Mazeppa

[lau]

I started learning this song 2 days ago. Any helpful hints? Anything would be great.

[klavierkonzerte]

here's a hint
 
it's not a song  it's an etude.

[fliszt]

i dont think they get the hint :p seems pretty difficult for people to call things by the right name

[etudes]

practice melody in rh  with the bass in lh without thirds running in the middle
then practice only the double thirds run hands crossing in the middble
then put it together
octave practice only 1st finger HS then 5th finger HS then 1st Finger HT then 5th Finger HT
then octave together after you get it shut off your eyes in the octave jumps and practice it!
i never play it but many of my friends play it
use 2413
the pianist that use 2424 is Kocsis i dont know if anybody else

[brahmsian]

here's a hint
 
it's not a song  it's an etude.

 

[maxy]

tsk tsk

do it 2-4 2-4 it's all about freedom of arms.  It's actually very well conceived.  Most of the time you can move only one hand at a time.

working the thirds only will not help you that much on a mechanical level, because in the action, the jumps between the octaves and the thirds are quite important.  Actually most of the big jumps are between the last third played by LH and the octave that follows in the low register. 

[musicsdarkangel]

my hint would be to practice slowly and make sure that you're relaxed the whole time.


It is easy to be tense when playing this...... which is why it's dangerous.

[lau]

After doing a little search on mazeppa on this sight, I am getting worried. Everybody says that Mazeppa is harder than la campanella. Mazeppa doesn't even seem hard to me. It seems just as hard as Fantasy impromptu if not easier. I have the first 2 pages learned. But does it just seem like this because I haven't gotten to the hard part yet?

[pita bread]

It's not particularly hard when you're at a very slow tempo and relaxed. Depending on your span, the middle section may be a beast.

[yoshiki]

It is no way that it is easier than the Fantasy impromptu!
I agree with Pita bread that it is because you only played slowly (haven't leart the whole + not up to concert standard) and once you try to play it up to speed........oh my god it will be so difficult.
La campanella is nit easy either.
If Mazeppa is a "song" that is easier than the FI, why didn't I see posts like: am I ready to learn Mazeppa while I saw tons of post asking should I learn the impromptu 
Hope to hear something from you in the auditon room 

[maxy]

After doing a little search on mazeppa on this sight, I am getting worried. Everybody says that Mazeppa is harder than la campanella. Mazeppa doesn't even seem hard to me. It seems just as hard as Fantasy impromptu if not easier. I have the first 2 pages learned. But does it just seem like this because I haven't gotten to the hard part yet?

sure...     we are all a bunch of morons.  Fantasy Impromptu is much harder than Mazeppa, but you must keep that a secret...

[pita bread]

The 2-4 2-4 for thirds makes it so much easier, they just bounce.

[mikey6]

Someone said that Liszt's 'showy' fingering is hopeless and a waste of time 
anywho, Liszt writes fingering in for a reason - he was afterall probably the greatest pianist the world has seen and knew what he was doing so I would advise his fingering.

[cherub_rocker1979]

The 2-4 2-4 for thirds makes it so much easier, they just bounce.

I use 4-2 going to 3-1 for the thirds.  I stay really close to the keys and I play them slightly detached, just as if I was using 4-2 4-2; this avoids tension and increases accuracy because this reduces the amount of movement your hands have to make.  This makes playing it faster a lot easier for me and I still get the same sound.  Pianists who have the abilily to play extraordinarily fast make these kinds of modifications all the time.  Ultimately you have to use whatever works best for YOU.

[steinwaymodeld]

After doing a little search on mazeppa on this sight, I am getting worried. Everybody says that Mazeppa is harder than la campanella. Mazeppa doesn't even seem hard to me. It seems just as hard as Fantasy impromptu if not easier. I have the first 2 pages learned. But does it just seem like this because I haven't gotten to the hard part yet?

people like u amuse me

[stevie]

people like u amuse me

jeff, are you sure you know what kind of people he is?

he can either be -

really stupid, and naive

or, pretending to be stupid and naive for CG purposes

either way, i agree, amusing.

