A difference between amateur and professional practice

[rafant]

I read this long time ago: Amateurs practice until they can play well; professionals practice until they can't play bad".

I wish to remember who said that; anyway, what do you think on it?

[pianistimo]

yes.  i think someone else said that professionals really never tell you how much they ACTUALLY practice anyway.  so, we are left with several questions.  do they a) practice efficiently and less than we do  b) practice efficiently and the same as we do  c)practice efficiently and practice 10x more. 

i think the answer is c.  in between lessons, while eating, (don't go to the beach - i think that was mayla's point) entertainment is low on priorities, and they use the answering machine instead of running to the phone during a good session. 

can you imagine if they had another secret - like wearing a cap to bed that stuffs music into the brain while you sleep.  listening a lot to music must make some sort of a difference. 

[zheer]

A professional will pay so much attention to detail, and think a lot about interpretation. They will also learn the piece inside out.
    This is a true story, once Horowitz was practicing the piano, someone heard him play a passage from Chopins balad in G minor 100 times, this person asked Horowitz why do you do that, Horowitz replyd i must be able to play this piece even if the house burns down.

[lostinidlewonder]

There is a big difference between amateur practice and professional. When I studied piano while I was still in school it was easy, I could study one day, forget about it the next. Now I chose music as a career there is a lot more urgency in the musical work. What I mean is that if I do not get through x amount of bars by today I will not be ready for my future peformance or teaching appointments which means less money in the pocket which means I can't buy food and live in a house and cloth myself etc. Pushing aside income, musical study protects my reputation as a pianist. Bad playing or second rate playing doesn't do you any good. If you go give a concert or teach students you MUST make an impression or they will never come back to listen to what you have to say!

I promise this fact, I play a piece literally thousands times, for 2 years before I even think of playing it in public for performance. That is just what I personally do, I just don't think that an amature pianist has the time to devote to their music like this. Every single detail of a piece is automatic and conscious thought of individual notes is not there while I am playing but can be called upon any time I need it. Before I play anything in a big concert I will play it at many smaller gatherings, get heaps of experience playing the peice for different people. Heaps of work getting a piece to a respectful concert standard and lots of test run performances. I'm getting stressed already. I think I'll go lie down lol. 

[pizno]

It is somehow reassuring that you play something for 2 years before performing it.  I think that as amateurs we expect somehow to work on something for 2 months and be able to play it in front of people.  No wonder we often give shaky performances.  I think in general we don't give ourselves enough time with a piece.  Thanks for that.

Piz

[jamie_liszt]

 I kind of disagree, I don't think you need to do lots of practise to be good, take things slowly, practise properly, you can go have fun, go out and eat, goto the beach, take lots of breaks. You don't need to sit for 3 -6 hours practising technical exercises and repetoire, to much will just ruin your practise. Maybe thats just for me and not everyone.

But Also Maybe thats why i suck LMAO:)

[ilovemusic]

yes.  i think someone else said that professionals really never tell you how much they ACTUALLY practice anyway.  so, we are left with several questions.  do they a) practice efficiently and less than we do  b) practice efficiently and the same as we do  c)practice efficiently and practice 10x more. 

i think the answer is c.  in between lessons, while eating, (don't go to the beach - i think that was mayla's point) entertainment is low on priorities, and they use the answering machine instead of running to the phone during a good session. 

I think proffesionals practise more and more seriously, but probably not more then 4 hours per day on average. Actually, a lot of research has been done on what is called "The Acquisition of Expert Performance and Deliberate Practice".  Check Dr. K. Anders Ericsson in Stockholm for example.  For instance in the Psychological Review 3, pages 363-406 (1993) investigates "The Role of Deliberate Practise in Acquisition of Expert Performance". I found this a very interesting article.

It does a study with violist (different levels: established proffesionals, very good ones, amatures) and pianists. The results are compared with chess players, sports, typists etc. The conclusions could be somewhat conforting. If I remember correctly students that are on there way acquire the highest level seriously practise 26 hours per week on average (so 3.5 hour per day), but they do that every day (a very stable schedule). It is a little less for violists. More practise apparently results in injuries and burn-out. Established prof. only practise 14 hours or something (practise means: practise ALONE with the instrument, of course prof. still have to rehearse with orchestra, perform, etc.). Further more studies suggest that far more important to arrive at a high level is the drive and will to practise then to be a prodigies. A high level at an early stage says NOTHING of your level after 10 years. Deliberate practise is the key.

Basic conclusion:
Ten year rule: one needs to practise effectively for at least 10 year to get to the highest level (you might not be the best, but you will be very good). You need 10.000 hours of "deleberate practise" (not fooling around, full concentration). You need guidance to show you the most effective path (check the story of the Morse code operators).

To turn it around, you WILL BE ABLE TO PLAY eveything if you:
1) Get a good teacher
and
2) Practise up to 4 hours every day, until you have practised at least 10.000 hours.
(taking at least 10 year).

Hope you find this usefull.....

Regards, Joost

[pianistimo]

yes.  that's very helpful and makes one see that a dream is only an impossibility if you make it one (by skipping practice).

[timothy42b]

It is somehow reassuring that you play something for 2 years before performing it.  I think that as amateurs we expect somehow to work on something for 2 months and be able to play it in front of people.  No wonder we often give shaky performances.  I think in general we don't give ourselves enough time with a piece.  Thanks for that.

Piz

This and most of the posts make a big assumption, though it may not be obvious.

That is that a professional piano player is defined to be a solo concert pianist.

I would suggest there are many other venues available, and the practice demands may be quite different. 

For example, the recording session player will be sightreading most of the time.  So, he/she must have excellent sightreading skills, thorough knowledge of the nuances of popular styles, and nerves of steel.

The rock band keyboardist must be able to play while stoned out of his mind, fending off groupies.  So he needs an entirely different skill set.  He'll play the same book most of the time and have time to learn it - but since memory is highly "state dependent" he must practice while stoned, which is an extra expense.  Not deductible, either, been there and done that!  (just kidding)

The free lancer never knows what he'll run into, so must be highly flexible but also depends on social skills for the next gig.

Etc.  You must practice what your gig requires.  That won't be perfection of the classical literature for everybody. 

[lostinidlewonder]

I should add, on the flipside to 2 years of practice before performing a piece in public there have been occasions where I have had to get something up to standard within a few weeks. For me personally these efforts don't have long lasting effects, which means on the day of performance they are up to scratch, but ask me to play it next month without continual practice and it will be in disrepair, unlike something I have been playing for years. Pieces prepared this way for me at the moment are not played at a mastery I would have over something I've played for years. Maybe when I'm 60 lol. But this also is one part of the professional musicans career. We have to play things we haven't played before because that piece is demanded. Not all do this though.