutes on and I didn't hear an example of once in the listening. The D-flat semitonal section with the repeated, insistent bells on a D minor chord was very cool though.

Itīs very hard to comprehend at a first listen but it grows on you thatīs for sure.

I havenīt checked out the score but Gubaidulina usually leaves a lot freedom and Charles Dutoit should definately have speeded up some parts during the variations of the theme.

Offertorium deserves a better recording then that.

Who played it when you saw it?

[noesis]

1. Rachmaninoff No. 3
2. Prokofiev No. 2
3. Rachmaninoff No. 2
4. Prokofiev No. 3
5. Ravel in G (if only for the middle movement)
6. Rachmaninoff No. 1
7. Rachmaninoff No. 4
8. Beethoven No. 5
9. Beethoven No. 4
10. Shostakovich No. 2

[panic]

Who played it when you saw it?

Kurt Masur.

[abbbaga]

fun stuff.


10. Saint-Saens 4th
9. Beethoven 5th
8. Grieg
7. Chopin 2nd
6. Tchaikovsky 1st
5. Sibelius Violin Concerto in D minor
4. Rach 2
3. Rach 3
2. Beethoven 4th
1. Beethoven Violin Concerto in D

[I Love Xenakis]

Piano only, and based on personal preference:

10. Ravel Concerto in G for Left Hand Alone
9. Chopin Concerto No. 1
8. Prokofiev Concerto No. 2
7. Rachmaninov Concerto No. 4
6. Corigliano Piano Concerto (1968)
5. Barber Piano Concerto Op. 38
4. Nyman "The Piano Concerto"
3. Massenet Piano Concerto
2. Xenakis Erikhthon
1. Xenakis Synaphai

Runners up:
Ginastera Piano Concerto No. 2
Rautavaara Piano Concerto No. 1
Xenakis Keqrops


Overall:

10. Barber Violin Concerto
9. Bartok Viola Concerto
8. Massenet Piano Concerto
7. Dutilleux Cello Concerto
6. Xenakis Erikhthon
5. Britten Violin Concerto
4. Penderecki Capriccio for Violin and Orchestra
3. Penderecki Partita for Harpsichord and Orchestra
2. Xenakis Synaphai
1. Penderecki Cello Concerto No. 1

Runners up:
Brahms Double Concerto for Violin and Cello
Bruch Violin Concerto No. 1
Corigliano Pied Piper Fantasy

[I Love Xenakis]

bump for interesting thread

[pianoamit]

I personally LOVE both of the Chopin concerti, but I don't see them as having a place on any of these lists, simply because they are not really piano concerti per se. The orchestral writing is not really good, and the interplay between the piano and orchestra is minimal at most. My list has to be:

10. Rachmaninow f# minor
9. Shostakovich 2 (F Major)
8. Franck Symphonic Variations
7. Scriabin f# minor
6. Schumann a minor
5. Grieg a minor
4. Mozart d minor and c minor
3. Mozart G Major
2. Brahms d minor/Bb Major
1. Rachmaninow c minor/d minor

[rachmaninoffismyfav]

1. Rachmaninoff's second
2. Racmaninoff's Third
3. Grieg's Concerto in A minor
4. Shumann Concerto in A Minor
5. Rachmaninoff's First
6. Rachmaninoff's Rhapsody, although not a concerto, but it's still piano and orchestra
after that it's up for grabs for me, but I will say that Rachmaninoff belongs at the top of any list that has to do with Piano concertos

[apion]

6. Rachmaninoff's [Paganini] Rhapsody, although not a concerto ......

But it is a concerto. 

[panic]

Okay. Medtner 2 is bloody amazing. The best "night" concerto I've ever heard.
Parts of 1 and 3 are brilliant as well.

[vers la flamme]

Personally...

1 Tchaikovsky - Piano concerto no. 1 B flat mi nor
2 Rachmaninoff - Piano Concerto no. 2 C minor
3 Scriabin - Piano concerto no. 1 F sharp minor
4 Mozart - D minor concerto
5 Rachmaninoff - Piano concerto no. 3 in D minor
6 Beethoven -  Emperor concerto
7 Prokoviev - Piano concerto no. 3 in C major
8 Greig - Concerto in A minor
9 Chopin - Piano concerto no. 2 in F minor
10 Prokoviev - Piano Concerto no. 2 in G minor

[I Love Xenakis]

BUMP

[panic]

Sorta related question. What do people think are the best concertos from the Hyperion Romantic Piano Concerto series?

[countchocula]

Maybe -
1. Rach 2nd
2. Grieg A minor
3. Tchaikovsky 1st.
4. Brahms 1st
5. Liszt 2nd+Totentanz (tie)
6. Chopin 1st+2nd (tie)
7. Prokofiev 3rd
8. Mozart K.466 (D minor)
9. Mozart K.488 (A Major)
10. Beethoven 5th
...Oh forget it - this is impossible to decide!