Keeping Fingers Limber

[pianoperfmajor]

I find that when I'm away from the piano for a period of time, say a week, it becomes more difficult to move my fingers as quickly and fluidly as before that week.  For example, scale passages in my Mozart sonata k310 are much more uneven and it's just harder to play.  Of course, the simple solution to this is to not be away from the piano for that length of time, but...

Does anyone have any exercises or tricks to keep the fingers limber while away from the piano?

[quantum]

I remember my teacher at university discussing about giving concerts away from home.  Often pianists will have a long flight to the destination and only a short time before their concert.  She said it is important to learn how to play "cold" and adapt to situations where only a little warm up time is possible. 

[pianistimo]

lately, with this broken leg, i have learned the importance of the nerves at various places in your body.  for instance, i've been using crutches and the nerves under my arms have been affecting my hand mobility (especially my rh pinky).  strangely, it is kind of numb and doesn't play well right now.

of course, my back could be kinda out, too, because of hopping on one leg so much. 

imbalance must be really bad for limber fingers.  good posture.  massage?  staying warm.  these things are probably good.  and, keeping your circulation going well.  suppose that's part of staying warm. 

[ted]

Be careful with that, Pianistimo. I produced a similar effect from using certain training apparatus. I don't know enough anatomy to be certain about nerves under the arms, but I found out the hard way that the palms of the hands are particularly vulnerable to pressure of this type. You aren't taking too much weight on the little finger side of your palm holding the crutch are you ? Cyclists sometimes get that from leaning on drop handlebars. Maybe you could make pads for yourself to cushion pressure points.

[pianistimo]

thank you so much, Ted!  i hadn't thought about the palms.  i'll conciously try to not put so much of the weight on that side of my hand, too.

[goldeagleb]

Be careful with that, Pianistimo. I produced a similar effect from using certain training apparatus. I don't know enough anatomy to be certain about nerves under the arms, but I found out the hard way that the palms of the hands are particularly vulnerable to pressure of this type. You aren't taking too much weight on the little finger side of your palm holding the crutch are you ? Cyclists sometimes get that from leaning on drop handlebars. Maybe you could make pads for yourself to cushion pressure points.

Are you talking about those grip masters that are supposed to make your fingers stronger? Do those really work? What negative effects does constant heavy pressure on the palms have on piano playing; does lifting weights emulate this detrimental pressure?

[zheer]

I think if you treat your body as though its the most delicate thing on earth, then the slightest thing could damage you. You know in some combat sport they will condition the body and the hand by smashing thick wood, anciant combat sport has proven that the mind and body is far greater than one can imagin, read some eastern philosophy.

[pianistimo]

oh.  thanks a lot, zheer!  i'm still laughing right now because basically - before this stupid broken leg i didn't really worry about sports injuries or anything.  even occasional falling never seemed to bother me.  now i feel old.  i'm going to be back on my bike but going 5 mph worrying about falling down now.  and, it's funny - but it's actually much better to be going fairly fast when you fall.  that way - you just skid a little ways in a horizontal position instead of breaking your rotator cuff just plopping over on your arm.

[gruffalo]

sorry to hear about the leg, hope you get better soon.

about the topic though, i find that i spend an hour on a certain passage say for instance the few bars at the first ritenuto section in Chopin Ballade No.1, and i do very slow practice and i dont even get on to doing it faster, then i come back an hour later and even at a medium pace i feel like i have to go back to square 1.

im talking out of inexperience here, because i have completed all my grades when i was 14, now i am 17 and those years inbetween i had a bad teacher who never taught me technique and i didnt know how to be taught so i didnt know at the time that he was bad. now with a good teacher i have been learning a few pieces like Suite Bergamasque prelude, la plus que lente and Etude no.1 (all by Debussy) and i learn them musically to a good standard but not very accurately. my piano teacher said not to worry about technique and accuracy yet because these were just for A-level Music (high school qualification in UK). so now i am learning the Ballade  and i am going to take as much time possible to learn this as i want to eventually play it quite accurately. anyone why my ability to play a passage well doesnt last for long?

