Piano Forum

Topic: heroic polonaise fast or slow?  (Read 2234 times)

Offline jamie_liszt

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 353
heroic polonaise fast or slow?
on: December 11, 2005, 07:17:55 AM
Hey

Just wondering the majority of people on this forum how they like heroic polonaise (the main theme) fast like the young horowitz, really slow with lots of pedal. Lots of rubato ??or not much..

How do you prefer it ?

Offline stevie

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2803
Re: heroic polonaise fast or slow?
Reply #1 on: December 11, 2005, 09:49:55 AM
main theme - medium tempo, octave section - AFAP

cziffra is the model interpretation, his video of this piece is essential sheeeeeeeeeyat

Offline jamie_liszt

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 353
Re: heroic polonaise fast or slow?
Reply #2 on: December 11, 2005, 09:58:45 AM
HAHA true, i would say da ziff plays the main theme slow,

i agree on the octave section being AFAP

Horowitz plays the main theme to fast IMO.

Offline brewtality

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 923
Re: heroic polonaise fast or slow?
Reply #3 on: December 11, 2005, 11:11:30 AM
main theme - medium tempo, octave section - AFAP

cziffra is the model interpretation, his video of this piece is essential sheeeeeeeeeyat

While I agree that Cziffra is the model interpretation, imo the video isn't his best performance of this piece; it's got too much pedal, especially in the octave section (also what happens with his hair irritates me). Of course the octaves should be fast, but I don't think it works to come out of that section like a bat outta hell. I personally hardly touch the sustaining pedal during the octaves. As for the rest, I like the start slowish and not banged out, this piece is ruined by banging (see lisitsa), the tone should be full throughout. Cziffra's performance is certainly the most satisfying I've heard.

Offline jamie_liszt

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 353
Re: heroic polonaise fast or slow?
Reply #4 on: December 11, 2005, 12:05:37 PM
yeh, to much pedal in cziffras vid, and thehair LMAO

and what is with the beginning of lisitsa's polo vid, she plays it retarded, to fast and she bashes it. what...

Offline stevie

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2803
Re: heroic polonaise fast or slow?
Reply #5 on: December 11, 2005, 04:51:03 PM
yeh, to much pedal in cziffras vid, and thehair LMAO


do NOT disrespect!!!!  >:(

Offline jamie_liszt

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 353
Re: heroic polonaise fast or slow?
Reply #6 on: December 11, 2005, 08:24:58 PM
i aint, i like it , but whenever i play the piece like him i get told off

Offline rohansahai

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 412
Re: heroic polonaise fast or slow?
Reply #7 on: December 12, 2005, 02:41:32 AM
Answer to the original question:
Whenever in doubt, play fast !

IMHO, of course ! ;)
Waste of time -- do not read signatures.

Offline quantum

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6060
Re: heroic polonaise fast or slow?
Reply #8 on: December 22, 2005, 06:59:00 PM
Main theme: medium speed
Octaves: medium speed!!!!!!!

I think that the octave section of this wonderful piece has been too often abused as a virtuoso show off passage.  It's a dance, and the octave part is just a contrasting section.  How would you like it if you were dancing to music, and the musicians suddenly changed to an insanely fast tempo in the middle section just to make it sound virtuosic?
Made a Liszt. Need new Handel's for Soler panel & Alkan foil. Will Faure Stein on the way to pick up Mendels' sohn. Josquin get Wolfgangs Schu with Clara. Gone Chopin, I'll be Bach

Offline franzliszt2

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 979
Re: heroic polonaise fast or slow?
Reply #9 on: December 22, 2005, 10:14:14 PM
I like kissin's recording. Chopin was horrified when he heard someone playing the octaves too fast. I think it sounds better being slower, but building uo slowly to a fast tempo

Offline pita bread

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1136
Re: heroic polonaise fast or slow?
Reply #10 on: December 23, 2005, 03:50:24 AM
AFAP

Offline smatsuura

  • PS Silver Member
  • Newbie
  • ***
  • Posts: 6
Re: heroic polonaise fast or slow?
Reply #11 on: December 23, 2005, 10:02:16 AM
I like Argerich's recording best (Deutsch Gramophone). How bravely she played it! Is there anyone who likes her performance of Polonaise No.6?? That made me want to start piano lesson when I was young. Her tempo is the best ever. (for me)

Offline jamie_liszt

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 353
Re: heroic polonaise fast or slow?
Reply #12 on: December 23, 2005, 10:35:54 AM
is that the recording how she suddenly speeds up in the main part (the trills) and at the beginning she holds the loud forte chords along time, like the very first octave E's. if it is i like it.

Offline stevie

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2803
Re: heroic polonaise fast or slow?
Reply #13 on: December 23, 2005, 05:55:32 PM
I like kissin's recording. Chopin was horrified when he heard someone playing the octaves too fast. I think it sounds better being slower, but building uo slowly to a fast tempo

id like to horrify chopin   8)

Offline practicingnow

  • PS Silver Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 203
Re: heroic polonaise fast or slow?
Reply #14 on: December 24, 2005, 05:10:48 AM
Why does this piece always bring out the worst in pianists?
I think I've heard more awful performances of this piece than any other in the entire repertoire.
Personally I like Cliburn's noble performance - aristocratic, dignified, triumphant.