[lau]

It is no way that it is easier than the Fantasy impromptu!
I agree with Pita bread that it is because you only played slowly (haven't leart the whole + not up to concert standard) and once you try to play it up to speed........oh my god it will be so difficult.
La campanella is nit easy either.
If Mazeppa is a "song" that is easier than the FI, why didn't I see posts like: am I ready to learn Mazeppa while I saw tons of post asking should I learn the impromptu
Hope to hear something from you in the auditon room

I actually play it up to speed. Not that hard. But is that hard part after the first 2 pages?

[systen]

Mazeppa is a great piece, but to make it sound like it should sound is quite hard I think. Playing the first two pages up to speed is quite nice already though, keep up the good work.

I also use the 4-2, 4-2 fingering for the thirds. You can really add power if you play the thirds with 4-2, 4-2 fingering imo.

People who think that Mazeppa is a "quite easy" piece are completely wrong with that. This piece is challenging and quite difficult to memorize. Though, it's fun to play and that's what piano playing is all about, right?


If you finishied this piece, I'd love to hear a recording from you of it in the audition room!

[lau]

I don't have the equipment to record my playing

[pita bread]

I don't have the equipment to record my playing

You guys all remember Thierry?

[brewtality]

I don't have the equipment to record my playing

How very convenient.

[lau]

You guys all remember Thierry?

no, I don't know. Why don't you tell me?

[viking]

I wouldnt seriously learn Mazeppa unless you are an outstanding pianist, with several competitions under your belt.  There's no point learning it unless you can play it with reasonable perfection.  However, you can always fool around with the piece.

[steinwaymodeld]

jeff, are you sure you know what kind of people he is?

he can either be -

really stupid, and naive

or, pretending to be stupid and naive for CG purposes

either way, i agree, amusing.

stupid people are funny people.

"O. i can play Mary has a little lamb variation and fur elise hands-inverted, I think I am totally qualified to play feux follet with my toes, what y'all think?"

[lau]

I wouldnt seriously learn Mazeppa unless you are an outstanding pianist, with several competitions under your belt. There's no point learning it unless you can play it with reasonable perfection. However, you can always fool around with the piece.

mazeppa shmaleppa. I can handle it. I don't understand what is so hard about it.

can somebody just tell me what is so hard about it?!?!?!  please, that's all I made this thread for and all you guys say is "I wouldn't go there if I were you"

[lisztisforkids]

mazeppa shmaleppa. I can handle it. I don't understand what is so hard about it.

can somebody just tell me what is so hard about it?!?!?!  please, that's all I made this thread for and all you guys say is "I wouldn't go there if I were you"

It is true that I play pieces that many people consider very difficult, but which I consider easy. In MY perspective, and also people play pieces were they find it easy, and me very difficult. If you find Mazeppa easy for you, than who really cares? This is just an internet forum!

[lau]

and yet the question remains unanswered

[maxy]

what question?

[steinwaymodeld]

and yet the question remains unanswered

the difficulty is roughly equal to play fantasie impromtu with your nuts.

[lau]

The question is!!!!!!!!!!!:

What makes the piece so hard?

Answer:

nothing, in my perspective. Seriously, how, how can it be hard?!?!?!?

WHAT MAKES THIS PIECE SO HARD?!?!?! more like, what makes this peice as hard as cheese.

Ah, simile. You know it.   

                                               

This is exactly what I am feeling right later.

[maul]

Considering how bad you probably play it, it's not hard at all.

[pita bread]

Considering how bad you probably play it, it's not hard at all.

HAHAHA

[I Love Xenakis]

Considering how bad you probably play it, it's not hard at all.

***!  I <3 lau, but this comment is pure comedic genius


Maybe it's your short attention span Lau?  Anyways, to actually answer your question, and to very quickly summarize, it's difficult because it requires so many different virtuostic techniques, like parallel octaves, double notes, unpianistic chords, fast arpeggios, large and difficult leaps across the keyboard and some tricky pedalling too.  Plus everything you do, you do it really fast.