[pianistimo]

this is just a guess on my part, gruffalo - but, maybe you are gradually going to be able to practice through 2-3 hours straight (sorry if this offends some people - as i think chopin said 45 minutes and then rest or something).  this type of practice helps me stay limber longer.  the reason for me is that it takes about 20 minutes for me to even 'get limber.'  i warm up - and then rotate my repertoire 1-2 and sometimes 3 times.  the more repertoire you have - the longer it takes to finish your first session of practice. 

if you want to remember things REALLY well - go back to the piano in the evening and do 3 more hours.  speed and limberness are for me - as zheer has said - a matter of just pretending you are invincible and only stopping when you have to.

make sure that you are relaxed in your playing and when you feel stress or pain - STOP for a while.  i used to feel it in my arms mostly, but now i start at the neck - relaxing and trying to keep all parts of the body relaxed.  like you are when you are walking and just naturally swinging your arms.  the hands should feel more relaxed as you practice too, and not more and more tight. 

not to brag - because i know other people do this more freqently than i do - so it's no big deal - but i can practice 6-7 hours straight (when i have the time and inclination) and  not have hand fatigue.  then again - i might do this once or twice per year - but if i did it every day - would definately break it into 3 hours in the morning and 3-4 at night with a large break in between.

olive oil is really good too.  put it on everything.  salad.  in recipies.  in place of butter on bread (dip it).  it's supposed to keep you well oiled.

[adagio1]

I live in a cold climate.   Try immersing hands in hot water..... as well I learned long ago that a simple trick of rubbing palms together vigourously helps.... I do know that with age I have lost little of the finger dexterity I achieved over some 45 years of performing.  And I don't practise as much any more.....  so get the blood moving.... hope that helps... have fun

[gruffalo]

when i dont have exams going on, i usually practice for about four hours a day (with breaks every hour but total playing time without breaks around 4 hours). and i find the same thing that i come back the next day to the piano and its not the my hands are necessarily limber but those specific phrases that i learnt wont be very good. but over time it usually works out ok but i guess it just takes me more time than others to learn.

tiredness isnt the issue anymore. i used to get back problems but my teacher sorted those out for me (it was to do with tension).

i think i will post a new topic asking how others tackle a new piece from fresh so it may help others out there and give those who already know, some new ideas.

[ted]

Pianistimo:

I thought of something else. If you cannot avoid placing constant weight on your palm, try wearing those padded gloves with finger holes weightlifters use, if necessary with a handkerchief or similar stuffed inside the palms for extra protection. I use them all the time with resistance training now and I haven't had any ulnar nerve reactions since.

goldeagleb:

I really don't know much about anatomy. However, I do know that anything putting constant pressure on the palm, especially around the wrist area is liable to interfere with nerves. No, the apparatus which caused it with me was a bullworker and, to a lesser extent, a chest expander. Wearing padded weightlifters' gloves appears to have eliminated the problem.

[jamie_liszt]

I remember my teacher at university discussing about giving concerts away from home.  Often pianists will have a long flight to the destination and only a short time before their concert.  She said it is important to learn how to play "cold" and adapt to situations where only a little warm up time is possible. 

Thats when you start off with easier pieces so you get get used to the piano and warm up.

[pianistimo]

thanks again, ted, for the good ideas.  i think i will try it because tonight my rh side of hand and pinky is still tingly (despite the avoidance of putting too much pressure on that side of the palm).

gruffalo, i know what you are talking about in terms of having to start from scratch sometimes.  this happens when i skip a day or too many hours.  suppose that ideally, for me, morning practice is the best.  and, late night.  late night sort of sets it in my brain, and early morning is when i concentrate the best.  it depends on the piece i am playing as to how long it takes for me to play it at tempo.

[gruffalo]

so is it more a time thing? because i think im slower than other people at learning technical stuff. i cant put a consistent amount of time into my playing because singing is what i do, and im trying to finish school aswell and have exams.

[pianistimo]

wow.  sounds like you're just very busy.  consistency is probably the thing, even if it is one hour every day.  that's better than five hours once a week.  sounds like you are doing the right thing.  you can lose your health in college not getting enough sleep or nutrition - so balance is better than losing it all.  just do what you can and you'll have more time when exams are passed.  i know it's hard to 'do it all.' 

[berrt]

thanks again, ted, for the good ideas.  i think i will try it because tonight my rh side of hand and pinky is still tingly (despite the avoidance of putting too much pressure on that side of the palm).

Do you use crutches which support you under the arm (shoulder cave)? Pressure on nerves at that point can have that effect too.