Offline rachellel

  • PS Silver Member
  • Newbie
  • ***
  • Posts: 17
Re: heroic polonaise fast or slow?
Reply #15 on: December 24, 2005, 12:59:56 PM
I started learning this piece when I was 13 but I found the left hand octaves to much with my small hands. Maybe I will polish up what I know and re-attempt the octave section. Martha Argerich plays this piece well, Horowitz is messy sometimes with this piece IMO.

-Merry Christmas!!

Offline BoliverAllmon

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4155
Re: heroic polonaise fast or slow?
Reply #16 on: December 24, 2005, 06:50:23 PM
Why does this piece always bring out the worst in pianists?
I think I've heard more awful performances of this piece than any other in the entire repertoire.
Personally I like Cliburn's noble performance - aristocratic, dignified, triumphant.


I agree with the VC it is a wonderful rendition.

boliver

Offline quantum

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6060
Re: heroic polonaise fast or slow?
Reply #17 on: December 25, 2005, 02:22:06 AM
Why does this piece always bring out the worst in pianists?
I think I've heard more awful performances of this piece than any other in the entire repertoire.
Personally I like Cliburn's noble performance - aristocratic, dignified, triumphant.


I think it brings out the worst in pianists because many of them have this firm belief that this piece should only be played a certain way.  They are so used to hearing it that way that anything different would be sacrilegious.  It is a shame that so may great pieces of music get lost to this one-track mindendness of certain people. 

Isn't it funny that we praise diversity in interpretation for most music, yet when it comes to certain individual pieces they must be played only this way.  The fault lies with both the critics for their unrelenting stubbornness and the pianists for not exploring the music further.  Shame on all of us!!!
Made a Liszt. Need new Handel's for Soler panel & Alkan foil. Will Faure Stein on the way to pick up Mendels' sohn. Josquin get Wolfgangs Schu with Clara. Gone Chopin, I'll be Bach

Offline alejo_90

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 272
Re: heroic polonaise fast or slow?
Reply #18 on: March 04, 2006, 07:14:06 PM
What about Emil Gilels? His interpretation is perfect IMO. I need an mp3 of it...
It's better to make your own mistakes than copy someone else's. - Vladimir Horowitz

Offline mikey6

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1406
Re: heroic polonaise fast or slow?
Reply #19 on: March 04, 2006, 11:40:50 PM
I like Katchen's
Never look at the trombones. You'll only encourage them.
Richard Strauss

Offline m

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1107
Re: heroic polonaise fast or slow?
Reply #20 on: March 09, 2006, 03:32:04 AM
How do you prefer it ?

Something like Gilels or Sofronitsky--when there is right spirit tempo does not matter.
But many folks here will disagree, it seems.

Offline PaulNaud

  • PS Silver Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 182
Re: heroic polonaise fast or slow?
Reply #21 on: March 09, 2006, 03:52:56 AM
Something like Gilels or Sofronitsky--when there is right spirit tempo does not matter.
But many folks here will disagree, it seems.
100% TRUE despite you're not answering my e-mails!!
Music soothes the savage breast.
Paul Naud

Offline m

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1107
Re: heroic polonaise fast or slow?
Reply #22 on: March 09, 2006, 04:25:38 AM
you're not answering my e-mails!!

Yeah, I know. But you should understand, besides I am incredibly busy, I realise at this point you can figure out things yourself  ;)

Offline PaulNaud

  • PS Silver Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 182
Re: heroic polonaise fast or slow?
Reply #23 on: March 09, 2006, 04:09:04 PM
Yeah, I know. But you should understand, besides I am incredibly busy, I realise at this point you can figure out things yourself  ;)
This was a short answer but at least I know now that you read my e-mails. Thanks anyway. Your former posts were really helpful and I noticed that we both like the same performers. It must be something related to the sound they create. That's why when you talk about image in piano playing you reach my understanding of the problem :)
Music soothes the savage breast.
Paul Naud

Offline theodopolis

  • PS Silver Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 111
Re: heroic polonaise fast or slow?
Reply #24 on: March 11, 2006, 02:28:21 AM
I have only one name to give you:


Josef Lhévinne



If you like Cziffra's octaves on the EMI DVD, you'll go mad for Lhévinne's.
He combines elegance and ferocity into the most perfect technique probably on record.

Thanks
Theodopolis
Does anyone else here think the opening of Liszt's 'Orage' (AdP - Suisse No.5) sounds like the Gymnopedie from Hell?

Offline infectedmushroom

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 304
Re: heroic polonaise fast or slow?
Reply #25 on: March 11, 2006, 05:02:07 PM


Edit: Oops I uploaded the wrong recording.  ;D



Here the live recording by Kissin of Heroic Polonaise:
[link removed by admin]

 

Logo light pianostreet.com - the website for classical pianists, piano teachers, students and piano music enthusiasts.

Subscribe for unlimited access

Sign up

Follow us

Piano Street Digicert