 

[lau]

***! I <3 lau, but this comment is pure comedic genius


Maybe it's your short attention span Lau? Anyways, to actually answer your question, and to very quickly summarize, it's difficult because it requires so many different virtuostic techniques, like parallel octaves, double notes, unpianistic chords, fast arpeggios, large and difficult leaps across the keyboard and some tricky pedalling too. Plus everything you do, you do it really fast.

thanks, my question is finally answered!!!!

Then if I finish learning this, i guess i am a virtuoso.



 

[lau]

thats odd, this thread is in repetiore and students corner. i only put this in repetiour.
hmmm, and why did I just quote that and not even respond to it. somebody knows my password!

[lau]

what the flap! Now this thread has left the repetioure section. nilly must have moved it without having that sick "MOVED: "   thing on it.

[tompilk]

the difficulty is roughly equal to play fantasie impromtu with your nuts.

i did this at a school concert a week ago... it went down well with the crowd...

[erinf]

Is this edition of mazeppa different? you look at the score and then listen to it on you tube. theres loads missing. after the A Capriccio theres a huge sweeping motion that scales up and down (which isn't on this score) and then enters into the Allegro Patetico and theres loads missing at the ending. I don't get it. does anyone know why? i'd really appreciate it if you do.

[faulty_damper]

What edition are you referring to?  There is only one edition of Mazeppa from the Transcendental Studies.

[erinf]

are you sure theres only one? iv been listening to it on you tube and no one plays it like what the score reads theres a bit missing after the first line and the ending is different. you listen to arrau play mazeppa on you tube and tell me what you think. its completely different

[faulty_damper]

The first page of the score in this thread looks like the 2nd revision of Mazeppa, from Douze Grandes Etudes.  The Mazeppa that most people know come from the 3rd and final revision, the Transcendental Studies.  All of these revisions have their beginnings from 1826, the Etudes en douze excercices (Studies in 12 exercises), composed when Liszt was 14.  So in total, there are 3 versions of Mazeppa. 

[erinf]

oh ok. thanks thats really helpful. i don't suppose you know where i could get the score for the other versions at all?

[jlh]

The first page of the score in this thread looks like the 2nd revision of Mazeppa, from Douze Grandes Etudes.  The Mazeppa that most people know come from the 3rd and final revision, the Transcendental Studies.  All of these revisions have their beginnings from 1826, the Etudes en douze excercices (Studies in 12 exercises), composed when Liszt was 14.  So in total, there are 3 versions of Mazeppa. 

Perhaps lau is referring to the first edition of this etude published when Liszt was what, 15?  The DGE's are the most technically challenging, made for Liszt's personal use, and the TE's are his revision after noticing that at the time only a handful of pianists in the world could manage to play them...  The first edition of all these etudes are very easy by comparison.

lau, to which revision do you refer?

[erinf]

ummmm... 3? i think? which edition is the one on this site? i want the one that everyone plays on you tube, with the longer ending and the big sweeping entry after the first line. which one is that?

[faulty_damper]

The third version is No.4 from the Transcendental Studies, the one most people play.

The one available on this site looks like it is from the Douze Grandes Etudes, the second version.

There is an indication at the big sweeping entry, which the composer indicates as a cadenza, can be of the performers own choosing.  In other words, the performer can choose to introduce the work with a cadenza of his own creation, though most pianists do not bother with it.

[erinf]

thanks, but if its a cadenza why do they all play it the same if its the players choice?, and where can i get a copy of the 3rd version?

[faulty_damper]

Because most pianists do not know what the best way to introduce this piece with their own idea and the composer provides one already, hence the same one.

[erinf]

makes sense.

[faulty_damper]

The International Music Score Library Project, https://imslp.org/wiki/Main_Page, is an online library of public domain works.  You can usually find any publicly available works there.

The other option is to purchase them from your local music store.  It is most guaranteed to be in stock because of its popularity.

[erinf]

Groovy, i'll have a look for it. thanks faulty.