For all who have played Scherzo No. 2 Op. 31 by Chopin

[pet]

...Do you have any suggestions on how to play the latter half of the middle section, and the last two pages of this piece?

Just a little background:  I started to learn this piece Jan. 2005, but put it down around mid Feburary, to finish learning a Mozart Sonata, and Debussy prelude.  At this time, I probably learned all of the notes except for the last 3 pages.  I really wanted to work on it during the summer, but developed some sort of tendonitis (still not sure what it is) in my left wrist, and really couldn't begin to practice it until July.  The beginning section is good, however in the middle section, after the main theme repeats and it goes into those fast passages in the right hand (probably 3 pages before the main melody starts again), I can't seem to get a good grip on that.  I've tried to practice it slowly, and can play it fine, however, playing it up to speed doesn't come out too good.  The last two pages are ridiculous, because my fingers can't seem to play the right hand part clearly and up to speed.

This is my last piece in a recital that I will be giving in April, and my teacher is convinced that I can pull it off.  I'm not use to playing Chopin, I'm more of a Mozart/Bach type of person, and I can barely reach an octave, which could be part of the problem.  I can play unusually fast, which is the reason why my teacher picked this piece to begin with.

Any suggestions, or excersizes that helped you through this piece?

Thanks in advance

[franzliszt2]

Practice it with dotted rhythms, and syncopated rhythms. Ply 1 bar at a time.

The thing I do when I just cannot play something for some unknown reason, is put the metronome at the slowest speed, and play the passage in time with it. Do this about 20 times. Then put it up a step, and repeat the passage 20 times. It doesn;t have to be 20 times, but that works for me personally. Then dop this till you reach the speed you want. But be very very very strict, and do not speed up, or skip anything, or you will just get frustrated.

[pet]

Thanks Franz...I was beginning to think that no one played this piece, or didn't have any suggestions.  I will try the metronome trick, and actually did try it a couple of months ago, but when school began again, I never seem to have enough time.  Maybe it will be best to practice one section at a time.  I appreciate you saying to don't skip any notes, because I tend to play things faster than I am ready to (I am famous for that), and I usually learn pieces very quickly, and have them up to speed in no time.  I guess I'm going to have to take my time with this one...hey, I'll look on the bright side..I have three months, and it's not like I'm just learning the notes, it's just the tempo issue, and playing the passages clean.

Thanks again!

[forevere2]

Well I started this piece last summer at around June 2005. Basically just play those parts over and over again. Also listen to some recordings such as Stephen Kopp. He does a wonderful job on that piece, especially with the arrpegios. It just amazes me how he could play the right hand so lightly (such taht you only hear certain notes) but technically he's hitting every note.

[danyal]

I completely agree with the metronome solution. You are not going to get it right any other way. It need not be 20 on every speed, but however many times you choose it HAS to be right every single time, otherwise start over. You cannot move onto the next speed if you do not have it right on the first, let alone try and play it up to speed. And start very very slowly. And no matter how frustrated or impatient you become, do not skip stages, every single one is very important for perfection, especially with a dangerous section like this. Very easy to screw up on stage. The reason pianists very often cannot play fast well, is that they never practised it well slowly. Make sure of every note. Every phrase... and do not move on prematurely! You will get it right alot faster by practising immaculately than rushing through it.

[finn magnus]

Hey, I played that piece and I can tell you I practiced alot on the same problems as you. Go for the metronome solution, it works.

The left hand can be really tricky at the second last page. Be sure you dont get hurt there, and practice it slow.

I also had problems with some passages right after it has changed to a A-major (chord-thing) at the second/last page - Its a motiv which is repeated with some changes for each motiv. Make sure you sneak under your thumb and not lift your hand or arm there. It will only cause you to miss it.

Not sure you understand this but I tried

Its a wonderful piece. Good luck 

[pet]

Thank you for giving me some good advice!  I have to tell you, I really worked with the metronome this week on the middle section, and I believe it's working!  All have to make sure is that I don't rush and that I get every note.

finn - in the middle section (A major section) can you clarify which part you are talking about?  You can explain the right and left hand.  I believe the last page in the middle that you are talking about, repeats over and over again, and has a lot of octaves in the right hand, and a particular rolled chord in the left.  That is really the only page that I have the most trouble with, for which I think it is because I can barely reach an octave.

danyal -  agree with you that the reason why a person cannot play fast well is because they never practiced it slowly.  Me, I'm a type of person that as soon as I get the notes, I'm ready to speed...lol, until now...it has worked for me pretty well.  But I guess I will have to try another method with this piece.  And I do agree that this piece is very easy to mess up on stage.  And to make matters worse, I have  bad case of getting REALLY nervous, and...everyone knows this piece.  I hate playing popular pieces, and if I knew how popular this one was (and don't really play a lot of Chopin, that's why I didn't know), I wouldn't have wanted to play it.  It is beautiful though..

Thanks again!

[cjp_piano]

I learned this Scherzo recently, and it is crazy, but so much fun when you can do it!

Regarding the latter half of the middle section (measure 468?), I would suggest practicing JUST right hand and concentrating on the motions (gestures) you need to be able to play it fast and relaxed.  Do this just one measure at a time, but always play to the first note of the next measure. This overlapping is essential in connecting it all together. 

When your RH can play the measure comfortable, fast, relaxed, beautiful, and easy, then put your LH with it and play the measure again, playing to the next downbeat of course. 

Repeat this process with the next measure, and then when it is good, play both measures (always playing to the downbeat).  Continue . . .

When you do it this way, you don't have to play the whole section very slow and then gradually speed it up.  In fact, that may actually have a negative effect on your technique, which you can't afford to do with this piece!

Gradually ramping up the tempo with the metronome may help with just learning the notes and how it goes, but to play something fast, your hands use different gestures than playing it slow. 

You need to figure out what gestures to use to be able to play it FAST and RELAXED.  So just do a LITTLE bit at a time, but fast.

[pet]

Thanks Cjp, and a special thanks for the measure number!  Your approach is much different than the other members that posted.  Makes me think..