Berrt

[pianistimo]

i never thought of that.  i can't really change my crutch style (can't afford more crutches right now) but i can comprehend why you see so many people with modified crutches to suit their taste.  more padding and such.  usually by the end of the day, my underarms are sore, too.  hopefully, i'm getting closer to using my leg to stand on.  the less you use a broken limb the longer it seems to heal because using it (sparingly) helps it heal.  i thought bones held us in place, but it's more the strong tendons and ligaments that keep us going.   

very wierd to look at my left leg and then the right.  i haven't walked on the right leg for 3 months and it has a sort of flacid 'needs liposuction' look.  whereas the left leg is beefed up.  i'm ready for summer and to walk around the block more.  must get my pedal leg to work.  i can't drive or play piano and this is driving me CRAZY.

[gruffalo]

my mum has finally letting me in look into studying singing at music instead of Engineering next year so i hope i can concentrate all my efforts into music which is all i actually want to do. they are not forcing me to do engineering, but the say (which i know) that doing a music degree can end you up with a mediocre pay. i think piano is even riskier than singing in terms of finding a job, but i hope to become a singer and i am finally getting through to my parents. what ever happens, the exams that im doing this year im giving my all.

[pianoperfmajor]

my mum has finally letting me in look into studying singing at music instead of Engineering next year so i hope i can concentrate all my efforts into music which is all i actually want to do. they are not forcing me to do engineering, but the say (which i know) that doing a music degree can end you up with a mediocre pay. i think piano is even riskier than singing in terms of finding a job, but i hope to become a singer and i am finally getting through to my parents. what ever happens, the exams that im doing this year im giving my all.

Yeah, I agree with your mum.  The myriad opportunities and the pay out there for someone with an engineering degree is really quite astounding.  But for anyone with a music degree, the opportunities are limited, especially in piano performance.  I am just realizing this as a junior in piano performance, and frankly wish I had taken a different path for my college degree.

[gruffalo]

yes, but i realise that although i have a small interest in Engineering, i would be kidding myself doing it because it is just not me. i wouldnt be happy doing it. i find it stressful, whereas looking back at the 8 years singing in a choir as a kid doing stuff that would earn me thousands if i had got paid for, but i enjoyed every minute of it.

[totallyclassics]

Hey!

Just wanted to add to the crutches ordeal.  When they sent you home, after crutch training, they should have adjusted the crutches to the correct height.  When you are standing up, the crutches under your arms should be about 2-3 fingers below your armpit, and you should not have to lean forward onto them to reach the handles for you palms/hands.  You should bear weight with your arms, NOT your armpits.  There are nerves in you axillary area that can be permanently damaged.  You should NOT have sore armpits at the end of the day.  Use the strength in your arms to get you around, don't lean forward and support your weight with your armpits.   Crutches are adjustable. If they aren't working, or if they are too tall for you, you might want to go back and get re-fitted. Crutches can be adusted at the handles, and the length.  It is very important.  The nerves under your arm could be permanently damaged, which could affect your fingers.   Also, as mentioned before. You want to protect your palms as well.    It sounds like, however by your description of aching armpits, that your biggest culprit , and most threatening to your wellbeing now, is the  crutch fitting, or possibly relying on the wrong part of your body to hold you up.     Please let me know if you have any further questions.  I will try to help.

TC

[pianistimo]

dear totally classics,  thanks for your insight.  i got fitted at the hospital and checked twice at the doctor's for the right adjustments of the crutches - but, i walked around too much yesterday.  i might be trying too hard to get back mobility.  i'm not supposed to be weight bearing yet - but i'm just trying to get back a little.  usually i take a break at 6 hours - but today i feel kind of exhausted.  when i don't have muscle strength - i just sit at the computer with thefoot rest - or sit with my foot up on a pillow.  i know what you mean about doing damage by doing too much or having the wrong adjustment.  i think my problem is having patience to let it take as long as it takes to heal. 

i've been taking aspirin to thin my blood - but i don't rule out the possibility of minor stroke either.  thankfully it's just the pinky and far right side of hand that still seems numb/tingly.  am avoiding cholesterol and hoping that i will be able to exercise soon - ie stationery bicycle.

[gruffalo]

i have a friend who has had a series of operations in his leg and has been in crutches for a very long time. he wears supports and grip for his hands. if you have any questions, i can go and ask  him for advice for you.