Explaining what scales are to students

[m1469]

I mean the purpose behind them and why they exist.  How do you do this ?

Thanks,

m1469

[fra ungdomsdagene]

I think that you should necessarily begin explaining the greek tetrachord the guidonian esachord the equal temperament and the leading-note and then the acoustic origins of scales or in other words the acoustical affinity between a succession of near sounds, which are natural overtones of the tonic of a given scale, ending on the same note.

https://www.greenwych.ca/natbasis.htm

Fra

[abell88]

I start my students playing scales when they are young enough to think they're fun...no explanations needed. Sorry if that's not helpful! But I don't think they're all ready for Fra U's explanation.

[fra ungdomsdagene]

I start my students playing scales when they are young enough to think they're fun...no explanations needed. Sorry if that's not helpful! But I don't think they're all ready for Fra U's explanation.

Students are ready as soon as you allow them to be ready.
There's no natural process that makes someone more ready  to know and ponder about complex subjects one day instead of the next one. Just a cultural one. In fact by saying that someone is not ready you could virtually sustain this condition of "lack-of-readiness" for all his or her life and he or she would die at 99 without having had the chance to be ready. That's the only difference between being ready or not: someone giving you the chance to consider a concept from a new point of view requiring instinct, curiosity, information and individual thinking instead of talking down to you.
That's how I couldn't get enough of french philosophy at the age of 9 or someone like Kit Armstrong could master complex subjects like abstract algebra at the age of 6, having fun while protecting himself from brainwashing attacks from all the people that love to tell you you're not ready to think for yourself so you could in the meanwhile accept their packed answers and banal explanations. Isn't after all through brainwashing and conditioning that we create ideologies of intolerance and war?
Scales can be fun even after you've considered the meaning behind it. In fact you can probably learn them only after you've considered some sort of meaning. Learning in a vacuum doesn't work; my cousin started understanding economy only when she became an active part of an economy environment but if the hours spent studying economy textbooks had been just a waste of precious time the books themselves had been a waste of even more precious trees and oxygen.

Fra

[ludwig]

hehe that is true. scales are interesting, however children usually have the attention span of maybe 30 seconds! lol. I just remember someone once said that it takes 5 minutes to get back into something once they are interrupted. Anyways, so short stories are good, like how each different scale have a different effect in major and minor, then expand on other modes and scales, such as the interval relationships in modes made it sound different, and then why blues sound so blue, and how chords made interesting harmonies... I think its just making theory fun with interesting stories that don't go over a minute, or 30seconds

[cfortunato]

I learned how to build a scale in elementary school by steps and half-steps, and found it intrinsically fascinating, and needed no explanation as to WHY.  That was ALL  that I learned about music in elementary school, and it was enough of a foundation for me to teach myself to play much later when I was a teenager.  Just teach it.

[whynot]

Lots of good answers.  I really appreciate Fra U's thoughts about readiness etc.  I will definitely keep this more in mind.

I do scales early on, and my first explanation is simply, "This is the set of notes we use for this piece.   We want to be comfortable with this group of notes in order to find our way around in the piece" etc.  A little later in study I point out that when we know the scales comfortably well, we never need to "remember" sharps and flats in any key again--they will all feel the same, and we do minor scales pretty early, too.  We build chords on each note in every key--usually what leads to this is talking about the various types of minor and why we have them, the harmonic options they offer etc.  They are always astounded by comparing major V and minor V.  I think people can understand other modes at a young age, too, but sometimes I save that for teenage years of flagging or divided interest, because modes never fail to fascinate.  Generally, I just talk through the theory of what they're playing, plus a little bit more each time. 

[abell88]

I think that you should necessarily begin explaining the greek tetrachord the guidonian esachord the equal temperament and the leading-note and then the acoustic origins of scales or in other words the acoustical affinity between a succession of near sounds, which are natural overtones of the tonic of a given scale, ending on the same note.

I'm not looking for a fight, but I'm teaching 4 year-olds to play scales, and I've yet to have one ready for all that. However, for a student who is ready -- at 4 or 6 or 15 or 37 -- by all means let them have it!

[Bob]

Just tell them a scale is a collection of notes used to make the music.  Simple.  Works for any age.

[meli]

Rather than a thorough explanation of what are scales, I agree with Bob's simple explanation, and would add that music is formed by many scale, chord and arpeggio patterns.  Apart from improving technique, you can identify what key a piece is in, improvise/compose our own, improve sight-reading, fingering etc..  I wish my teacher explained this to me years ago, I never did like scales nor had a clue why learn them, but realize now that they are helpful indeed. I guess relate it to the music pieces in imaginative ways. My teacher made the mistake of treating it as a seperate entity. I guess with those thinking adult types, maybe 

[Bob]

Also tell the student the patterns they learn in scales apply to many pieces.  They will be ready for pieces in the future that way.

