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Topic: Knowing if notes are tied.  (Read 4644 times)

Offline acha114

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Knowing if notes are tied.
on: December 21, 2005, 10:11:50 PM
this might sound like a very stupid question, but how do you know if two notes are tied together? I've seen some pieces where two same notes are tied (curved line joining the heads of notes), and they can be played as one long note, or two notes following. Can some one explain how one interprets this?

Offline fuel925

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Re: Knowing if notes are tied.
Reply #1 on: December 21, 2005, 11:10:34 PM
this might sound like a very stupid question, but how do you know if two notes are tied together? I've seen some pieces where two same notes are tied (curved line joining the heads of notes), and they can be played as one long note, or two notes following. Can some one explain how one interprets this?
A tied note is just like you said, 2 of the same notes (and also the same pitch) connected by a curved line. To play it, you just hold the first note for the same length as 2 notes. Two notes which are the same, but a different pitch cannot be tied.

Make sure you don't mistake ties with slurs. If two different notes (or two of the same notes at different pitches) are connected with a curved line, this is called a slur, and means you must make a smooth transition from the first to the second note, i.e. play legato.

Offline acha114

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Re: Knowing if notes are tied.
Reply #2 on: December 22, 2005, 12:30:48 AM
A tied note is just like you said, 2 of the same notes (and also the same pitch) connected by a curved line. To play it, you just hold the first note for the same length as 2 notes. Two notes which are the same, but a different pitch cannot be tied.

Make sure you don't mistake ties with slurs. If two different notes (or two of the same notes at different pitches) are connected with a curved line, this is called a slur, and means you must make a smooth transition from the first to the second note, i.e. play legato.

Thanks. I'll give an example of where I saw this. In Chopin's Ballade in G minor op 23, on the first page in the Moderato section, the left hand section contains two notes of the same pitch, connected by a curved line, yet they are played as two notes. Can you explain the difference?

Offline whynot

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Re: Knowing if notes are tied.
Reply #3 on: December 22, 2005, 01:53:54 AM
Yes, this is interesting.  This is something you see in notation often enough to make you say, "What the heck?"  It's the combination of staccato marks with the ties/slurs that makes this go into its own funny category.  I would call them slurs in this situation (although the curvy line is linking matching notes), because slurs are to be smoothed over or phrased together and both notes played, which is what happens here.  You'll see this combination over changing notes, as well; it doesn't matter.  It helps a little to know that staccato actually means separated, not short, so you have two separated notes that are still supposed to sound like they belong together (you might interpret this to be a longer/gentler staccato, or make sure they're the same volume? there are different ways to make groups of notes sound like they belong together).  So, it's the staccato combined with the slur that tells you it's different from other "tie versus slur" questions.       

Offline fuel925

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Re: Knowing if notes are tied.
Reply #4 on: December 22, 2005, 12:51:14 PM
Thanks. I'll give an example of where I saw this. In Chopin's Ballade in G minor op 23, on the first page in the Moderato section, the left hand section contains two notes of the same pitch, connected by a curved line, yet they are played as two notes. Can you explain the difference?

If the notes are also staccato, then you have whats known as semi-staccato. These notes are half way between legato and staccato.
If there was no staccato present, then these notes would be tied.

Offline jamie_liszt

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Re: Knowing if notes are tied.
Reply #5 on: December 22, 2005, 01:35:12 PM
 Hungarian rhapsody no 2 , the beginning of friska, in the left hand it looks like ties but people play them like its a slur and play C# G# C# instead of C# HOLD and play G#, i dont get that.!

Offline will

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Re: Knowing if notes are tied.
Reply #6 on: December 23, 2005, 03:05:43 AM
Thanks. I'll give an example of where I saw this. In Chopin's Ballade in G minor op 23, on the first page in the Moderato section, the left hand section contains two notes of the same pitch, connected by a curved line, yet they are played as two notes. Can you explain the difference?
I don't know the exact spot you mean.
However, for notes of the same pitch: I think if the curved line is on the side of the notehead (the oval part of the note) then it is a tie, if it is on the side of the stems and tails then it is a slur.
Where is the curved line in the example you mention?

Offline quantum

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Re: Knowing if notes are tied.
Reply #7 on: December 23, 2005, 09:30:22 AM
Thanks. I'll give an example of where I saw this. In Chopin's Ballade in G minor op 23, on the first page in the Moderato section, the left hand section contains two notes of the same pitch, connected by a curved line, yet they are played as two notes. Can you explain the difference?


This is called portato - held longer than staccato, but not legato.  In other words, play detached. 

Note it is possible to pedal this particular passage, many pianists do so while still keeping the portato in the finger actions.   
Made a Liszt. Need new Handel's for Soler panel & Alkan foil. Will Faure Stein on the way to pick up Mendels' sohn. Josquin get Wolfgangs Schu with Clara. Gone Chopin, I'll be Bach

Offline alzado

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Re: Knowing if notes are tied.
Reply #8 on: December 24, 2005, 06:29:54 PM
Sometimes one encounters two large chords -- even 4-note right hand chords -- with a number of ties.  This can even look confusing on the page. 

However, and this is the kicker, ONE note changes.  It is not readily apparent to the glance, and one must examine the chord carefully to see this.

In such a case, I may mark this one note that changes with a pencil, or highlighting it in some way, to avoid missing the note change when playing fairly fast.

This falls into the "potential for confusion" category that one of the other posters alluded to.

Pencil-marking my material helps me.  I suppose some players will do this, and some would never do this.

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