If I had to do it over again, I would emphasize more that a piece is in a certain key and that a scale goes along with that.

[whynot]

Yes, I think exactly what Bob said.  Just a tiny bit more... as students get older, they do start to wonder why we have the particular scales we do, and I respond to any curiosity they have about this.  Church modes, acoustic intervals (and not), "hard" B versus "soft" B leading to sharps and flats, certain harmonies forbidden by the church etc.  Many students find all this really interesting.  Which is interesting in itself, I think. 

[m1469]

I think that you should necessarily begin explaining the greek tetrachord the guidonian esachord the equal temperament and the leading-note and then the acoustic origins of scales or in other words the acoustical affinity between a succession of near sounds, which are natural overtones of the tonic of a given scale, ending on the same note.

https://www.greenwych.ca/natbasis.htm

Fra

heh, I guess I have some reading to do 


Yeah, I have asked this question in the first place because I have been asked this question, so sometimes an explanation is indeed needed.  And, I am talking about adults too, not just youngies.  I do appreciate the more straight-forward and perhaps "simple" explanations given by whynot and Bob. 

And it's time for me to know things a little more in-depth regarding this, I am gathering.

Thanks for your replies !!
m1469 

[mschopinliszt]

I teach scales from VERY early on, and here's something truly radical:  I start with D-flat major!!!!  Pianistically, it's the easiest to play though visually...C Major is, of course.  When i have the student hold their hand up in front of them - ask them to show me the shortest finger [thumb], translating this to the keyboard topography suddenly makes sense to them.... moving parallel along the keybed in the most efficient manner.  This way, they don't seem to mind that they aren't starting with good ol' thumb:)   I make them memorize the WWHWWWH pattern right away.  Light-bulb moments all around... they can't wait to try the other 11 patterns. They're always thrilled to know there are 5 out of 12 that use the SAME fingering...

[Bob]

Yes, B Major is good too.  Same idea.  It gets the index finger fingers in the right place for groups of two's and three's.

I keep seeing the issue of time popping up.  In a traditional half an hour lesson there isn't much time to explain a lot and you want to keep the student playing as much as possible (because they think they get more out of it).  It depends on the student too of course, but a quick explanation may be all that is needed.

[rlefebvr]

Before I became a parent, I decided that when my kid would ask me a question I would not simply give  her a simple short answer. No sir, my kid was going to learn from the getgo and I would make sure I gave a detail explanation of whatever question she asked.

The result was confusion, irritation and anger. Not from the parent, but from the child for not getting the easy answer to the simple question she was looking for.

Later on, the same question would come up again, but this time she was ready and expecting a more thorough answer without it becoming a half hour lecture. and so on and so on.

Information is best given in small short doses, unless otherwise asked for.

One does not need to know how a scale works in order to play it. In fact, there is no need to know how it works unless you know how to play it.


Another example would be learning to play chess. What is the best way, Explaining to whole structure from the start and spending an eternity figuring things out. Or do you simply start by teaching the pawns and playing with only pawns on the board, then adding the Rooks, the bishops and so on. Trust me, the second way is way more economical time wise and enjoyment wise.

[johnk]

'Scale' comes from latin 'scala' which means 'ladder'. The notes of a scale are the rungs of the ladder where you can stand. If you try to stand where there isnt a rung, you fall off the ladder.

Btw, there is something 'fishy' about the ads at the bottom of this thread!

[tac-tics]

Btw, there is something 'fishy' about the ads at the bottom of this thread!

It's good to know how heavy your piano is, right?

[pizno]

Well, like , Scaling a wall.  You start at the bottom and you want to get to the top, but there are a lot of different routes to get there.  You start on the ground, and then there's a certain pattern for each route.  Route A might take you up over three black rocks, C might be an easy walk with no black rocks in the way, c# has a lot of climbing over rocks.

I just thought of that.

[johnk]

But careful - some of those black rocks are sharp! Lets just take the easy way - see?!!

[m1469]

Well, like , Scaling a wall.  You start at the bottom and you want to get to the top, but there are a lot of different routes to get there.  You start on the ground, and then there's a certain pattern for each route.  Route A might take you up over three black rocks, C might be an easy walk with no black rocks in the way, c# has a lot of climbing over rocks.

I just thought of that.

Well, I am doing some catching up here, and I just looked at this thread again.  For whatever reason, this explanation makes the most sense for me.  LOL... I wonder what that says about me ? 

Anyway, thanks people, and thanks pizno, this is a creative approach (and johnk, I like your addition)


m1469